Barmen Found Not Guilty of Manslaughter

Degag · 12-05-2011 04:41PM #1

Mods, i presume this is now ok to discuss since the case is over? If not i apologise.

Anyhow, as the title suggests, they've been found not guilty. Personally, as a barman myself, i'm happy with the ruling. The actions of the two men were wrong though in my opinion and i suppose it gives a wake up call to all people in the profession to be alot more vigilant when serving alcohol.

Korvanica · 12-05-2011 04:43PM

Degag wrote: »

Mods, i presume this is now ok to discuss since the case is over? If not i apologise.

Anyhow, as the title suggests, they've been found not guilty. Personally, as a barman myself, i'm happy with the ruling. The actions of the two men were wrong though in my opinion and i suppose it gives a wake up call to all people in the profession to be alot more vigilant when serving alcohol.

Or, people could learn to know their bloody limits...

TheZohanS · 12-05-2011 04:46PM

Justice was....served.

Degag · 12-05-2011 04:46PM

Korvanica wrote: »

Or, people could learn to know their bloody limits...

No doubt about it.

djPSB · 12-05-2011 04:48PM

True. Perhaps, he shouldn't have served the amount of drink in question, but he didnt force the victim to drink it!!

HeisenbergBB · 12-05-2011 04:53PM

In fairness the bar tenders can only take a certain amount of responsibility. I dont think I would have served them that drink if i was in that situation but I would have felt alot of sympathy for them had they been found guilty!

Mr Freeze · 12-05-2011 04:54PM

Good. Definitely happy with the ruling.

Now time for them to return to the work and every second customer taking the pi$$ and asking for 8 shots in a pint glass. I doubt they will be in the humor for that though.

Alter-Ego · 12-05-2011 04:58PM

Is this about the incident in Hayses Bejaysus in Thurles?

Thread seems a bit ambiguous.

vetstu · 12-05-2011 04:59PM

Should never have gone to court in the first place. Just shows that Brits can't handle their drink.

immature ejaculation · 12-05-2011 05:00PM

glad they were found not guilty! anyone know where to find out info about the drinking laws in Ireland especially the legal limits of shots that can be served?

kelle · 12-05-2011 05:00PM

RIP to the victim, and my condolances to his family and friends. I have every sympathy for them, and they are most likely not happy with the result of this case but I feel that if the barpeople were found guilty of any wrongdoing then it would open floodgates absolving those who have drank excess alcohol of any wrongdoing. For instance, one might get away with drinking and driving - just blame the barpeople!

Wile E. Coyote · 12-05-2011 05:02PM

Alter-Ego wrote: »

Is this about the incident in Hayses Bejaysus in Thurles?

Thread seems a bit ambiguous.

Was there another case going on where barmen where charged with manslaughter?

EverEvolving · 12-05-2011 05:06PM

Phew, if they had been found guilty, every bar in the country would be cautious serving alcohol and very soon a night out would be too much effort to prove your sobriety when ordering alcohol.

Not that I agree with the excess of that night but adults should be aware of their limits.

My name is URL · 12-05-2011 05:06PM

Thank feck that common sense prevailed in this case. They weren't even found not guilty by the jury per se.. the jury was ordered by the judge to find the pair not guilty.

Paul.C · 12-05-2011 05:07PM

The barmen are not responsible for anything. Glad with the ruling.

If the barmen were guilty then the friends egging him on were twice as bad.
If the chap had been refused then he could have easily ordered 8 shots making out they were a round for the table and pour them into a pint glass.

Back to the "responsible" The chap was responsible for himself

DazMarz · 12-05-2011 05:07PM

Delighted. The fool who drank himself to death was responsible. Nobody else. His friends perhaps moreso than the barstaff. Surely his friends could have told him to stop? Why should the barstaff be held accountable for some eejit who felt it necessary to down a pint of spirits? Their job is to serve the customer, not to be his guardian angel and offer advice to him on how much to drink. Their lives and names have been dragged through the tabloid mud by that clown and I hope that this is the last we hear of it and that there are no appeals and whatnot. Good riddance.

Degag · 12-05-2011 05:14PM

immature ejaculation wrote: »

glad they were found not guilty! anyone know where to find out info about the drinking laws in Ireland especially the legal limits of shots that can be served?

I don't think there is any. I know that in college barmen areadvised not to serve more than doubles, but it's just a recommendation not a rule afaik.

seamus · 12-05-2011 05:24PM

As the judge quite rightly pointed out, the barmen provided the alcohol and it was a monumentally stupid thing to do, but they didn't pick up the glass and pour it down his throat.

The deceased's decision to drink the cocktail was the pivotal point in causing his own death, which means that the barmen cannot be guilty of manslaughter. This was the basis on which the judge directed the jury to find them not guilty.

Proper outcome, I reckon.

msdemena · 12-05-2011 05:29PM

The barmen were rightly cleared in this case, I know of a couple of cases around here, one a good few years ago when a man left a pub and fell over and broke his leg, he tried to sue the publican in question but he got nowhere with it and there was a case this year I think where the family of a man who left the pub and had a crash killing himself and others tried to sue, again they had no joy either.
I don't no the correct wording of the law but it is an offence to serve anyone who is noticeably drunk.

Mal-Adjusted · 12-05-2011 05:32PM

TheZohan wrote: »

Justice was....served.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR3jnW2kcUs
sorry, won't embed >:(

Liam Byrne · 12-05-2011 05:40PM

At least the guy in question was only a danger to himself, unlike most of the home-grown idiots that ruin a night out for everyone else in the vicinity by trying to be "macho".

Barmen DO have a duty of care to patrons, and far too often ignore it and still serve drunk people.....they should be prosecuted for this.

However he drank a ridiculous amount in a single drink....that's his stupidity (and Darwinism at work).....if someone asked for a 50-ounce steak and then proceeded to have a heart attack because they didn't have the cop-on to stop eating it halfway through when they were full, then it would hardly be the chef/waiter's fault.

What I'd like to see is for this case to make the average Irish person cop themselves on, but given some of the posts that were around earlier claiming "lightweight" and such, I don't hold out much hope for that.

suicide_circus · 12-05-2011 05:43PM

A rare sensible ruling from the Irish judiciary!

Mint Sauce · 12-05-2011 05:44PM

It would have caused a huge precident if they were found guilty. People whould have been trying to sue bars and probably even offies following even the most minor of drink related incidents.

The barman covered his arse by asking his manager if they could serve the drink, and the drink was allowed on the understanding that it was not going to be consumed in the fashion that it was.

QuinnC88 · 12-05-2011 05:45PM

Should of never went to court, stupid decision to give the man that much spirit, but what a clown he was to down it off!

Degag · 12-05-2011 06:18PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Barmen DO have a duty of care to patrons, and far too often ignore it and still serve drunk people.....they should be prosecuted for this.

I disagree with this. Unless the person is an obvious danger to himself and others, he should be served away. I've no bother going out and getting pissed and having a few more than i should like 99% of other people. I can still walk out the door on my own accord, call a taxi, open the door and fall into bed. Point is most people are grand when drunk.

Sunnyisland · 12-05-2011 06:25PM

The right verdict, But some sort of guidelines need to be brought in and enforced.

Chinasea · 12-05-2011 06:27PM

I think it is very sad and it was totally WRONG for the bar men to serve up such a cocktail.

I suspect that there was a bit of we'll show this silly English lad a lesson, and perhaps he might have been naively showing off to his mates (??), when in fact the poor naive fella was just caught up in the whole deal of being in Ireland and lashing into the Guinness and the Drink that we so pride ourselves on, and unfortunately he lost the run of himself.

chimpo85 · 12-05-2011 06:27PM

When did this happen? Im living in UK and havent heard about it.

Ive worked in bars for years back home and by the sounds of things its a good result.

As a barman you cant completely ignore your patrons, obviously you'll not serve someone who is falling around and an annoyance but I have and always will keep an eye on people who are going way overboard. I wont tell them to stop drinking but I'll stop serving them if I think its going to lead to something negative.

In this case it seems the lad drank way too much. If you're old enough to drink, you're old enough to know the effects of alcohol poisoning and downing too much of something all in one go.

I live in Newcastle at the moment. I know the measures are smaller but you can buy 3 treble vodkas and red bull for £5 here... some of the states that people get themselves into are just ridiculous...that and 16yrs could get served here....disaster waiting to happen in my opinion...

whydoibother? · 12-05-2011 06:34PM

I think it's a very disappointing decision for two reasons.

Firstly, a person who has been drinking a lot already isn't in a position to assess whether they can have more or not. The barman, as the sober one, is.

Secondly, the bar have an incentive to sell more alcohol. This should be tempered by putting more responsibility on them.

Incidentally, I don't buy for a second that the barman thought it would be shared. Anytime I've shared anything with anyone, we've asked for additional straws, forks, plates, whatever. Why on earth would anyone ask for that many shots in a single pint glass to share. You'd ask for less shots in more glasses, if you were planning on dividing them between people.

slavetothegrind · 12-05-2011 06:35PM

Degag wrote: »

I disagree with this. Unless the person is an obvious danger to himself and others, he should be served away. I've no bother going out and getting pissed and having a few more than i should like 99% of other people. I can still walk out the door on my own accord, call a taxi, open the door and fall into bed. Point is most people are grand when drunk.

i think he means drunk as in too drunk, barely standing not capable of minding himself drunk.
not happy drunk still hold a conversation drunk.

the only good that may come out of the sadness of the death of that chap is an awareness on both sides of the bar of the danger associated with rediculous overindulgence in spirits.

glad the lads weren't convicted of manslaughter, professional negligence maybe but not manslaughter.

OhMeOhMy · 12-05-2011 06:37PM

I think every bar is going to be more cautious anyway. The case was the first in Ireland under new legislation. The judge directed the jury to find the men not guilty. I think he was trying to send a message that this **** is now being taken seriously, but the judge could see that the men may not have been fully aware of the implications under law of their actions

Barmen Found Not Guilty of Manslaughter

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