America=Nazi Germany- Mick Wallace

Einhard · 04-05-2011 11:50PM #1

I know that there is a fairly vicious undercurent of anti-Americanism amongst the intellegensia, and other elements of the Left in Ireland, and in Europe in general, but generally speaking, it is expressed diplomatically, and through equivocation, rather than just expressed openly.

Tonight Mick Wallace brought it right out into the open. Over the past few days, there have been attempts in certain quarters of the Irish media, and politics, to portray the killing of Osama bin Laden as a great wrong, as another dark mark against America. This reaction wasn't all that surprising.

However, a few moments ago on Vincent Brown, Mick Wallace stated openly, that the actions of Nazi Germany as a superpower, weren't any different to those of America. This is a shocking allegation, and betrays the deep hatred of America that festers in certain sectors of Irish and European thought. It's despicable, and offensive.

America is far from perfect. Her actions in South America in the 70s and 80s were outrageous; her intervention in SE Asia no better. However, in comparison to every other superpower through history, America has been a relative model of probity. After WWII, as the USSR hoovered up the shattered remains of Eastern Europe, and incorporated then within her grim empire, America not only withdrew from the West, but encouraged growth and both economic and democratic development through Marshall Aid. At the same time, America was establishing the basis for a free and democratic Japan.

Indeed, after WWII, America was the sole possessor of the most potent weapon ever created. The world was, quite literaly, hers to do with as she pleased. Nothing could have stood in her way, had she chosen to turn her nuclear weapons against other countries. She did nothing. She helped Europe, and Japan. The thought of either Nazin Germany, or Soviet Russia having sole control over such a weapon is terrifying. We can be damn sure that neither power would have been hesitant in using it.

That's not even to mention the murder of at least 6 million civilians by the Nazis, the brutalisation of much of Europe, the plunder and pillage and rape that inevitably followed Blitzkreig, the supression of all dissent and forms of free speech, the destruction of democratic means...

And yet, that blathering, barely coherent, idiot of a TD equates the Nazis of Auschwitz and the death camps, with the democratic America. It's an outrageous slur, and an embarassing accusation, and as an Irish person who, whilst acknowledging the flaws of America, is damn glad of her existence, I totally repudiate Wallace's uninformed and despicable comparison. He should be ashamed of himself.

EDIT: Vindicated!!:D

Ok, so some people have claimed that I misheard what Wallace stated last night, and others have even claimed that I was telling blatant lies (moi??:D). As everyone is fallible, I thought maybe I had misheard. However, I've just watched the show again on the TV3 website, and I was correct. At the 20 minute mark, Mick Wallace states that he does not believe that:

"I don't believe the Germans were an any worse superpower than the Americans".

If anyone wants to check it themselves, the link is here:

http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne

kincsem · 04-05-2011 11:51PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvllQl5t4Ww

ShooterSF · 04-05-2011 11:55PM

There's a lot I don't like about the left and while America is not perfect it gets way too much abuse. Hopefully it was heat of the moment and he would if asked compare it to Lennon's claim to be bigger than Jesus (I'm not religious before someone starts).

The guy gets a lot of respect from me for not wearing a suit in the Dail though. I always hated our nations obsession with what people "should" wear..

kfallon · 04-05-2011 11:56PM

kincsem wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvllQl5t4Ww

I hate the 'Yore Ma' rubbish on here but I'll give you credit and a thanks) for this one

Dangerous Man · 04-05-2011 11:57PM

It was as predictable as night following day OP. People should congratulate Obama for finally tracking down Bin Laden but no - Anti-American sentiment trumps all rational thought. I was reading the letters pages in the IT and some people even complained about Americans celebrating Bin Laden's death. It's pathetic. The guy organized a terrorist attack on American soil that ended with the loss of over 2,000 lives and people aren't allowed be happy that he's dead? They have to celebrate in a more 'sombre' manner? I think I'm going to fly the stars and stripes from my window. Screw it.

Irish Wolf · 04-05-2011 11:58PM

America=Nazi Germany- Mick Wallace

America+ Mick Wallace=Nazi Germany

?

metrovelvet · 04-05-2011 11:58PM

Einhard wrote: »

I know that there is a fairly vicious undercurent of anti-Americanism amongst the intellegensia, and other elements of the Left in Ireland, and in Europe in general, but generally speaking, it is expressed diplomatically, and through equivocation, rather than just expressed openly.

Tonight Mick Wallace brought it right out into the open. Over the past few days, there have been attempts in certain quarters of the Irish media, and politics, to portray the killing of Osama bin Laden as a great wrong, as another dark mark against America. This reaction wasn't all that surprising.

However, a few moments ago on Vincent Brown, Mick Wallace stated openly, that the actions of Nazi Germany as a superpower, weren't any different to those of America. This is a shocking allegation, and betrays the deep hatred of America that festers in certain sectors of Irish and European thought. It's despicable, and offensive.

America is far from perfect. Her actions in South America in the 70s and 80s were outrageous; her intervention in SE Asia no better. However, in comparison to every other superpower through history, America has been a relative model of probity. After WWII, as the USSR hoovered up the shattered remains of Eastern Europe, and incorporated then within her grim empire, America not only withdrew from the West, but encouraged growth and both economic and democratic development through Marshall Aid. At the same time, America was establishing the basis for a free and democratic Japan.

Indeed, after WWII, America was the sole possessor of the most potent weapon ever created. The world was, quite literaly, hers to do with as she pleased. Nothing could have stood in her way, had she chosen to turn her nuclear weapons against other countries. She did nothing. She helped Europe, and Japan. The thought of either Nazin Germany, or Soviet Russia having sole control over such a weapon is terrifying. We can be damn sure that neither power would have been hesitant in using it.

That's not even to mention the murder of at least 6 million civilians by the Nazis, the brutalisation of much of Europe, the plunder and pillage and rape that inevitably followed Blitzkreig, the supression of all dissent and forms of free speech, the destruction of democratic means...

And yet, that blathering, barely coherent, idiot of a TD equates the Nazis of Auschwitz and the death camps, with the democratic America. It's an outrageous slur, and an embarassing accusation, and as an Irish person who, whilst acknowledging the flaws of America, is damn glad of her existence, I totally repudiate Wallace's uninformed and despicable comparison. He should be ashamed of himself.

Yes. Finally it's out from under the carpet.

However,if that TD genuinely believes what he said, he obviously doesnt know much about Nazi Germany, which doesn't do much to help Ireland's anti-semetic rep.

I hope tourism drops to nothing in this country because of that guy.

Logical Fallacy · 04-05-2011 11:59PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I hope tourism drops to nothing in this country because of that guy.

You don't and it won't.

Dangerous Man · 05-05-2011 12:00AM

ShooterSF wrote: »

There's a lot I don't like about the left and while America is not perfect it gets way too much abuse. Hopefully it was heat of the moment and he would if asked compare it to Lennon's claim to be bigger than Jesus (I'm not religious before someone starts).

The guy gets a lot of respect from me for not wearing a suit in the Dail though. I always hated our nations obsession with what people "should" wear..

I hate him because he doesn't wear a suit. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in one's appearance, or treating one's position with a little gravitas. He is a legislator, after all... scruffy fucker.

hotmail.com · 05-05-2011 12:00AM

Rubbish thread - Mick Wallace said nothing of the sort. The so called security expert nutcase made the point that Wallace was making America sound like Nazi Germany.

Uriel. · 05-05-2011 12:00AM

I generally like American people and have some great American friends but to be honest America, as a nation pisses me off no end.

While Mick Wallace goes a extreme in his view, America as a superpower, maybe the greatest superpower, had too much power and too much control over what it can do and get away with.

It's actions in the places you describe plus it's motives in and way of dealing with The far east in general is despicable.

Nobody stands up and says, "hold on a minute what are you doing here". Te killing of Bin Laden and the controversy surrounding this is yet another example of them doing what they want, when they want and **** everyone else.

Let's not forget, that while America harps on about nuclear weapons etc... They are the only nation in the world's history (that I know of) that has used a nuclear weapon to destroy thousands of lives in one (or two) goes. Where was the war crime tribunal there.

I am not anti-American but I do have a continuing growth of resentment against then

Dudess · 05-05-2011 12:00AM

Yeah, I don't know why it's so difficult for some* to see America for what it is: flawed, often quite significantly so, but with so much positives too.

*Both the America-hating and the America-worshipping camps.

Sisko · 05-05-2011 12:00AM

Its an extreme comment alright but all emotions aside America has a lot of scary similarities to pre war 1930's ...'nazi' germany. More so then most other developed countries.

The similarities exist in the areas of national pride/consciousness and how easily the people are manipulated, America, the best country in the world , Gods country, American heroes, pledge of allegiance - I mean I heard about the opening 15 mins of some wrestling event there just after Osama was killed , the way they went on was shocking. Its pretty mental from an outside perspective.

The mindset that they are superior to everyone else is hammered into them from a young age. If you disagree you are un-american.

Don't get me wrong, they are extremely far away from being a "nazi Germany", but they are closer than most other countries. A lot of the ingredients are there.

landsleaving · 05-05-2011 12:01AM

Yeah I suppose it was a bit of an exaggeration alright, and I would be one of those who think killing Osama was a great wrong, as you put it. I can see where he's coming from with Guantanamo and such, but it's hardly comaparable to Nazi Germany in terms of sheer evil.

On the other hand, a large nation with vast military might exercising it's perceived moral superiority over other countries - yeah, that's something of a comparison. I guess it depends what he meant, which I'm sure will never emerge from under all the drivel that will be written about this.

FlutterinBantam · 05-05-2011 12:02AM

Has form in that regard has auld Mick.

You see it's fashionable to accuse America of all kinds of wrongs.

Now like every other country they have their faults, but I for one am glad that they are there to keep the mad fcukers bent on the destruction of the West in check.

I for one am glad that the mad mullahs won't get their hands on nuclear weapons and threaten the world with a nuclear winter.

glad that a friendly country is there to defend freedom and democracy which we all value so much.

people like Wallace ,in my opinion, are myopic and foolish if they think the electorate swallow the crap he and that other ostrich Higgins regularly spout.

We are much too savvy for that auld guff.:mad:

metrovelvet · 05-05-2011 12:03AM

I lived my whole life in the US. No one ever made me kill a jew, or kill anyone for that matter.

The only death camp I ever saw was ground zero. And who did that eh?

My name is URL · 05-05-2011 12:04AM

Are you sure that's how it went down? It seemed to me like the fella resembling Donald Duck was trying to imply that Wallace held those views..

I'm open to correction though.

Even if he did say it.. why equate one illogical and stupid point made by one person, to that of the wider public's view on what happened over the last few days? It isn't exclusively an anti-American thing if somebody has a negative opinion of certain aspects of that country or its actions.

whadabouchasir · 05-05-2011 12:04AM

The cynic in me says that they're just taking this stance to be awkward and non conformist.THey'll bitch and moan about Americas foreign policy but do they want to get rid of the American multinationals in Ireland?No!Quite the opposite in fact!This is just one of many reasons why I can't take the Left wing in Ireland seriously.

themadchef · 05-05-2011 12:04AM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I hope tourism drops to nothing in this country because of that guy.

So because of some mouth piece on Vincent Browne you hope thousands of people lose their jobs? Personally, i'd be happier to see him lose his job. The fecking egit.

Corholio · 05-05-2011 12:05AM

Considering he said nothing of the sort and that the security 'expert' put it to him that it's like he's talking about Nazi Germany, this thread shouldn't last long.

Famous last words etc etc

metrovelvet · 05-05-2011 12:05AM

themadchef wrote: »

So because of some mouth piece on Vincent Browne you hope thousands of people lose their jobs? Personally, i'd be happier to see him lose his job. The fecking egit.

A lot of people think what he articulated out loud. No one who saves up all year for their miserable two weeks vacation a year needs that crap.

Vizzy · 05-05-2011 12:06AM

If Mick Wallace worried more about paying back all the money he owes to me and every other taxpayer in the country and less about foreign policy,he might earn a bit of respect.

Krusader · 05-05-2011 12:08AM

THe sooner America/China break up into smaller states the better the world will be for it

Krusader · 05-05-2011 12:09AM

Vizzy wrote: »

If Mick Wallace worried more about paying back all the money he owes to me and every other taxpayer in the country and less about foreign policy,he might earn a bit of respect.

Not apart of NAMA, he's paying his loans

Uriel. · 05-05-2011 12:10AM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Now like every other country they have their faults, but I for one am glad that they are there to keep the mad fcukers bent on the destruction of the West in check
:

But of interest (and I font know the answer to this) but do these mad ****ers" want to destroy the west, cos that's just what they want, or are the likes of 9/11 and the general hatred of the west a result of the West's and particularly America's interference with there way of life etc...

Gummy Panda · 05-05-2011 12:10AM

themadchef wrote: »

So because of some mouth piece on Vincent Browne you hope thousands of people lose their jobs? Personally, i'd be happier to see him lose his job. The fecking egit.

Don't worry!

I'll give you a job

Sierra Oscar · 05-05-2011 12:10AM

I was watching the show myself, and how you recall the events of the show is stretching the truth Einhard.

Dudess · 05-05-2011 12:14AM

metrovelvet wrote: »

However,if that TD genuinely believes what he said, he obviously doesnt know much about Nazi Germany, which doesn't do much to help Ireland's anti-semetic rep.

He's one guy and I don't understand how a person would make a connection between it and anti semitism - if anything, it's criticism of the nazis.

I hope tourism drops to nothing in this country because of that guy.

Bit extreme. Kinda along similar lines to his alleged sentiment.

I find the shooting of Bin Laden questionable - I'm not anti American though, anything but.

ShooterSF · 05-05-2011 12:15AM

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I hate it him because he doesn't wear a suit. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in one's appearance, or treating one's position with a little gravitas. He is a legislator, after all... scruffy fucker.

And I like him cause he annoys you

One can take pride in their appearance without having to wear what others want you to wear. Also legislating is done with the mind not a fancy suit.

Logical Fallacy · 05-05-2011 12:16AM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I lived my whole life in the US. No one ever made me kill a jew, or kill anyone for that matter.

The only death camp I ever saw was ground zero. And who did that eh?

Mostly Saudi Arabians with an Egyptian and a Lebanese guy.

Sisko · 05-05-2011 12:17AM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I lived my whole life in the US. No one ever made me kill a jew, or kill anyone for that matter.

The only death camp I ever saw was ground zero. And who did that eh?

Nazi germany didn't just materialize and instantly started making death camps and killing jews.

You need a population that believes they are superior to everyone else 1st, who will blindly follow the actions of a strong leader because they are angry about something. You don't have to start invading poland or making death camps to be compared to nazi germany, that was one of many aspects of it. Its important to look at how a country got to be like that and why its people let it be so.

If you argued with a 1930's german about the invasion of poland, and a 2003 american about the invasion of iraq chances are they'd come out with a lot of the same ****e. Same mindset.

If you got one of hitlers speeches and replaced all the words germans and germany with americans and america and gave it to some wrestler to rally up the crowd you can be damn sure that crowd will love every bit of it. USA USA, **** yea etc.

Look how fast you are to deflect any critical analysis of American attitudes to put blame on the evil muslims instead, was the same in 1930's german, cept with jews.

America=Nazi Germany- Mick Wallace

Comments