Cultural heritage being concreted over

Voodoo_rasher · 04-05-2011 03:30PM #1

in LImerick according to this..

http://bocktherobber.com/2011/03/obliterating-hidden-georgian-limerick/comment-page-1#comment-120334

how can this be permitted to continue? If you read this, tell somebody who will listen. If he or she is Sen. D Norris , even better. thanks

ScumLord · 04-05-2011 03:36PM

It's so important to preserve our dilapidated shitholes, they're becoming so rare these days as the rest of the world builds modern technologically sound building and structures to replace them. We can be a mucky example of how bad things can be when your using outdated buildings and technology so our bills can be ten times the cost of other countries.

prinz · 04-05-2011 03:37PM

I totally knew that there were underground vaults under some of the streets of Limerick. We should totally keep them... and do.... something with them.... a better use that we just can't put our finger on right now..

Maybe Bock could start a campaign to have something done with the dump above street level first.

DrumSteve · 04-05-2011 03:44PM

That sure is a lot of concrete.

CreepingDeath · 04-05-2011 03:51PM

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

If you read this, tell somebody who will listen. If he or she is Sen. D Norris , even better. thanks

Yes, Sen. D. Norris is very interested in holes being filled by workmen.

Voodoo_rasher · 04-05-2011 03:52PM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Yes, Sen. D. Norris is very interested in holes being filled by workmen.

i shouldn't inwardly snigger

(but i did)

pragmatic1 · 04-05-2011 03:53PM

Its the Irish way OP. Its why half the country is covered in ugly bungalows and soulless estates. Meanwhile the British preserve their buildings and their villages and towns look much better than ours.

Insect Overlord · 04-05-2011 03:54PM

The writer of that blog fails to recognise that the vaults, arches and tunnels were no longer secure enough to maintain the weight of traffic that William Street has been and will be dealing with. A similar problem was discovered a few hundred yards away on Sarsfield Street during works last year. It's one of the busiest streets in the city centre. Keeping the current structures would probably have led to the road collapsing in on itself within the foreseeable future.

Duggy747 · 04-05-2011 04:03PM

Just cover Limerick in a concrete dome, all is well then :pac:

Dravokivich · 04-05-2011 04:06PM

Limerick city has no architect, no conservation officer, no heritage officer and no archaeologist. Therefore, this decision was made by some unaccountable, ill-informed philistine.

Quoted from the article...

...I wonder if they checked with the council why this was being done.

04-05-2011 04:09PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Its the Irish way OP. Its why half the country is covered in ugly bungalows and soulless estates. Meanwhile the British preserve their buildings and their villages and towns look much better than ours.

You realise it's underground yeah? And nobody has seen them in years?

Guill · 04-05-2011 04:16PM

Besides the link, is there any concrete evidence that this is going ahead?

Dravokivich · 04-05-2011 04:21PM

Guill wrote: »

Besides the link, is there any concrete evidence that this is going ahead?

there's a video, but I'm not too convinced by how it's set...

Guill · 04-05-2011 04:25PM

This thread paved the way for alot of bad puns.

krudler · 04-05-2011 04:26PM

where are the Mole Men going to get drunk now?

admiralofthefleet · 04-05-2011 04:30PM

the whole of limerick should be covered in concrete, a lá chernobyl

Voodu Child · 04-05-2011 04:36PM

Im mortarfied that this has been allowed to happen.

pragmatic1 · 04-05-2011 04:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You realise it's underground yeah? And nobody has seen them in years?

Yes, I'm aware the article is in relation to underground structures. I just wanted to make the wider point that we dont preserve things of value in this country. I've seen people knock down really beautiful old buildings and just build an ugly bungalow in its place.

ScumLord · 04-05-2011 04:42PM

krudler wrote: »

where are the Mole Men going to get drunk now?

they can use either the new sewer system (I'm assuming Limerick has one and they haven't just blocked up their sewer system without making a new one) or use one of our many fine ghost estates.

Screaminmidget · 04-05-2011 04:44PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Yes, I'm aware the article is in relation to underground structures. I just wanted to make the wider point that we dont preserve things of value in this country. I've seen people knock down really beautiful old buildings and just build an ugly bungalow in its place.

What value do these underground structures have exactly?

ScumLord · 04-05-2011 04:52PM

Screaminmidget wrote: »

What value do these underground structures have exactly?

They're a great place to pour a load of concrete if your into watching concrete set.

Bock the Robber · 04-05-2011 07:01PM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The writer of that blog fails to recognise that the vaults, arches and tunnels were no longer secure enough to maintain the weight of traffic that William Street has been and will be dealing with. A similar problem was discovered a few hundred yards away on Sarsfield Street during works last year. It's one of the busiest streets in the city centre. Keeping the current structures would probably have led to the road collapsing in on itself within the foreseeable future.

Really? Do you have data on that?

Insect Overlord · 04-05-2011 10:15PM

Bock the Robber wrote: »

Really? Do you have data on that?

Trying to find more, but this is the best I've got for now.

http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/local-news/2049-sarsfield-street-works-spring-surprises.html

Bock the Robber · 04-05-2011 10:19PM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Trying to find more, but this is the best I've got for now.

http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/local-news/2049-sarsfield-street-works-spring-surprises.html

That appears to be a report about Sarsfield Street, and the effect of tidal water on the stability of some arches. If you look again, you'll see that the post quoted is about William Street which is above the level of the river, and unaffected by the issues mentioned in the newspaper.

You seemed fairly certain that the William Street arches are in imminent danger of collapse. What leads you to that opinion? Do you have a view on the potential mechanism of failure?

dr gonzo · 04-05-2011 10:32PM

Screaminmidget wrote: »

What value do these underground structures have exactly?

Cultural value i think is what the OP was going for. It is sad to see any part of our past get covered with concrete but assuming Insect Overlords info is correct then safety is safety or indeed progress is progress.

04-05-2011 10:34PM

Similar was done in Cork many years ago. Many of the streets here began as open channels that were arched over. Over time the arches deteriorate. At one point a section of the South Mall collapsed. This is why the arches are filled with concrete.

I think we have other things to worry about at the moment besides preserving sewers.

Insect Overlord · 04-05-2011 10:37PM

I am not privy to any information besides what's already known.

I surmised that William Street would probably suffer similar trouble to what was discovered just down the road last year. Considering the bus traffic it gets on the side that just got filled with concrete, and the plans to direct traffic from O'Connell Street up William Street from next year on, it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that there would be concerns about the structures' continued effectiveness. Re-enforcing the foundations should prevent any such trouble.

Bock the Robber · 04-05-2011 10:42PM

James -- They're not sewers. Perhaps a little further reading might be in order before dismissing them.

IO -- Arches are inherently stable, as the Romans discovered. These particular ones have stood happily for 200 years, and have carried more weight than they're currently asked to support, so I'm not quite sure what your concern is. Are you worried that the brick from which they're built is decomposing, or that the cumulative effect of traffic over the years might be having some sort of fatiguing effect on the structure?

04-05-2011 10:47PM

Bock the Robber wrote: »

James -- They're not sewers. Perhaps a little further reading might be in order before dismissing them.

IO -- Arches are inherently stable, as the Romans discovered. These particular ones have stood happily for 200 years, and have carried more weight than they're currently asked to support, so I'm not quite sure what your concern is. Are you worried that the brick from which they're built is decomposing, or that the cumulative effect of traffic over the years might be having some sort of fatiguing effect on the structure?

Arches are inherently stable- if they are Roman arches, i.e. a complete semi circle. Ellipitical arches like those pictured exert an outward thrust at their abbutments. Over time the abbutments move away from the centre of the arch and the arch can collapse. The heaviest thing these arches were made to carry was a horse and cart, there were no HGVs back then.

Do you really think they'll just leave them as is until the day they give way? Not a chance.

Bock the Robber · 04-05-2011 10:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Arches are inherently stable- if they are Roman arches, i.e. a complete semi circle. Ellipitical arches like those pictured exert an outward thrust at their abbutments. Over time the abbutments move away from the centre of the arch and the arch can collapse. The heaviest thing these arches were made to carry was a horse and cart, there were no HGVs back then.

On the contrary. Since these arches are thrusting against each other at their springings, they have a natural tendency to become stronger as more weight is added. This is a fundamental physical principle. Arches in this configuration can only fail if the material of which they're constructed crushes.

Screaminmidget · 04-05-2011 10:53PM

dr gonzo wrote: »

Cultural value i think is what the OP was going for. It is sad to see any part of our past get covered with concrete but assuming Insect Overlords info is correct then safety is safety or indeed progress is progress.

I wouldnt mind if the tunnels were open or if people even knew about them and were accessible, but the fact that they were closed and not many people cared suggests to me that they werent that significant in the first place...

Cultural heritage being concreted over

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