Can Gardai ask you where you're going?

prinz · 03-05-2011 11:07AM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It sure is. They could get themselves a decent computer system that can identify offenders and stop the 1950's approach to policing that they currently have..

Surely letting a computer do all the work would be an even more lazy form of policing? Of course a computer can't breathalyse a driver or search a car for example, can it?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0307/breaking28.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/616170.stm

http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/tabId/369/itemId/9422/Pot-luck.aspx

By the by checkpoints are used in other countries too.

Bruthal · 03-05-2011 11:20AM

yourpics wrote: »

It would be more appropriate to breathalyse you to ascertain if you are under the influence than to be asking you questions about your personal life.

So at every checkpoint, say nothing to any drivers and just breathalyse everyone. Very good. But a few quick questions will give a good indication if someone has had a few too many for driving. Im guessing you would prefer to be breathalysed at every checkpoint, rather than answer 2 or 3 simple questions.

I know a guy who slurs his speech when sober.

Most drivers wont slur their speech when sober, so its probably best to use experience and common sense rather than using a procedure based on one guy you know.

dpe · 03-05-2011 11:32AM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I have not seen the type of carry on anywhere else in the world. The checkpoint is a uniquely Irish thing.

Sadly not; Loads of countries have checkpoints; I've been stopped in Australia, Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia (Colombia and Venezuela were extreme cases, you get stopped everywhere) and South Africa. Never been stopped anywhere else in Europe apart from Ireland though, although that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

dpe · 03-05-2011 11:36AM

prinz wrote: »

True that. If they reduce the number of checkpoints they could increase the number of shíte Roadwars we sell to Sky and the likes.

A checkpoint to weed out drink/drugged drivers etc is by far more preferable to using a bucket of sand and a yardbrush to sweep the road clean after an accident.

The UK has lower per capita deaths on the road than Ireland. They don't have checkpoints.

prinz · 03-05-2011 11:36AM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I have not seen the type of carry on anywhere else in the world. The checkpoint is a uniquely Irish thing.

A lot of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Mexico most of the states in the US also operate sobriety checkpoints. Uniquely Irish it is not.

Our man in Havana · 03-05-2011 11:42AM

sobriety checkpoints

sobriety checkpoints, yes. Revenue protection checkpoints no.

prinz · 03-05-2011 11:43AM

dpe wrote: »

The UK has lower per capita deaths on the road than Ireland. They don't have checkpoints.

They also have a better major road system, and a myriad of other reasons possibly to blame. A study in the U.S. showed a 20% reduction in road deaths in states where random checkpointing was carried out.

prinz · 03-05-2011 11:43AM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

sobriety checkpoints, yes. Revenue protection checkpoints no.

Keep digging.

Dublinstiofán · 03-05-2011 11:49AM

michaelpower wrote: »

dont act the bollox with the gards and they wont act the bollox with you.

Thats not true. I was very courteous to two members of the Gards recently and they were pr1cks to me.

Our man in Havana · 03-05-2011 11:49AM

I don't care.

Revenue protection is the name of the game.

MagicSean · 03-05-2011 11:50AM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

sobriety checkpoints, yes. Revenue protection checkpoints no.

You mean VRT? That's usually done by customs.

Buceph · 03-05-2011 11:53AM

Garda: Where are you going?
Driver: For a spin.

dpe · 03-05-2011 11:57AM

prinz wrote: »

They also have a better major road system, and a myriad of other reasons possibly to blame. A study in the U.S. showed a 20% reduction in road deaths in states where random checkpointing was carried out.

And there are other studies from the US that show that saturation patrols work better than checkpoints (my point about lazy policing) - we can both play the "studies have shown" game.

As for the reasons why the UK has a lower death rate than Ireland, I can assure you that it isn't the quality of the roads (foreign car makers test on UK roads because they're so bad)! Generally speaking its a higher standard of driver education and training that accounts for it. It never ceases to amaze me that you were allowed to drive on your own with a provisional licence in this country (I understand that's just changed?).

Bruthal · 03-05-2011 12:02PM

dpe wrote: »

The UK has lower per capita deaths on the road than Ireland. They don't have checkpoints.

How you relate having checkpoints to having higher deaths is a mystery. Better roads and more motorways might be a better reason, as well as the stupid irish drivers. No qualifications needed to drive here

dpe · 03-05-2011 12:29PM

robbie7730 wrote: »

How you relate having checkpoints to having higher deaths is a mystery. Better roads and more motorways might be a better reason, as well as the stupid irish drivers. No qualifications needed to drive here

I don't. I equate it to not delivering a lower death rate (more active policing is better imho, and discriminates between offenders and random passers by). And like I said, its not true that the UK has better roads than Ireland, not anymore (in fact I'd say the quality of Irish motorways is rather better than their UK equivalents). The UK road network is falling apart.

As for the quality of Irish drivers, that's what I said isn't it? Although I think you're wrong about the no qualification thing; the law has changed.

Bruthal · 03-05-2011 12:42PM

dpe wrote: »

I don't. I equate it to not delivering a lower death rate (more active policing is better imho, and discriminates between offenders and random passers by). And like I said, its not true that the UK has better roads than Ireland, not anymore (in fact I'd say the quality of Irish motorways is rather better than their UK equivalents). The UK road network is falling apart.

As for the quality of Irish drivers, that's what I said isn't it? Although I think you're wrong about the no qualification thing; the law has changed.

Not all that wrong, the yearly death statistics are up to 2010 so far, although obviously there will be a record of deaths so far in 2011, but the new learner permit is only required in the last few weeks i think. But it is a step forward anyway with having to do a driving course.

It was a requirement here to have a full licence driver when driving on a provisional, but it was never enforced really.

I was probably misreading what you meant by the UK having no checkpoints i think. Overall, deaths are on the way down all round at least.

prinz · 03-05-2011 12:47PM

dpe wrote: »

And there are other studies from the US that show that saturation patrols work better than checkpoints (my point about lazy policing) - we can both play the "studies have shown" game.

Great. Perhaps you could share your wisdom with the authorities around the world. You can argue all you want that saturation patrols work better but I have yet to see any evidence that checkpointing has no effect whatsoever on lowering road collisions and fatalities. If you could provide that study I'd be most interested, seeing as how that is actually what you are claiming.

dpe wrote: »

As for the reasons why the UK has a lower death rate than Ireland, I can assure you that it isn't the quality of the roads (foreign car makers test on UK roads because they're so bad)! Generally speaking its a higher standard of driver education and training that accounts for it. It never ceases to amaze me that you were allowed to drive on your own with a provisional licence in this country (I understand that's just changed?).

Fantastic, so one can only wonder why you raised that issue in the first place then? The only logical conclusion one can draw is that an attempt was made to tie checkpoints and road fatalities.

dpe · 03-05-2011 01:01PM

prinz wrote: »

Great. Perhaps you could share your wisdom with the authorities around the world. You can argue all you want that saturation patrols work better but I have yet to see any evidence that checkpointing has no effect whatsoever on lowering road collisions and fatalities. If you could provide that study I'd be most interested, seeing as how that is actually what you are claiming.

Here you go:

The debate regarding saturation patrols versus checkpoints favors saturation patrols being more effective, both in terms of number of arrests and cost. The FBI compared saturation patrols vs. checkpoints in Ohio, Missouri, and Tennessee. The study showed that, “Overall, measured in arrests per hour, a dedicated saturation patrol is the most effective method of apprehending offenders.”[16] Another survey found that "States with infrequent checkpoints claimed a lack of funding and police resources for not conducting more checkpoints, preferred saturation patrols over checkpoints because they were more 'productive,' and used large number of police officers at checkpoints."[17]

For reference the studies were by the FBI:

^ Greene, Jeffrey W., 2003. Battling DUI: A Comparative Analysis of Checkpoints and Saturation Patrols. FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, 72: 1-6.
^ Fell, J.C., Ferguson, S.A., Williams, A.F., 2003. Why are sobriety checkpoints not widely adopted as an enforcement strategy in the United States? Accident Analysis and Prevention, 35: 897-902.

prinz wrote: »

Fantastic, so one can only wonder why you raised that issue in the first place then? The only logical conclusion one can draw is that an attempt was made to tie checkpoints and road fatalities.

No, my point was to tie checkpoints to lazy policing. You tied them to road fatalities. I was using the UK as an example because its clear checkpoints aren't some wonderful panacea to stopping drunk drivers.

prinz · 03-05-2011 01:09PM

dpe wrote: »

Here you go:
For reference the studies were by the FBI: .

Wonderful. Completely missed the mark but there you go, I asked for studies which showed checkpointing did not deliver lower deaths. Checkpoints are effective. Saturation patrols are also effective, then again in this country we already have patrols which are not checkpoints.

dpe wrote: »

No, my point was to tie checkpoints to lazy policing. You tied them to road fatalities..

I did, because they have been proven to lead to lower road fatalities when implemented. This is what you said..

The UK has lower per capita deaths on the road than Ireland. They don't have checkpoints.

Hinting at a direct relationship between the existence of checkpoints and levels of road deaths. Not about comparing various methods of policing.

dpe wrote: »

I was using the UK as an example because its clear checkpoints aren't some wonderful panacea to stopping drunk drivers.

Who said they were? They are effective though at reducing deaths. This thread was never about one or the other, they are not mutually exclusive concepts. Many jurisdictions combine the two, including... I know this might shock and appall, but eh here. Increase AGS numbers and funding and sure roll it out across the country. Unfortunately try that and see how many threads just like this one you get.

yourpics · 03-05-2011 03:52PM

robbie7730 wrote: »

So at every checkpoint, say nothing to any drivers and just breathalyse everyone. Very good. But a few quick questions will give a good indication if someone has had a few too many for driving. Im guessing you would prefer to be breathalysed at every checkpoint, rather than answer 2 or 3 simple questions.

Most drivers wont slur their speech when sober, so its probably best to use experience and common sense rather than using a procedure based on one guy you know.

2 or 3 simple questions is fine, but they should not be asking me my private business

Irish Fire · 03-05-2011 06:01PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope I didn't and I quote "I have had some positive experiences". So how does that make it "all" in your mathematics?

As I said earlier things don't go your way you post abuse aimed at anyone. Get a life........

Irish Fire · 03-05-2011 06:02PM

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

Thats not true. I was very courteous to two members of the Gards recently and they were pr1cks to me.

Why?

MagicSean · 03-05-2011 09:00PM

dpe wrote: »

Here you go:
For reference the studies were by the FBI:
^ Greene, Jeffrey W., 2003. Battling DUI: A Comparative Analysis of Checkpoints and Saturation Patrols. FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, 72: 1-6.

^ Fell, J.C., Ferguson, S.A., Williams, A.F., 2003. Why are sobriety checkpoints not widely adopted as an enforcement strategy in the United States? Accident Analysis and Prevention, 35: 897-902.

No, my point was to tie checkpoints to lazy policing. You tied them to road fatalities. I was using the UK as an example because its clear checkpoints aren't some wonderful panacea to stopping drunk drivers.

You're missing the other benefits of checkpoints though. Deterring criminal movement and intel gathering to name just two.

AudreyHepburn · 04-05-2011 08:46AM

k_mac wrote: »

You're missing the other benefits of checkpoints though. Deterring criminal movement and intel gathering to name just two.

A lot of people seem to missing this point, or ignoring it.

Our man in Havana · 04-05-2011 08:50AM

It is still policing from the 50's and lazy. They would be better off driving around catching criminals instead of waiting for them to come to them.

MagicSean · 04-05-2011 08:51AM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It is still policing from the 50's and lazy. They would be better off driving around catching criminaling instead of waiting for them to come to them.

Just look for the people with the signs over their heads? Or maybe start profiling, nothing wrong with that is there?

Grass between the tracks · 04-05-2011 09:03AM

Well if checkpoints are so great, how comes they stopped using them in the UK and most of Europe?

They have better tools such as ANPR, access to tax and insurance databases, intelligence databases etc that are used to good effect to catch criminals and deny them use of the roads.

I do agree with posters that say the Irish are decades behind in their policing methods.

Bruthal · 04-05-2011 11:44AM

yourpics wrote: »

2 or 3 simple questions is fine, but they should not be asking me my private business

Im not saying they should, i dont like being asked questions either, but im sure they couldnt care less where your heading, and that is a simple enough question to answer without telling them your private business. You dont even have to tell them where your actually heading if you feel thats too private really.

prinz · 04-05-2011 11:52AM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It is still policing from the 50's and lazy. They would be better off driving around catching criminals instead of waiting for them to come to them.

Unfortunately criminals don't all wear stripey tops and carry a swag bag. Refer back to the articles I referencec earlier, weapons and drugs found in vehicles during routine checkpoint stops which would probably never have been stopped otherwise. Let's just imagine a car with a boot full of explosives, in perfect working order and obeying the rules of the road. Why would that be stopped? Put the same car at a checkpoint and the driver becomes fidgety, aggressive, gets the guilty look etc. It's really akin to say x-ray machines and frisking at the airport is lazy. That they'd be better off singling out the terrorist/drug smuggler/endangered species smuggler. Simple job apparently to spot a criminal. Particularly from one moving car into another.

Grass between the tracks wrote: »

Well if checkpoints are so great, how comes they stopped using them in the UK and most of Europe?

Most of Europe still use checkpointing, both for specific operations and more generally as traffic control/surveillance.

yourpics · 04-05-2011 01:01PM

robbie7730 wrote: »

Im not saying they should, i dont like being asked questions either, but im sure they couldnt care less where your heading, and that is a simple enough question to answer without telling them your private business. You dont even have to tell them where your actually heading if you feel thats too private really.

Yes I agree, I don't mind saying where I am going but asking me my occupation and whether I am employed or unemployed is very strange!!

Can Gardai ask you where you're going?

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