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Should gay history be taught into schools?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    no. unless we teach straight history, black history, traveller history etc etc.

    Could be refuted as a poor argurment, but its my opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭Kevin Duffy


    Won't do a bit of harm. I learned all about its foundation in Thurles in 1884 and it hasn't turned me into a raging footballer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Susie_Q


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    That goes for "Women's Studies" also which, at best, is just Feminist propaganda.

    Terribly carry on, that. Imagine spreading the notion that men and women should have equal rights?! Down with that sort of thing!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    History should be taught in schools. Not gay history or black history or womens history, just regular old history.

    Leonardo da Vinci, Michaelangelo and Alexander the Great were all gay. Are we taught about them? Yes. Their sexuality had no bearing on their achievements.

    If you want to include the history of gay rights such as the Stonewall riots etc. that's a different issue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Susie_Q wrote: »
    Terribly carry on, that. Imagine spreading the notion that men and women should have equal rights?! Down with that sort of thing!

    Have you ever been exposed to the 'fun' of Women's Studies? While it isn't all bad an awful lot of it's proponents are misandrist more than anything else. They have no real interest in equality but are more concerned with bashing men at every opportunity.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭Pj!


    What nonsense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Downlinz wrote: »
    My memory is sketchy and I only did History up to junior cert but as I recall there was very little social history taught in the syllabus. I don't recall Martin Luther King, Gandhi, the KKK, womens rights, che guevara or the likes being taught in extensive detail in the syllabus.

    In primary school it was all ancient history and the junior cert focused on post 1916 Irish history, the world wars and the american revolution.

    I studied Gandhi and Womens Rights for the Junior Cert and the Martin Luther King, the KKK, Northern Irish Civil Rights, Vietnam War and the Space Race etc for the Leaving Cert in pretty extensive detail. Perhaps you jsut had a very bad history teacher? :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 reddivil


    sexuality does not have anything to do with history in my opinion. If equal rights are to truely exist than the differenciation of people based on sexuality should not even be acknowledged. gay or straight, judge the person on what he/she does not who he/she does... If you are not happy with the type of historical education your child is recieving at school try this radical approach: teach your child something yourself!!
    your child with not get an unbiast perspective on many historical topics in school. I certainly will be filling in the gaps of my childs eductaion.
    hitler bad, america good won't cut it at all!

    'history is written by the victors'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭darragh16


    Whats Gay History?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Susie_Q


    Have you ever been exposed to the 'fun' of Women's Studies? While it isn't all bad an awful lot of it's proponents are misandrist more than anything else. They have no real interest in equality but are more concerned with bashing men at every opportunity.


    I studied gender studies for 4 years in university and I never experienced misandry or male-bashing of any kind.

    I assume you must have spent many many more years studying women's issues since you claim to know more about the people that study it than I? I'd love to know the basis of your claim that women's studies is fuelled by misandry. It sounds like speculative nonsense to me.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    darragh16 wrote: »
    Whats Gay History?

    and how does it differ from straight history? Is it told with a bit more flair?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    OP - What relevance has sexuality got to do with history may I ask? For example: Napoleon is a historical figure because of his deeds and actions - not his sexuality. What relevance would his sexuality even have?

    Unless?.....................

    Say he invaded Russia because he was a 'batty boy' and he heard there were nice 'batty boys' living in Moscow. That would be different, because in such a scenario his sexuality would have been the primary motivating factor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,450 ✭✭✭Morag


    We need to teach kids about the socail changes in this country over the last 50 years.
    How times, culture and the laws were changed.
    This would encompass the change to rights for 'minority groups' with in our society.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭spiritcrusher


    Sounds more like a college course than something to be taught in schools. It's too recent and specific an area for a school subject that already has thousands of years of events that shaped the entire world to pick and choose from.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    As long as it's relevant. In social, personal and health education classes, yes, there should be attention given to the gay community, and different sexual orientations, with an emphasis on how to be safe and sensible regarding sexuality. However, teaching "gay history" for the sake of it should probably be left out. We don't teach "straight history". If there is something in history that is relevant to the gay community (i.e the gay rights movement or something), then yes. But, otherwise no. Of course we should teach children to be accepting and tolerant of all sexual orientations, but it should be done in social studies classes and in the home, not history classes.
    Obviously it would be silly to just learn off all the people were gay ever, why things like Stonewall and such aren't on the course is silly. That was a really important moment
    Downlinz wrote: »
    Gay rights seems to be the new feminism these days. Attempts for complete over-compensation to problems that aren't especially prevalent in moral society.

    The solution to an oppressed culture/race/gender/whatever is always to promote equality and never to big up the suppressed society at the expense of the oppressor.
    We are talking about the same group of people with an incredibly high suicide and self harm rate aren't we? Especially within the age groups that would be in secondary school? Homophobic attitudes are incredibly prevalent and it is so narrow minded of you to just write them off like its a few people whining.

    You are being asked for a week of JC history and maybe a short question on a pretty important historical event because we are totally ignored in every single other aspect of education at first and second level. Poor straight people. No-one ever thinks of you do they?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Susie_Q wrote: »
    I'd love to know the basis of your claim that women's studies is fuelled by misandry. It sounds like speculative nonsense to me.

    Oh please, I have known women who have graduated from 'The Centre for Women's Studies' at Trinity (name changed back around 2000 to include the word 'Gender' for PR purposes on the back of criticism) and it is without question pure radical feminist theory/propaganda. I asked one girl once had they included the later years of Erin Pizzey or had they just washed over what became of her. She said in reply: 'Who?'. Says it all really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    Susie_Q wrote: »
    Terribly carry on, that. Imagine spreading the notion that men and women should have equal rights?! Down with that sort of thing!

    Women's studies is nothing to do with equality.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭sherdydan


    As in to teach understanding and tolerance for the GLBT community?, i mean....it won't turn your kids gay, same as teaching about the Holocaust won't turn yuo Jewish, thoughts?

    what a ridiculous statement to make. The history course in this country teaches of people based on there historical merit.

    and yes, in leaving cert history, we were taught of alan turing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Have you ever been exposed to the 'fun' of Women's Studies? While it isn't all bad an awful lot of it's proponents are misandrist more than anything else. They have no real interest in equality but are more concerned with bashing men at every opportunity.

    I have yes. I'm doing a masters in equality studies and we do gender justice as a module. I don't agree with you at all that proponents of feminism or womens studies are all extreme mysandrists.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Plautus


    looksee wrote: »
    Yes of course we should have gay history taught in schools. Along with black history and disabled history and women's history and childrens' history and pacifist history and ... so on. And if you have a gay, black, disabled woman who did something significant, she should get a mention in all four sections.

    We could extend the school year, or eliminate Irish or Maths or something to accommodate it.

    Nice reductio ad absurdam. A curriculum framed around (a limited) two years of study obviously needs to contain optional components as a student's preparation cannot encompass everything. The present syllabus rotates compulsory topics and leaves the rest up to the teachers and students. There are also early modern and modern papers respectively.

    Black history and women's history are already parts of the syllabus in the form of case studies addressing themselves to the suffragette movement, women during wartime or the civil rights movement in the US. A history of antisemitism is unavoidable in treating the Holocaust. The point? Contrary to your strawman, this stuff can be taught in pure right of its significance as a social movement or phenomenon with political and other implications. Not just because someone merely happened to be a gay, disabled, black woman.

    Providing some extra components would merely enhance choice and not diminish the quality of the existing syllabus or impact negatively on other subjects. But then, you knew that nobody was suggesting sacrificing Mathematics or a by the numbers history of World War II at the altar of gay history.

    If people want to carry the tendentious suggestion that we only teach what they adjudge particularly 'relevant' to its absolute end then really, why learn about any country's political history (say) except through the prism of its relations with the United States? World's only remaining superpower, right? In the hierarchy of importance it's at number one. Ireland's pretty insignificant. Only needs to be mentioned by way of its impact on Britain and furthermore by way of Britain's impact on America.

    If you think that's outlandish, you probably don't see much point in learning about Albania's history, do you? Same principle.

    But don't get me wrong, I think that, generally, the syllabus could afford to be much, much broader. There's no real church history there (as in a history of Christianity in the West from Constantine onward), no medieval history prior to 1492, no history of Islam/the Muslim world, no history of the Far East (beyond brief mentions of Japan during WWII) and so on. I'm not saying that these should all be taught simultaneously, but merely that they could do with being considered for inclusion and possible selection by students and teachers.

    While the medieval world gets a mention on the Junior Cert. syllabus it's cursory at best with absolutely no political medieval history. I mean zero mention of even the major events, battles and state formations/state dissolutions. Instead they teach them about the component parts of a castle. That's mind-boggling.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭finnezzia




    kinda similar to this. Compartmentalising history to give everyone a shoutout might seem nice and liberal, but really it's not very progressive.


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