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Is it right to have a national DNA database to tackle crime?

  • 01-05-2011 10:48am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,895 Dave!


    I'll just quote the article from thejournal.ie:
    IT HAS BEEN reported today that a DNA database is to be set up to tackle crime in Ireland.

    The Irish Daily Mail reports that that inmates convicted of a serious offence will be required to co-operate along with those arrested for crimes that carry a sentence of five years or more.

    Those arrested for crimes punishable with a jail term of five years or more will provide samples on the proviso that they be destroyed within a few years.

    Civil liberties groups have raised concerns about a possible breach of human rights.

    The move has been previously mooted by minister for justice Alan Shatter who said that legislation to create a national DNA database was one of his top legislative priorities.

    But is it right to establish such a database in Ireland?

    Is it right to have a national DNA database to tackle crime? 249 votes

    Yes
    21% 54 votes
    No
    56% 140 votes
    Undecided
    22% 55 votes


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭ weldoninhio


    I'd go even further and have it so that anyone that is arrested has their DNA taken and held on file. If you've nothing to hide what's the problem??


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭ Einhard


    Yes, yes it is.

    What reasons are there for objection?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,866 ✭✭✭✭ MagicMarker


    You mean there isn't already?! :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,778 Pauleta


    Im fully supportive of this and would voluntarily give my finger prints. Saying that, you can get convicted of any crime but its not likely you would go to prison for too long :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 Ickle Magoo


    As long as DNA is not the only evidence used to convict with, I don't see why anyone bar the criminals would or should have an issue with it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭ Einhard


    I'd go even further and have it so that anyone that is arrested has their DNA taken and held on file. If you've nothing to hide what's the problem??

    Well hold on now, the "if you have nothing to hide...." scenarioo can be used to justify any intrusion into one's privacy by the state. Just because someone has been arrested, doesn't make them guilty of a crime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭ unknownlegend


    Are people naive enough to think it'll only be used for this purpose?

    In principle it's got merit but it'd never be ethically correct.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭ Daegerty


    No. Huge invasion of privacy. Very big brother / minority report like.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,866 ✭✭✭✭ MagicMarker


    Are people naive enough to think it'll only be used for this purpose?

    In principle it's got merit but it'd never be ethically correct.
    What other purpose would it be used for?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭ MagicSean


    Definitely. All persons given a custodial sentence should have their DNA stored for future comparison.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,383 amacachi


    As long as DNA is not the only evidence used to convict with, I don't see why anyone bar the criminals would or should have an issue with it.

    If I believed that that was at all possible I'd fully support it. Unfortunately I don't believe it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭ Bosco boy


    Daegerty wrote: »
    No. Huge invasion of privacy. Very big brother / minority report like.

    Law biding people have nothing to fear, why protect criminals and perverts?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭ Daegerty


    Those arrested for crimes punishable with a jail term of five years or more will provide samples on the proviso that they be destroyed within a few years.

    Why should you have to give a sample just for being arrested. Anyone can get arrested and not have done anything wrong

    Destroyed within a few years? The government destroys nothing. If anything it will get moved to the repository for 'destroyed' DNA samples and brought back again if ever needed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 Ickle Magoo


    amacachi wrote: »
    If I believed that that was at all possible I'd fully support it. Unfortunately I don't believe it.

    You don't believe that it's possible to set up a DNA register and have a pre-requisite that there must be accompanying evidence to procure a warrant for arrest, not just a DNA match? Really? Seems pretty straight-forward to me...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭ MagicSean


    What other purpose would it be used for?

    Some states in The US use DNA to decide on social welfare claims. If you are claiming social welfare allowance your DNA is compared to your child to ensure you are the real mother. It could go even further and identify the father if he is on the system. Imagine going down to the welfare office to collect your single parents allowance to be told "Sorry we've found the guy you slept with all that time ago. He's in Mountjoy doing 10 years. No social for you." Any database would have to be overseen by an independent body.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭ lugha


    Why object to this but not say to a fingerprint database or the extensive use of security cameras or the like?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭ Biggins


    Dave! wrote: »
    Is it right to have a national DNA database to tackle crime?
    Yes.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,866 ✭✭✭✭ MagicMarker


    k_mac wrote: »
    Some states in The US use DNA to decide on social welfare claims. If you are claiming social welfare allowance your DNA is compared to your child to ensure you are the real mother. It could go even further and identify the father if he is on the system. Imagine going down to the welfare office to collect your single parents allowance to be told "Sorry we've found the guy you slept with all that time ago. He's in Mountjoy doing 10 years. No social for you." Any database would have to be overseen by an independent body.
    How would they compare your DNA to your child when your child hasn't given a DNA sample, and how would identify the father when the child hasn't given a DNA sample?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭ Sunnyisland


    Any body convicted of serious crime & sentenced yes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭ MagicSean


    How would they compare your DNA to your child when your child hasn't given a DNA sample, and how would identify the father when the child hasn't given a DNA sample?

    They take the DNA of the mother and child to confirm that they are in fact mother and child. You don't get welfare payments unless you submit to the test.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭ unknownlegend


    What other purpose would it be used for?

    To name a few;
    Insurance company gold mine
    Genetic profiling
    Employers, schools, adoption agency selection processes
    Selection for visas for other countries/border patrol (see biometric chips which are being considered)
    Genetic/hereditary disease detection
    Mental health markers adding you to a watch list of 'unstable' people
    Various minorities who would love to get a hold of this info.
    down the line consider cloning, designer babies, and a two tiered society (super dna vs ordinary dna)
    Etc etc etc.

    This is a country where the implementation of an evoting system was an unmitigated disaster, does that inspire confidence for them to hold and protect your dna pattern?

    Edit: again in principle I think it could be good, but it isn't a matter of just lashing ahead with in an ad hoc manner.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,866 ✭✭✭✭ MagicMarker


    k_mac wrote: »
    They take the DNA of the mother and child to confirm that they are in fact mother and child. You don't get welfare payments unless you submit to the test.
    Err... not in Ireland. So what has that got to with what we're talking about?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,866 ✭✭✭✭ MagicMarker


    To name a few;
    Insurance company gold mine
    Genetic profiling
    Employers, schools, adoption agency selection processes
    Selection for visas for other countries/border patrol (see biometric chips which are being considered)
    Genetic/hereditary disease detection
    Mental health markers adding you to a watch list of 'unstable' people
    Various minorities who would love to get a hold of this info.
    down the line consider cloning, designer babies, and a two tiered society (super dna vs ordinary dna)
    Etc etc etc.

    This is a country where the implementation of an evoting system was an unmitigated disaster, does that inspire confidence for them to hold and protect your dna pattern?

    Edit: again in principle I think it could be good, but it isn't a matter of just lashing ahead with in an ad hoc manner.
    You must be mistaking this for the conspiracy theory's forum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,895 Dave!


    Biggins wrote: »
    Yes.

    Get off the fence!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭ MagicSean


    Err... not in Ireland. So what has that got to with what we're talking about?

    Someone asked what else a DNA database could be used for and I answered.

    On scanning back it appears it was actually you that asked what else a DNA database could be used for. Why ask if you didn't want an answer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭ unknownlegend


    You must be mistaking this for the conspiracy theory's forum.

    Eh, no. Just responding to your question? Thanks for that though:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 46,855 ✭✭✭✭ tayto lover


    Daegerty wrote: »
    Why should you have to give a sample just for being arrested. Anyone can get arrested and not have done anything wrong

    Destroyed within a few years? The government destroys nothing. If anything it will get moved to the repository for 'destroyed' DNA samples and brought back again if ever needed



    Wrong. A good friend of mine has made a good living out of destroying Government files. The have to destroy records after a given time, sometimes 5 years, sometimes 7.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭ Biggins


    Dave! wrote: »
    Get off the fence!

    LOL

    Yes indeed? :D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,866 ✭✭✭✭ MagicMarker


    k_mac wrote: »
    Someone asked what else a DNA database could be used for and I answered.

    On scanning back it appears it was actually you that asked what else a DNA database could be used for. Why ask if you didn't want an answer?
    My question was in relation to the OP, about a DNA database for convicted criminals and people arrested for crimes that carry a 5> year sentence. Your answer was related to maternity/paternity tests and welfare fraud. Obviously this isn't relevant when there isn't a DNA database for new born babies.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭ MagicSean


    My question was in relation to the OP, about a DNA database for convicted criminals and people arrested for crimes that carry a 5> year sentence. Your answer was related to maternity/paternity tests and welfare fraud. Obviously this isn't relevant when there isn't a DNA database for new born babies.

    A DNA database can be used for anyone not just criminals. All it would require is for the government to ammend some laws and voila, DNA for everyone.


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