What to tell a child who asks? Afterlife etc.

eco2live wrote: »

Hey all,

I am an recent Atheist but my wife is not. Today my 9 year olds best friends grandfather died suddenly. My daughter was consoling her friend with words such as "you will see him again" and "he will still be with you" etc. and it dawned on me that my daughter and her friend where getting comfort from such things.

We would all like to believe that there is an afterlife but I don't and I am firm in my own beliefs. I kind of resolved myself to the fact that I would talk to my daughter about these things when she gets a bit older. She is in a small country catholic school and made her communion last year.

My daughter still believes in Father Christmas as well and I don't see the harm in that if it brings a little magic into her life. The situation got me wondering what would I tell her when a close family member in my own family passes away? The truth is so hard to take for a child.

Any thoughts or experiences?

My little brother was asking about death and what happens after, I simply told him what different faiths and cultures believe and what I believe, parents weren't too happy about it at the time even though my mum is pretty much doest believe in any afterlife or god but still says she is a catholic.

My gut feeling is that it's harder to feed the kids the bull**** line and then retract it later on. That is, kids are hardier than most people imagine, and curiosity about death is a natural part of growing up. The Santa line is OK because most kids don't need to have it "retracted" and instead figure it out themselves. But the afterlife line may take years for them to figure it out themselves, if they figure it out at all. So you may have a tough time on your hands if you want to tell your child at 16 that you actually think there is no heaven and this is all there is.

In fact, most parents will describe to you their child getting upset about Mummy or Daddy dying and having to be told that it's not going to happen for a long, long time. This happens even if the child has been told that we all come back. So it stands to reason that kids will still pick up on the inherent uncertainty around death, no matter what bull they're fed.

Death is a natural part of life, all animals innately understand that it happens and many mammals have their own rituals around it. I don't see any reason why we should pretend to be exempt from it and protect our children from a fundamental unavoidable part of life.

You're born and then you die. The only thing that is a certainty in life. Why sugar coat it or pretend that it's something else?

Tell them that as your body fails you you feel like you're falling through a great black screaming wind toward infinite night, and then just as you hit the bottom you vanish forever and ever. Then send them to bed.

Dades wrote: »

The OP is looking for advice from a non-believer's perspective.

dead one's posts (and replies) have been deleted for being useless in the context of the thread.

can you do this in all the threads he posts in from now on :pac:

eco2live wrote: »

We would all like to believe that there is an afterlife

Speak for yourself, because I for one do not

The idea of a second eternal life to me is not appealing at any level... and on other levels the very concept of it is horrific.

I also feel it cheapens the sacrifice of those people in our history who have genuinely given their life for a cause or a person. In my eyes such sacrifice becomes meaningless if we imagine they are not giving the only life they have, but merely trading one for another. The Christians tells us for example that god "gave" us his only son. He did no such thing under the Christian system. At most he LENT us his son, for an insignificant amount of time. The Christian belief in afterlife makes meaningless the very sacrifice they themselves cherish.

It also cheapens the value of life here on this planet. Things become precious when they are rare. Those I love are precious in their rarity. Their transience is part of what makes them special. The concept of there being a second eternal life after this one reduces the worth of people in the here and now to nothing.

eco2live wrote: »

The situation got me wondering what would I tell her when a close family member in my own family passes away? The truth is so hard to take for a child.

Any thoughts or experiences?

I think you might underestimate the strength of children. They are capable of recovering from things much better than they get credit for. Their ability to deal with trauma or hardship can often put some of us to shame. When you say "the truth is hard to take for a child" I wonder if what really is being said here is "The pain of children is hard for me to bear, so I will tell them a nice lie to not just remove their pain, but my own too". I wonder, in other words, how much of it really is for the childs well being, and how much is us being selfish.

That said, I think in the scenario you envision I would have no qualms about telling the child that there is no reason on offer to think there is a 2nd life, much less an eternal one, and that a dead person really does... on the basis of everything we know.... appear to be just that: Dead.

To do anything else not only puts me at risk of the child later discovering I lied to them... which in itself is a bad thing.... but is merely postponing the grief that would be felt now when they realize it was all unsubstantiated nonsense I was feeding them.

In fact technically you could be pedantic and say it is increasing their grief, as it is possible they long recovered from the grief they did feel... and the new realization it was baseless nonsense about the after life means they will now have to... in some ways.... lose that person all over again.


Further I think as a person who is not taken in my the concepts of religion that the closest thing we have to extending our life after death is to be remembered by those who knew you. It is us that retains the memory of the lost one and makes it last. There may be some risk that lying to a child about an after life means they will not invest enough in ensuring they do that to the best of their ability. Explaining to a child that a person is gone, but lives on in them, so they should do their best to hold on to those memories is best done now… before those memories become forgotten.

In fact it is not just memories… but aspects of lost ones that I myself have endeavored to assimilate into the person I myself am. I ask myself “What would X have done or said in this situation” and try to incorporate the best of that person into who I am today and I take a little of them into everything I do.

Finally children are very impressionable and ideas and concepts learned in childhood are hard to shake in later years. If you fit the canard of god and heaven into a childs mind now… however well meaning that might be at the time… you infect them with the meme virus that is Religion. We all know how difficult it is to cause theists later in life to renounce their childhood indoctrinations. A lie told now to give temporary reprieve from pain, is a first step in a life of believing lies from those in the world of religion who are only too happy to spread them and reap the rewards of planting them in the minds of others.

Think you are absolutely right to be as sincere as possible when it comes to discussing these types of question with children. Found it hard myself to go along with all the Santa stuff with ds but did it cos I didn't want him to miss out on the magic of it all - but when I told him eventually (at 12 - and no, he really didn't already know and no he is not stupid, in fact he is very bright...) he was really devastated and kept casting it up - oh dear... :eek:

I do believe in an afterlife - I just can't believe that all that makes up a unique personality - with all the humour, and creativity, and interestingly personal insight that each person has to offer - really just goes poof!

But I really respect the sincerely held beliefs of people who don't agree with me - and would never call them 'bull****' as a few contributors did. Rational people can sincerely hold either belief.

When I was explaining death etc to ds I told him what I believe, and explained what other people feel - but did give the reasons why I came to the conclusion I did. And since I'm not that easy to convince myself, the explanation of my reasons was quite detailed and philosophical.

Interesting discussion - thanks for raising it!

^ Unless it was in a dominant religion or another meme in our supersitious culture(affected by said religion), then it would be propogated just like any of the other lies - but for that one: No.