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NFL DRAFT 2011

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Comments

  • #362
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    The Cards need a QB badly. They have the best WR in the league and if they dont get a franchise Qb then Larry may not want to hang around. If Gabbert is there at 5 they will take him.

    They have early picks in every round to address other needs. They could get Bruce Carter in the 2nd then to beef up their LB ranks and add some young pass pressure.


  • #363
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    But will Larry be willing to wait the year or two required until Gabbert gets up to an NFL standard QB? I'm sure he'd rather someone like Kolb who can start right away


  • #364
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    I simply think the price for Kolb is too high. A 1st round pick for him is too much (esp if it ends up being a top 10-12 pick)

    Im sure he wouldnt mind another losing year if Gabbert was learning the offense. Also its a division where maybe 3/4 teams will be starting a rookie QB and the other QB will have one years experience. I think Gabbert makes great sense at 5 (presuming Newton is gone)


  • #365
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    I have to agree with a lot of the suggested mocks out there and say they wont take a QB in the high rounds. Everything suggests they will take other needs like a CB, OG, DE/OLB and look to the Free agency to find an experienced QB as there will be a fair few out there. They may even use a low end pick to find a QB because I can see a fair few of them drop them.

    As feelingstressed said I think Bulger could be a good fit also.


  • #366
    TaosHum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭TaosHum


    I think a vet is a better idea for Cards becuase if they take Gabbert at 5, he will more than likely win the job ahead of Hall and Skelton. So then Gabbert faces the task of managing a team that has one of the worst offensive lines in the game. He is looking at getting pounded, probably wont finish the season and could end up like David Carr. Also I dont think Gabbert can come in right away and do a Bradford on it, as Gabbert IMO still has a long way to go in terms of his development to be a starting QB in the NFL.

    Consider also the division the Cards play. With an experienced guy like Bulger, they could focus on improving a pretty poor defense/offensive line and they could really contend for that division. Remember, the Cards only finished 2 GAMES behind the Seahwaks last season, so even though they were very poor last season, they are not far behind the other teams in that division.

    Also at 5, they will probably have the best player in the draft sitting there waiting to be picked in Patrick Peterson, who would instantly greatly improve their secondary.


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  • #367
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    I simply think the price for Kolb is too high. A 1st round pick for him is too much (esp if it ends up being a top 10-12 pick)

    Kolb is interesting. To remove complications, lets say that Kolb in his current state was in this years draft. Where do people think he would be drafted?

    Considering his ableness to step straight into an offence, and the current lockout which may restict the training of rookies, I couldn't see him being passed on by all the top 10-12 draft teams, 8 of whom need a QB. Which would make him a top-12 pick. I think if the free agency had already happened one of those teams would have already snapped him up.


  • #368
    frostie500
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭frostie500


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    I simply think the price for Kolb is too high. A 1st round pick for him is too much (esp if it ends up being a top 10-12 pick)

    I think that with the general risks of drafting a QB out of college that it is very tricky to pick a true franchise QB. This year is an example of a QB class of moderately talented players without an exceptional passer. If Luck had declared there was a clear number one but now there is a grouping of good QBs that could develop well but the teams that draft them will need to be remember the fail rate of QBs drafted high in the draft.

    I don't for a second think that Newton or Gabbert will be like JaMarcus Russel but there is the risk that they fail to adapt to the league. With that in mind why would it be too high a price to pay for Kolb if they had to give off a first round pick?

    The Cards, or whoever, would deal next years first rounder, probably in the 10-24 range for Cardinals and have a starter that they know they can build with from day one. They would have to renegotiate with Kolb but they would be able to offer a four year deal for somewhere in the region of $30-35 million and be able to be secure in the knowledge that they had a QB who has proven himself in the league.

    They would also be in a position to shore up the defence with their number 5 selection that they could use on a LB like Von Miller or a CB like Patrick Peterson. They could address two of their pressing needs and be in a great position to win their division next year and set themselves up for the next ten years all for the cost of a mid to late round pick.

    I can understand why some people are skeptical about trading away a first round pick but the fact that Kolb is 26 and has three or four years experience of the NFL should dissuade any concern. He is not a spent veteran looking for a new home, unfortunate as it is for me to say as a huge fan, like we saw with Donavon McNabb last year. Kolb is ready to lead a team and it was only for the shocking rise of Mike Vick last year that has kept Kolb from leading the Eagles. The Cardinals, or any other QB needy team, would be damn lucky to have the opportunity to take a QB like Kolb for a mid to late 2012 first rounder.


  • #369
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    feelingstressed wrote: »
    Marc Bulger to Arizona is something I think is very possible

    He won't be staying in Baltimore and he'll generate interest on the free agent market.
    Experience in the NFC West too

    If they wanted to keep young Skelton, Bulger would be a good tutor too

    i would largely agree with this but they will be on the clock this week and the phonecalls will be happening and well pressure can cause strange things


  • #370
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    Kolb is interesting. To remove complications, lets say that Kolb in his current state was in this years draft. Where do people think he would be drafted?

    Considering his ableness to step straight into an offence, and the current lockout which may restict the training of rookies, I couldn't see him being passed on by all the top 10-12 draft teams, 8 of whom need a QB. Which would make him a top-12 pick. I think if the free agency had already happened one of those teams would have already snapped him up.


    think he would go number 1...kolb ...the panthers have the need ...and i think he would lead the class at the number 1's primary needs


  • #371
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »
    I have to agree with a lot of the suggested mocks out there and say they wont take a QB in the high rounds. Everything suggests they will take other needs like a CB, OG, DE/OLB and look to the Free agency to find an experienced QB as there will be a fair few out there. They may even use a low end pick to find a QB because I can see a fair few of them drop them.

    As feelingstressed said I think Bulger could be a good fit also.

    Hard to look past Von Miller ...they are the first team picking with a huge linebacker hole and he is so pro-ready ...my number 1 on the board of the whole draft


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  • #372
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    I simply think the price for Kolb is too high. A 1st round pick for him is too much (esp if it ends up being a top 10-12 pick)

    Im sure he wouldnt mind another losing year if Gabbert was learning the offense. Also its a division where maybe 3/4 teams will be starting a rookie QB and the other QB will have one years experience. I think Gabbert makes great sense at 5 (presuming Newton is gone)

    i think the vikes are a good trade partner...they are set in a lot of positions and can probably afford the draft picks as they are closer to contention and a lot of the other QB needy teams ....interesting if JJ Watt or Cam Jordan are still on board at the 13th pick


  • #373
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    Tom_Brady wrote: »
    Could? Yes.

    Would? No.

    Whisenhunt's job isn't as secure as it was when he signed a new contract last year. He's in no position to be taking a punt on - as you call Newton - a $50 million boom or bust toss-up. Plus, if you listen to what Whisenhunt has been saying lately - talking about how difficult it is for young QBs to come in under pressure and make an impact - added to the fact that Arizona based journalists are convinced he'll draft defence as priority, I'd be shocked if they traded up. More likely they'll go after Kolb or whoever else is available already in the league. If Gabbert falls to them on draft day, they might do a double take, but no way they (or anyone if you ask me) will trade up to 1st.

    that sounds like Vonn Miller or Peterson ...i think Miller is the bigger need with a close call on the draft value of the players ...its a close call but Miller ????


  • #374
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »
    No I have and I stand by what I say. In 2008 they had a full line but even then it was full of inconsistency's and average linemen.

    But if you want to compare 2010's line here you go notice two of their starters from this year didn't play in 2008:

    Ryan Kalil Starting Centre since 2008
    Jeff Otah OT Drafted 2008 Only played 12 in 2008 13 2009 and 0 2010
    Travelle Wharton OG 2008 14 games and starts 2009 16 & 16 and 2010 9 & 9
    Jordan Gross OT 2008 16 2009 9 2010 16
    Mackenzy Bernadeau OG 2008 O 2009 16 & 7 2010 16 + 12
    Gary Williams OT joined 2009 5 games no starts 2010 16 games 11 starts

    As you can see that O-line has had it problems since 2008 so I say again 2009 through 2010 that oline has been so bad and the stats dont lie. Whether they ever return to 2008 form who knows they have changed personnel and players since then anything could happen. I still stand by what I say regardless of how far back you feel the need to show me to prove your point. The fact of the matter is in the last two years they have progressively gotten worse.



    As for Duke Simpson??? Im hoping you mean Duke Robinson who was drafted in 2009 and has yet to play. How can we gauge someone without any NFL experience?




    Where did I say I knew more than John Fox? The downfall to their line happened from 2009 onwards. Their pass protection has gone downhill since that 2009 season. For the love of reasoning get those running yards out of your head.



    Oh yeah 50+ sack and 60+ hits to the QB is comforting for any QB



    Its clear you do because you said their defense was 4th best in 2009 when they clearly werent. In rushing yards they were, as a total offensive line including pass protection they were 13th. In fact had they not been so helpful to DeAngelo im sure the 13 would have been mid 20's overall in 2009 statistically as an Oline.



    As for the the second bit in bold I cleared the "exact same personnel" above.



    No I never touched on the 2008 season. You brought that up not me. Again to make it sink in though look at the injuries and changes to the line since 2008. It all started to go wrong from 2009 onwards. Otah and Gross and Kalil are good linemen but injuries and the supporting cast dont help. Once again you are missing the point of all of this.

    You can drop back to 2007 or 2006 all you want but that offensive line has gone through problem since that 2009 season onwards and the numbers dont lie especially when it comes to protecting their QB.

    My point once again Neilster from looking at the line they had in 2009 and 2010 they got progressively worse and the line couldn't protect themselves never mind a QB. Their pass protection went from good to average to shocking in 3 seasons.

    we are both labouring the point at this stage ...in Carolina they are hopeful about Simpson if he plays in 2011 ....Williams could be jettisoned and Wharton who is solid and was injured will come back.....Bernadeu's spot is the one that in all probability will be addressed in the draft ...i think they arent so badly off as other parts of the team while you think Cam will be running for his life...their is a new coach coming in on the line so lets see

    you never spoke on the arizona idea for a QB or is a Miller or Peterson too good to pass up?


  • #375
    Peyton Manning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    neilster wrote: »
    that sounds like Vonn Miller or Peterson ...i think Miller is the bigger need with a close call on the draft value of the players ...its a close call but Miller ????

    Well personally I think that all things considered, Von Miller is the top prospect out of every player in the draft so Id go for him all day, every day ahead of Peterson. My big board would look something like:

    1. V Miller
    2. P Peterson
    3. AJ Green
    4. N Fairley
    5. M Dareus
    6. R Quinn
    7. D Bowers
    8. J Jones
    9. JJ Watt
    10. T Smith


  • #376
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    neilster wrote: »
    we are both labouring the point at this stage ...in Carolina they are hopeful about Simpson if he plays in 2011 ....Williams could be jettisoned and Wharton who is solid and was injured will come back.....Bernadeu's spot is the one that in all probability will be addressed in the draft ...i think they arent so badly off as other parts of the team while you think Cam will be running for his life...their is a new coach coming in on the line so lets see

    You go down more avenues than a Parisian Taxi driver. :D You keep avoiding the issue when a proper point is put to you on the issue. If you want bow out and call it labouring the point fair enough to each his own.

    And who the fook is Simpson? Its Duke Robinson, Hopeful or not we can't comment on his abilities as he has never played in the NFL.
    you never spoke on the arizona idea for a QB or is a Miller or Peterson too good to pass up?

    Well I gave what I think Arizona should do and you responded to it:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71880400&postcount=371


  • #377
    spiralism
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    Just around the corner now. If Denver drafts an offensive player at 2 I'll go off a large cliff. Having said that, I think we'll do one of three things:
    1.Pick Dareus at 2
    2.Send our pick to Arizona or Tennessee who need a QB and pick Fairley with their pick .
    3.Pick Peterson. (imo less likely, we need to fix the trenches first of all, we're actually not the worst at CB, especially if Perrish Cox gets out of his court case ok)


  • #378
    TaosHum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭TaosHum


    spiralism wrote: »
    Just around the corner now. If Denver drafts an offensive player at 2 I'll go off a large cliff. Having said that, I think we'll do one of three things:
    1.Pick Dareus at 2
    2.Send our pick to Arizona or Tennessee who need a QB and pick Fairley with their pick .
    3.Pick Peterson. (imo less likely, we need to fix the trenches first of all, we're actually not the worst at CB, especially if Perrish Cox gets out of his court case ok)

    Marcel Dareus all the way for me. You guys could trade out and get Fairley, but I personally would rather stick and get Dareus. Just a better and much safer prospect IMO than Fairley.

    Also you guys already have two 2nd rounders so dont really need to trade down.


  • #379
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    Tom_Brady wrote: »
    Well personally I think that all things considered, Von Miller is the top prospect out of every player in the draft so Id go for him all day, every day ahead of Peterson. My big board would look something like:

    1. V Miller
    2. P Peterson
    3. AJ Green
    4. N Fairley
    5. M Dareus
    6. R Quinn
    7. D Bowers
    8. J Jones
    9. JJ Watt
    10. T Smith

    Funny i saw a QB happy mock which whilst a bit OTT in places did have trades in it which a made some sense and reflects in a large part ur BigBoard

    1 Newton to carolina
    2 Arizona trade 5th to second via Denver picking Gabbert (along with Arizona trades 2011 first (2), 2011 second (38), and 2012 second to Denver for 2011 first (2))

    4 Bengals Green
    5 Denver picks Peterson
    6 Houston via Cleveland picks Vonn Miller (Houston trades 2011 first (11), 2011 second (42), and 2011 fifth (135) to Cleveland for 2011 first (6))
    7 San Fran goes Prince Amak.
    8 Titans gets their DT in Fairley
    9 Cowboys - Tyron Smith
    10 Redskins - Jake Locker
    11 Cleveland (via trade) - Julio Jones ..........................

    this is very close when u strip away the QBs to ur board whatu think...the wild card here is the Cards and Marc Bulger but is that planning with something you dont have yet where as this draft you can attempt ur own destiny

    Also the Locker move ...i know that Shanahan is intrigued by him but this may be a reach ...on the other hand late in the first round he mightnt get his guy ...th eother thing is Robert Quinn may be good value at this spot

    The other surprise is Mallett to the Fins at 16 ...i think this might be a surprising move but i gotta think someone is going to fall in love with that arm ...also i think Ingram is reaching a little at 16 ...there is Hunter and Leshoure and bith are very capable


  • #380
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    TaosHum wrote: »
    Marcel Dareus all the way for me. You guys could trade out and get Fairley, but I personally would rather stick and get Dareus. Just a better and much safer prospect IMO than Fairley.

    Also you guys already have two 2nd rounders so dont really need to trade down.


    i agree ...go Dareus ...Rudolph and Rahim Moore in second round solving the Tight End spot which Elway loves and further strengthening the secondary with the best safety in the draft ..

    you could even pick up a falling Curtis Brown at Corner in the third


  • #381
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »
    You go down more avenues than a Parisian Taxi driver. :D You keep avoiding the issue when a proper point is put to you on the issue. If you want bow out and call it labouring the point fair enough to each his own.

    And who the fook is Simpson? Its Duke Robinson, Hopeful or not we can't comment on his abilities as he has never played in the NFL.



    Well I gave what I think Arizona should do and you responded to it:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71880400&postcount=371

    this is an idea floated today

    Arizona trade 5th to second via Denver picking Gabbert (Arizona trades 2011 first (2), 2011 second (38), and 2012 second to Denver for 2011 first (2))

    as to Duke Robinson in the last off season he was expected to play a way into a starting spot before he went down ...that seemed to be the Carolina expectation anyway so i would stick with that ...Bernadeau is the person most talked about being cut

    never been in Paris btw .....we can go down as many avanues as possible ...u want to beat someone over the head with the thing ...that isnt going to happen ...i expect the Carolina O-Line woes to recover a lot quicker than u for the reasons discussed


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  • #382
    Justin10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭Justin10


    Will the draft be on Tv??
    Can only find a NFL Network special but thats on friday.


  • #383
    Sea Devils
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭Sea Devils


    ESPN will be showing the first round starting at 1am Friday Morning and rounds two and three on Friday Evening at 11pm.


  • #384
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    neilster wrote: »

    as to Duke Robinson in the last off season he was expected to play a way into a starting spot before he went down ...that seemed to be the Carolina expectation anyway so i would stick with that ...Bernadeau is the person most talked about being cut

    I am seriously beginning to think you read what you want to read and not respond to the whole post. The discussion was about how good their O-line was, not will be. And you missed my point about Robinson completely No sense adding Robinson to the mix as guess what? He didn't play, so whatever he adds future on down the line has no bearing on what we were discussing. And as he didn't play there was absolutely no way to gauge how good he is or isn't.

    i expect the Carolina O-Line woes to recover a lot quicker than u for the reasons discussed

    But we weren't talking about the future of the o-line, we were talking about how sh1t it was for the last two seasons. My main point stands they failed to protect their QBs simple as. And they were one of the main reasons why their passing game failed.

    As for beating someone over the head :rolleyes: Yeah thats what was happening. I must try use that the next time someone disagrees with my posts.

    I guess it is one of those instances we will agree to disagree because it doesn't ever seem like you will stay on point with the discussion.


  • #385
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    neilster wrote: »
    also i think Ingram is reaching a little at 16 ...there is Hunter and Leshoure and bithare very capable

    I don't see any Runningback going in the 1st. With the amount of solid backs in the draft taking a chance on one in the 1st is unnecessary. Hunter, Jones, Williams, Thomas, Vereen and a few more are just as capable. If you don't mind me asking who is Bith?


  • #386
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,786 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »
    I am seriously beginning to think you read what you want to read and not respond to the whole post.
    It took you long enough to figure that out, I gave up after a couple of days.:D


  • #387
    Peyton Manning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    Sea Devils wrote: »
    ESPN will be showing the first round starting at 1am Friday Morning and rounds two and three on Friday Evening at 11pm.

    Work is going to be a joy on Friday staying up for this :(

    ....who am I kidding, I love the commitment! :P


  • #388
    TaosHum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭TaosHum


    Tom_Brady wrote: »
    Work is going to be a joy on Friday staying up for this :(

    ....who am I kidding, I love the commitment! :P

    Booked the next day off work weeks ago :p. But will have to work the Saturday :(


  • #389
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Tom_Brady wrote: »
    Work is going to be a joy on Friday staying up for this :(

    ....who am I kidding, I love the commitment! :P

    I love being a student again. Exams coming up soon and the day off on Friday, Study or Draft hangover :D:D


  • #390
    TaosHum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭TaosHum


    Have to say, the build up to the draft this year is quite odd. Usually we know who the first pick is and you can usually expect something to happen (like a player trade) to shake things up. But with the lockout we are kind of left in limbo at the moment, not really knowing what positions teams are going to focus on because of no Free Agency.

    I have a feeling this draft is going to be extremely unpredictable.


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  • #391
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    TaosHum wrote: »
    Have to say, the build up to the draft this year is quite odd. Usually we know who the first pick is and you can usually expect something to happen (like a player trade) to shake things up. But with the lockout we are kind of left in limbo at the moment, not really knowing what positions teams are going to focus on because of no Free Agency.

    I have a feeling this draft is going to be extremely unpredictable.

    Totally agree. The one thing that sits on my mind is those planning to take players to start. If the lockout continues into the summer teams will have to ask themselves now will our new guys have enough time to fit in and practice and learn our playbooks. Especially QBs.

    Teams are almost going to gamble on a lot of picks. There has been a lot of suggestion that many teams will look to trade down and to next years draft if they feel the lockout will eat up the summer and Camps.

    Even with that Judges decision yesterday still doesn't look like the end is in sight.


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