"I'm Irish"...but what does that mean?

Dudess · 25-04-2011 01:51PM

OP, I don't speak Irish and I'm not into GAA either. I also don't have a strong accent (but it's still an Irish accent, as is yours) however, none of the above reduces my Irishness. I view it in the "accident of birth" sense, the way you say you do - but I'm not sure you really do, seeing as you're analysing it. You're Irish because you were born here, it's nothing to be proud of (IMO), nothing to be ashamed of and insecure about either though - concern re collective negative Irish phenomena and the recent bad things happening here is understandable, but I don't get the dissecting and constant concern about what other nationalities think of you as an individual.

Dermighty · 25-04-2011 01:52PM

Richard Dower wrote: »

The national identity eh?....it's like when you go abroad, oh....you're Irish.
What does being Irish mean to you?.....because for me, it's meaningless. Ireland is where i was born, nothing more.

I don't identify with what it means to be Irish, i hate GAA, i don't speak Irish, i don't enjoy the craic or going on the lash.

Hell if i'm honest i identify more with being Martian.

Who cares...

Hail 2 Da Thief · 25-04-2011 02:08PM

I'm Irish"...but what does that mean?

On Boards, being Irish means you irrationally obsess about the meaning of being Irish :pac:

In reality, it just means you weren't working in some Chinesse sweat shop from the age of 12 or recruited as a boy soldier in Sierra Leone.

LAVADUDE · 25-04-2011 05:11PM

I never understood while some people feel the need to start a sentence with "As an Irish man................." when talking about the economy/politics

OS119 · 25-04-2011 05:23PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Don't talk nonsense.

its not nonsense - i think you're an idot as well.

eco2live · 25-04-2011 05:28PM

If you where born in Herdygerf you would appreciate being Irish

LordSutch · 25-04-2011 05:36PM

The majority view of being Irish in Boards.ie means that you are a Nationalist, an Irish Republican, Irish speaking (or aspire to be), and a lapsed Catholic, who hates West Brits (as they call us), supports the long term aims of the IRA, plays GAA sports, wears celtic or ManU football shirts, and instincitively goes to holiday destinations where other like minded Irish people gather to get pissed & sing rebel songs.

Nice

Mardy Bum · 25-04-2011 05:38PM

A health diet of Synge, Yeats, Joyce, Beckett, Friel.

Start with Synge and by the end of it you will have so many definitions for Irishness you may think you were ignorant beforehand.

Sonnenblumen · 25-04-2011 05:53PM

Dudess wrote: »

You're Irish because you were born here,

So if you're born in a stable, that makes you a horse? :eek:

Any more gems?

JBnaglfar · 25-04-2011 06:59PM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

So if you're born in a stable, that makes you a horse? :eek:

Any more gems?

All horses are born in stables; X was born in a stable, therefore X is a horse = bad logic.

Everyone born in Ireland is Irish; X was born in Ireland; therefore X is Irish = good logic.

Problem?

Dudess · 25-04-2011 07:03PM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

So if you're born in a stable, that makes you a horse? :eek:

If you're a horse who's born in a stable, then yes, you're a horse. If you're a person born in Ireland, then that makes you an Irish citizen. You can lose the faux shock.

Any more gems?

Not as many as you. You can lose the faux confusion.

Maybe some day you'll contribute something of substance rather than snide digs and cryptic one-liners.

P_1 · 25-04-2011 07:04PM

I'm Irish to me means I was born in Ireland.
If I were born in Edinburgh I'd be Scottish,
If I were born in London I'd be English,
If I were born in New York I'd be American.

Get the picture?

Kevin Duffy · 25-04-2011 07:08PM

JBnaglfar wrote: »

Everyone born in Ireland is Irish; X was born in Ireland; therefore X is Irish = good logic.

Problem?

There is a problem, simply being born in Ireland is not a qualification for citizenship.

To the poster above who said "born in New York = American", De Valera was born in...where was it...?

Celly Smunt · 25-04-2011 07:11PM

you know the funny thing,nothing about Ireland is actually 100% irish

P_1 · 25-04-2011 07:13PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

There is a problem, simply being born in Ireland is not a qualification for citizenship.

To the poster above who said "born in New York = American", De Valera was born in...where was it...?

That would be my own opinion, Dev was of course born in New York to an Irish mother and a Cuban father, which entitled him to both Irish and Cuban citizenship. Were I in Dev's shoes I'd consider myself as an American who was entitled to Irish and Cuban citizenship.

Sonnenblumen · 25-04-2011 08:15PM

JBnaglfar wrote: »

All horses are born in stables; X was born in a stable, therefore X is a horse = bad logic.

Everyone born in Ireland is Irish; X was born in Ireland; therefore X is Irish = good logic.

Problem?

Well, not all horses are born in stables! If you bring a pair of breeding Irish setters to Scotland, does the litter become Scottish Setters?

Need more clues - check the sports pages.

Back to class.:P

Sonnenblumen · 25-04-2011 08:19PM

Dudess wrote: »

If you're a horse who's born in a stable, then yes, you're a horse. If you're a person born in Ireland, then that makes you an Irish citizen. You can lose the faux shock.

If you're a horse surely it matter's not where you're born?

Also only horses are born in stables? Don't think so.

Is it really that difficult?

ColeTrain · 25-04-2011 08:23PM

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Why would anyone have pride about where they came from, it's idiotic, it's no achievement, you might as well be proud to have brown hair or be proud to be 6 foot tall.

If you had a son or daughter that's not much of an achievement but that's not to say you wouldn't be proud of them.

Even if you couldn't give a s***, remember there are plenty of hell holes you could have been born into, at least be grateful for that much granted nobody is forcing you to sing Boys of the old Brigade

Kevin Duffy · 25-04-2011 08:27PM

Dudess wrote: »

If you're a person born in Ireland, then that makes you an Irish citizen.

Not necessarily. There is a formula based on place of birth and parent's citizenship and residency. There are citzens because of marriage who've never set foot in Ireland. There are kids born in Ireland who don't and can't become Irish citzens.

JBnaglfar · 25-04-2011 08:33PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

There is a problem, simply being born in Ireland is not a qualification for citizenship.

To the poster above who said "born in New York = American", De Valera was born in...where was it...?

I did not say it was, see below for explanation. Duddess's argument was logically valid. If you accept her premises, you must accept the conclusion. You can reject the truth of the premises tho, which you have. That's another argument altogether which I did not address.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Well, not all horses are born in stables! If you bring a pair of breeding Irish setters to Scotland, does the litter become Scottish Setters?

Need more clues - check the sports pages.

Back to class.:P

I'm not talking about how the world is. I was merely pointing out that the person I quoted made an illogical statement. I made no claims about the validity of the premises that they used, just merely showed that the conclusion about the horses cannot be reached logically from the premises given in the post that I replied to.

Premise 1. All P (horses) are Q (born in a stable).
Premise 2. S (a particular person) is Q.
Conclusion. S is P.
That is an illogical, invalid conclusion whether the premises are true or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_validity

Kevin Duffy · 25-04-2011 08:41PM

Indeed, but 'tis a thread about Irishness, beejaysis.

JBnaglfar · 25-04-2011 08:45PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Indeed, but 'tis a thread about Irishness, beejaysis.

Yeah, I just thought to myself 'What the hell am I doing talking here about horses?':o

Yahew · 25-04-2011 08:48PM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

If you're a horse surely it matter's not where you're born?

Also only horses are born in stables? Don't think so.

Is it really that difficult?

No but this guy was a horse born in a stable. That is - he is presumably of Irish descent and was born and brought up in Ireland. That would make him Irish. Now he may not feel Irish, and may be "accentless" to his own ears but thats all bull. He could try a loyalist estate in Northern Ireland to see how Irish he appears to them. Or try Nigeria and see if he fits in.

Now somebody of, say Finnish descent, who was born here because his parents were ambassadors, and moved to Finland when he was 9 months ( say) would not be Irish. So, no, not everything born in a stable is a horse. But he's a horse.

Yahew · 25-04-2011 08:51PM

As for the OP's personality. Speaking as someone who has lived in England, the US, and Ireland ( and has hung around with the natives in all three ) I am Irish since I was born and mostly grew up there. I sound Irish. I know Irish stuff.

I am very dubious about the kind of guy who spends his whole like in a small town like Limerick ( controversial, I understand) and feels his doesnt belong. The rest of the world sees you as what you are - a man who lives in Limerick all his life. A limerick man. A man of limited horizons. You are what you do. Your rich much cosmopolitan inner life is not reflected by your external actions.

There is still time. If you feel that living in Ireland is not you, that you are closer to some other nationality ( there is no such thing as a non-national human being) then you should take the courage and leave the comfort of the place you dont feel you belong in.

That said: all we know is you dont fit in where you are, and you probably wont fit in anywhere else.

Richard Dower · 25-04-2011 08:59PM

I think i need to return to Mars, Ireland ain't working out..........

Kevin Duffy · 25-04-2011 09:01PM

Yahew wrote: »

( there is no such thing as a non-national human being)

There are many, many stateless people in the world. Problems in Somalia, DR Congo and similar have produced many who identify with an ethnicity but have no "nationality". Part of the motivation for the creation of Israel was so the Jewish diaspora would not have to face the problems they did in Germany (and other places) when nationality was removed, so they would have a homeland and nationality. Osama Bin Laden would be an example of a stateless person (unless he's changed that recently).

Kevin Duffy · 25-04-2011 09:03PM

The Wind That Shakes The Barley is just starting on TV3. Let's all watch it and see if it changes any answers

Sonnenblumen · 25-04-2011 09:05PM

Yeehaa Yahew - go on, you tell 'em all about 'i want to break free' and release the inner cosmopolitan self, as seen in Irl, UK and USA (narrow pool by the way)!

Yahew · 25-04-2011 09:05PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

There are many, many stateless people in the world. Problems in Somalia, DR Congo and similar have produced many who identify with an ethnicity but have no "nationality". Part of the motivation for the creation of Israel was so the Jewish diaspora would not have to face the problems they did in Germany (and other places) when nationality was removed, so they would have a homeland and nationality. Osama Bin Laden would be an example of a stateless person (unless he's changed that recently).

I am using the term national to mean ethnic, by and large.

Kevin Duffy · 25-04-2011 09:11PM

Yahew wrote: »

I am using the term national to mean ethnic, by and large.

You can't, they are not interchangeable. Ethnicity may be part of nationality, but the corrollary is not true. China, one nationality, many ethnicites. Ditto The UK, Russia, The US and others.

"I'm Irish"...but what does that mean?

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