Grand National - Animal cruelty posing as sport and entertainment?

Da Shins Kelly · 09-04-2011 05:06PM #1

Watched it today and was a little bit shocked. Two horses were killed - one broke its back, the other its neck. What exactly is the purpose of this race other than people putting on tiny bets and then watching to see who makes it back in one piece? Why do the fences have to be THAT enormous and why does there have to THAT many horses in the field for it to be entertaining? It all came across as a little barbaric today, is all..

hoodwinked · 09-04-2011 05:11PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Watched it today and was a little bit shocked. Two horses were killed - one broke its back, the other its neck. What exactly is the purpose of this race other than people putting on tiny bets and then watching to see who makes it back in one piece? Why do the fences have to be THAT enormous and why does there have to THAT many horses in the field for it to be entertaining? It all came across as a little barbaric today, is all..

Formula 1 Watched it today and was a little bit shocked. Two horses cars were killed - one broke its back wing, the other its neck wheel. What exactly is the purpose of this race other than people putting on tiny bets and then watching to see who makes it back in one piece? Why do the fences have to be THAT enormous cars have to go THAT fast and why does there have to THAT many horses in the field cars on track for it to be entertaining? It all came across as a little barbaric today, is all..

see any entertainment fits in your rant

can do it for soccer too if you want?

09-04-2011 05:12PM

Wait, horses were killed?
I thought they weren't harmed especially if crops weren't used

Urgh

PeakOutput · 09-04-2011 05:13PM

the horses actually enjoy racing, its unfortunate that two were killed obviously but horse racing is not cruel

im invisible · 09-04-2011 05:14PM

some of the bets arnt that small, tbf

Minstrel27 · 09-04-2011 05:14PM

I did wonder how long it would take for this thread to appear.

Coriolanus · 09-04-2011 05:15PM

The horses don't get a choice though do they? A race driver can choose not to drive.

JONJO THE MISER · 09-04-2011 05:15PM

Just back from the bookies great buzz down there for the national.

mike65 · 09-04-2011 05:17PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Watched it today and was a little bit shocked. Two horses were killed - one broke its back, the other its neck. What exactly is the purpose of this race other than people putting on tiny bets and then watching to see who makes it back in one piece? Why do the fences have to be THAT enormous and why does there have to THAT many horses in the field for it to be entertaining? It all came across as a little barbaric today, is all..

Is it the horses that are the issue or death in sport? I mention that as Forumla One racing used to kill two or three drivers a year (now thats unthinkable) were you concerned about that? Or is it sentiment about horses?

The fences are not as testing as they usd to be and the whole point of the GN course is that it is a challange. Its the Nurburgring of horses racing. I have to say if it went I wouldn't be too disappointed

Snappy the Moose · 09-04-2011 05:17PM

It is probably shocking to the untrained eye as such. Certainly not animal cruelty.

These are horses that are trained and bred to participate in this sport, there is a ballot to ensure the most efficient horses get entered also. It is unfortunate that horses died but nobody wants to see that, if the trainers owners are worried there is nobody stopping them from pulling their horse.

Oranage2 · 09-04-2011 05:18PM

Only crimes against entertainment -

Horse racing is as boring if not more so than golf

Snappy the Moose · 09-04-2011 05:19PM

Nevore wrote: »

The horses don't get a choice though do they? A race driver can choose not to drive.

They can refuse to jump off. These horses are trained for this sport, they are not average horses just thrown into a race. You are probably seeing it as cruel due to a lack of knowledge.

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 09-04-2011 05:21PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Only crimes against entertainment -

Horse racing is as boring if not more so than golf

In your opinion.

Da Shins Kelly · 09-04-2011 05:23PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

Formula 1 Watched it today and was a little bit shocked. Two horses cars were killed - one broke its back wing, the other its neck wheel. What exactly is the purpose of this race other than people putting on tiny bets and then watching to see who makes it back in one piece? Why do the fences have to be THAT enormous cars have to go THAT fast and why does there have to THAT many horses in the field cars on track for it to be entertaining? It all came across as a little barbaric today, is all..

see any entertainment fits in your rant can do it for soccer too if you want?

Not really the same thing though, given that humans choose to put their lives on the line when they participate in Formula 1 Racing or whatever. Horses don't choose to run in the Grand National. I don't mind horse racing (like the flat racing and all that), but it seems like the Grand National is particularly demanding. And all this, "Oh it's SUPPOSED to be a challenge" doesn't really fit when the horses aren't exactly choosing to take on the challenge. Is it really necessary to have fences that are almost bigger than the horses, or have forty horses in the field?

Da Shins Kelly · 09-04-2011 05:24PM

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

They can refuse to jump off. These horses are trained for this sport, they are not average horses just thrown into a race. You are probably seeing it as cruel due to a lack of knowledge.

They can refuse to jump off? Horses are flight animals, if one starts running, they all do. That's why they run in a tightly packed group, all together.

CoalBucket · 09-04-2011 05:26PM

well i won around €20 so it was all worth it

sunflower27 · 09-04-2011 05:27PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Only crimes against entertainment -

Horse racing is as boring if not more so than golf

WHAT!!!!

There is no comparison. Nothing is more boring than golf.

sollar · 09-04-2011 05:28PM

Nevore wrote: »

The horses don't get a choice though do they? A race driver can choose not to drive.

Neither does poor old daisy the cow but she likely to end up on a plate served with chips

orourkeda · 09-04-2011 05:29PM

Isn't animal cruelty wonderful?

I just won €200.

Hoorah for animal cruelty

Oranage2 · 09-04-2011 05:30PM

baz2009 wrote: »

In your opinion.

i guess horses for courses so (pun intended)

Watching midgets ride horses just isnt my thing!

PeakOutput · 09-04-2011 05:31PM

Nevore wrote: »

The horses don't get a choice though do they? A race driver can choose not to drive.

of course they do look at the size of them first of all and secondly look at how they react when jockeys fall off they keep on running as long as they can with all the other horses

Snappy the Moose · 09-04-2011 05:31PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

They can refuse to jump off? Horses are flight animals, if one starts running, they all do. That's why they run in a tightly packed group, all together.

No, if a horse is not in the mood to run he will refuse. King John's Castle didn't jump off last year and he had 39 horses in front of him. That solves that argument really.

However, even if they do jump off and aren't travelling well they will be pulled up, a jockey (generally) wants to keep the horse safe just as much as anyone.

CoalBucket · 09-04-2011 05:31PM

Is there a betting market on how many horses would be put down ?

orourkeda · 09-04-2011 05:33PM

Like many forms of sports involving animals, the trainers and owers who are doing their jobs properly in the horse racing industry have their horses in the equine version of Buckingham Palace. To call the sport of kings barbaric is ill informed

landsleaving · 09-04-2011 05:38PM

I hate horse racing, so I feel strange defending it, but just gonna use some logic. Those horses are crazily expensive to own, breed, keep, feed, etc. Only rich people own them, and rich people want a return on their investment, that's why they're rich. If horses were likely to die or be injured during a race, they'd make the races less dangerous or pick a new sport to get even more rich from and have us poor schlubs bet on that instead.

Slattsy · 09-04-2011 05:39PM

I should start a thread 'cruelty to me' as i lost my proverbial nuts today !!

Coriolanus · 09-04-2011 05:48PM

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

They can refuse to jump off. These horses are trained for this sport, they are not average horses just thrown into a race. You are probably seeing it as cruel due to a lack of knowledge.

Nice snap judgement there Snappy. Where did I say I saw it as cruel?
I was refuting the comparison to F1 racing.

Da Shins Kelly · 09-04-2011 05:48PM

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

No, if a horse is not in the mood to run he will refuse. King John's Castle didn't jump off last year and he had 39 horses in front of him. That solves that argument really.

However, even if they do jump off and aren't travelling well they will be pulled up, a jockey (generally) wants to keep the horse safe just as much as anyone.

I am into horses, I have owned horses, I know that they are flight animals. The cases where the horses refuse to jump off are very rare incidents. If it was to be investigated as to why the horse refused to jump off, there is usually some reason behind it such as there being something off the course (the crowd, a stablemate, etc) that is distracting them or spooking them, so they don't jump off. Almost all of the time, the horse will jump off with the rest of them, regardless. Horses don't work independent of their instinct to run with the crowd, unless there is some other external influence that is stopping them.

I don't doubt for a second that the jockey wants to keep them safe, I'm just asking in the context of the Grand National, why does it have to be so exceedingly difficult for the animals - the height of the fences, the length of the race, the size of the field. It's asking for trouble, and half of the entertainment value seems to come from the fact that the horses do fall. I'm not disputing either how well treated the horses are when they're in the trainers' yards. I'm disputing the necessity of such an overwhelmingly difficult race, even if the horses are bred for racing (even though not all thoroughbreds are bred for racing).