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Dublin Port

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  • 06-04-2011 6:29pm
    #1
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭


    Dublin Port to reclaim land in expansion plan
    The Dublin Port company will be renewing attempts to reclaim land from Dublin Bay to cope with a projected doubling of trade by 2040.

    An Bord Pleanála turned down permission for a 52-acre infill at the eastern end of the north port area last year on environmental grounds.

    But the port company today announced a period of public consultation on options to expand the port's capacity, saying that a total of nearly 100 acres may be required.

    The options included a refined expansion plan for the area refused by An Bord Pleanála, as well as reclaiming land at the south docks at Poolbeg and infilling part of the existing north port area.

    The company also says it needs deeper berths to cope with the increasing size of ships. It suggests dredging along the North Wall and rebuilding that quay to provide berths for cruise ships.

    It is also proposing to dredge the Alexandra basin in the northern port area.

    Dublin Port company chief executive Eamonn O'Reilly pointed out that port volumes previously quadrupled between 1980 and 2010.

    The figures started to grow again last year following the downturn and even with an estimated growth of just 2.5% a year, this would mean trade doubling to 60m tonnes by 2040.

    A period of public consultation on the options is due to begin with port customers, local residents and the city council until the end of May and a master plan is to be drawn up by the end of the year.

    Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar today welcomed the consultation initiative, saying the smooth running of Dublin Port is vital to the national economy.

    The previous expansion plan was opposed by environmentalists, residents in the Clontarf area who feared it could cause flooding, and Dublin City Council, which said it could interfere with amenity plans for Dublin Bay.

    An Bord Pleanála refused the expansion on grounds that it could interfere with an area covered by the EU Bird Directive.

    Dublin Port already handles half of the country's imports and exports.
    Given the economic constraints the country faces over the next few years, should this project be reviewed if it involves Exchequer investment to see if some of the excess demand can be redirected elsewhere? Balbriggan Port is probably not going to happen but maybe Drogheda and Arklow could take some?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,469 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    why not buy the glass factory site for a song now for use, it's effectively worth nothing now? Obviously can't supply waterside land but is idea for storage etc or pushing existing stuff back into it to open up the water edge


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    #3
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Thing is, if DPTs estimates are right it's not just going to be dock space but connecting road/rail too.

    Of course, there's always cargo barges :eek::D


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    #4
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    why not buy the glass factory site for a song now for use, it's effectively worth nothing now? Obviously can't supply waterside land but is idea for storage etc or pushing existing stuff back into it to open up the water edge

    Road and rail access. The North side of the river has it all.


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    #5
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,469 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Road and rail access.

    and the east link provides a perfect link to the whole south side site and rail is not used apart from the Tara run...


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    #6
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Dublin Port National Development Plan Study

    http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/11733-DUBLIN_PORT_REPORT_PUBLISHED_VERSION-0.PDF

    From July 2009, has a fair bit of tables regarding current port traffic as well as number of different scenarios (closing south port etc.)

    --Edit--

    Page 26 here shows map of proposed infil land and it's use (Ro-Ro)
    http://www.dublinport.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/Issues_Paper.pdf


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    #7
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    and the east link provides a perfect link to the whole south side site and rail is not used apart from the Tara run...

    And the IWT container run, and the fact that IWT and Stobart want to put a lot more rail freight on...


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    #8
    Son of Stupido
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Son of Stupido


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Dublin Port to reclaim land in expansion plan
    Given the economic constraints the country faces over the next few years, should this project be reviewed if it involves Exchequer investment to see if some of the excess demand can be redirected elsewhere? Balbriggan Port is probably not going to happen but maybe Drogheda and Arklow could take some?

    Surely development to bring in more cruise ships is money well spent?

    The problem is the liffey is not deep enough for most of them, and the current berthing facilities are too far away from the city centre. The development of the cruise traffic means the other traffic needs to be accomodated elsewhere, through more efficent use of the land.

    The port has been a driving force in the Irish ecomomy over the last decade. It could be used to kick start a recovery.


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    #9
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Son of Stupido - note I didn't say "Dublin Port shouldn't be expanded at all", just that any expansion should be part of a coherent national strategy rather than DP's wishlist. If DP's expansion brings in business other ports will never get and whose returns defray the investment cost then fine.


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    #10
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    and the east link provides a perfect link to the whole south side site and rail is not used apart from the Tara run...
    The issue isn't rail use in the Portlands (and DP are already reinstating Alexandra Tramway to reflect higher usage) but it might be slots on the Northern Line and to the Park Tunnel.


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    #11
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    dowlingm wrote: »
    The issue isn't rail use in the Portlands (and DP are already reinstating Alexandra Tramway to reflect higher usage) but it might be slots on the Northern Line and to the Park Tunnel.
    Freight is moved at night as it is not generally highly time sensitive. Slots on the Northern Line therefore aren't really an issue IMO.


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    #12
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    murphaph wrote: »
    Freight is moved at night as it is not generally highly time sensitive. Slots on the Northern Line therefore aren't really an issue IMO.
    On April 4 the Tara train passed Gormanston laden at 1355 and empty at 1430 according to IRN spotters. My understanding is that that timing is usual.


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    #13
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    murphaph wrote: »
    Freight is moved at night as it is not generally highly time sensitive. Slots on the Northern Line therefore aren't really an issue IMO.

    There are no night-time freight movements.

    All of the current freight movements on the Irish Rail network are during the day (timber, IWT, Norfolk Line, Tara mines).


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    #14
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    lxflyer wrote: »
    There are no night-time freight movements.

    All of the current freight movements on the Irish Rail network are during the day (timber, IWT, Norfolk Line, Tara mines).
    Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that I knew for a fact that Irish Rail move their freight at night etc. I was more suggesting that freight (especially feckin zinc ore) is not generally time sensitive (unless it's mail) and that waiting until the night hours to shift it through the bottlenecks should not be a problem.

    In reality, mid afternoon on the northern line is probably quiet enough to shift it too, when it's just one train a day. If they ever drastically increased railfreight, they'd have to look at night time movements I imagine.


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    #15
    eia340600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭eia340600


    What have DPC got to lose with a move to Bremore?If anything they have everything to gain: Lots of space, easy access to rail and roads, no need for expensive reclamation, monetary gains from the sale of residential zone(able) land.The list goes on...


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    #16
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    eia340600 wrote: »
    What have DPC got to lose with a move to Bremore?If anything they have everything to gain: Lots of space, easy access to rail and roads, no need for expensive reclamation, monetary gains from the sale of residential zone(able) land.The list goes on...
    Yeah but a port doesn't build itself for free or overnight. There are lots and lots of pieces of infrastructure in the port that would cost a lot of money to tear down and rebuild. I'd also imagine that the soil in much of the port is heavily contaminated with all manner of oils and heavy metals, probably not that cheap to build on without first fully decontaminating the site, and there's the small matter of massively reduced demand for housing for the forseeable.


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    #17
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    There's an assumption there though - that DP would control Bremore Port. Was that the plan or was there some kind of PD competition thing going on?


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    #18
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Dublin Port company has no involvement in Bremore development. It's Drogheda Port company that is pushing it along with Treasury holding. they see it as an oppurtunity to replace the current port facilities in Drogheda and to grab a chunk of traffic coming into Dublin. Given that DPC (Dublin) have no involvement it's hardly surprising they aren't a fan of the development.


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    #19
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Would there be push back from the North Wall residents if 071s were shunting around at all hours? Also, the port workers would have to be paid more to work the night shift presumably?


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    #20
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    The port should be moved out of the city anyway, that's an absolute nessecity in my opinion. I would suggest moving it North as the railway line to the south is single track and has little space for expansion around Bray. Finance it privately, triple capacity, and turn the existing land into residential/commercial zones to create thousands of jobs and homes going forward 10-20 years.

    People will moan about the port tunnel being a waste but in fact the opposit will be true, it's still a perfectly good direct motorway injection to within 2km of the city centre.

    Harry Crosbie is probably having a wet dream at the prospect.


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    #21
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Some of the traffic like the cruise ship traffic would come in irrespective so there would still be a reason to have a Port.

    The bulk loads like Tara ore are the stuff best sent up to Bremore since there's no reason to ship them through Dublin (they aren't processed or anything, just transshipped)


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    #22
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    How much of the traffic that comes into Dublin port is destinted for locations within the M50? I thought I remembered hearing a figure of around 50%


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