RSU and Garda Van collide in Cork

Bosh · 05-04-2011 06:26PM

Lads & Lassies, none of you have a clue what happened, so all this discussion is mere supposition and is both pointless and also possibly impacting on an ongoing investigation.

How about giving it a rest until the actual facts are known?

muppet01 · 05-04-2011 07:07PM

One point struck me on this incident, as the volvo is a RSU unit i wonder what the SOP for securing the weapons locker is as the members are incapacitated.
I am aware SOP's would not be discussed but i think it must involve a different response ( while not taking away from the fact that the lads need medical assistance asap) ???? .A RTA with loose weapons must be a nightmare

roundymac · 05-04-2011 07:20PM

t

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I live slightly off the Boreenmana road, and drive that junction every day. It's not a blind spot. I've done the whole roadcraft thing on bikes and in cars, and that's not a dangerous junction once you're travelling at the correct speed for the slip road off the dual carraigeway. It's actually quite a wide section of road given that trucks* turn up there for Murphy Transport every day.

*Even if one truck did overturn there recently, but that's more due to driver negligence IMHO.

You'v just summed it up in a nutshell Paintdoctor, once you are travelling at correct speed for the slip road off the dual carraigeway, two patrol cars travelling at speed would make it a blind junction, and I'v done the "roadcraft" thing as you call it, I am a hgv driver myself.

DublinWriter · 05-04-2011 07:24PM

Max001 wrote: »

Your post has no logic to it. I'd assume all AGS drivers are AGS trained and not merely let loose with civilian licences,

Assume away.

A recent article in the Sunday Business Post highlighted the fact that 75% of all guards who drive marked vehicles do so on "Chief Superintendent's Permission" on their regular civilian driving licence and haven't completed the Garda Advanced Driving Course.

05-04-2011 07:58PM

muppet01 wrote: »

One point struck me on this incident, as the volvo is a RSU unit i wonder what the SOP for securing the weapons locker is as the members are incapacitated.
I am aware SOP's would not be discussed but i think it must involve a different response ( while not taking away from the fact that the lads need medical assistance asap) ???? .A RTA with loose weapons must be a nightmare

I think the Volvos are like the A-Team van, being that they have a box in the back containing the weapons, which is always locked, until some pitying of fools is required.

What I'm more curious of, myself, is why both were responding. Seen as we don't know what they were responding to, I'm going to assume it wasn't something too bad.

So I'm not sure why the RSU were sent in the first place (im under the assumption that it's not like a taxi thing, where the first car to respond goes, but that the operator actually knows what units are free and can specifically tell who to respond?). Unless it were a serious issue, I don't understand why both a van and an RSU unit were required.

Hogzy · 05-04-2011 08:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So I'm not sure why the RSU were sent in the first place (im under the assumption that it's not like a taxi thing, where the first car to respond goes, but that the operator actually knows what units are free and can specifically tell who to respond?). Unless it were a serious issue, I don't understand why both a van and an RSU unit were required.

The RSU will do the regular Garda duties until called into action AFAIK. Open to correction though

roundymac · 05-04-2011 08:12PM

Hogzy wrote: »

The RSU will do the regular Garda duties until called into action AFAIK. Open to correction though

Correct.

05-04-2011 08:43PM

Hogzy wrote: »

The RSU will do the regular Garda duties until called into action AFAIK. Open to correction though

I believe you're right, but I rarely (if ever) see two Garda vehicles being dispatched around here, unless it's a very serious issue (or a logistical thing, where an additional vehicle or two may be require to block a road or such).

Around here, rarely are the cars out on patrol together. Usually you get one patrol car on a quiet night doing a quick circle of the town every now and again, but I never see two patrolling at the same time. Unless the area of this crash was just a rough area?

Hooch · 05-04-2011 09:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe you're right, but I rarely (if ever) see two Garda vehicles being dispatched around here, unless it's a very serious issue (or a logistical thing, where an additional vehicle or two may be require to block a road or such).

Its a city....several cars are dispatched to some calls. If RSU are dispatched....you can take it they that a call is, or could become, serious.

Mod Note
I'll allow this to continue but please remember its sub judice so any misleading comments will be deleted and the thread may be locked by me or a co mod if it gets out of hand.

05-04-2011 09:29PM

NGA wrote: »

Its a city....several cars are dispatched to some calls. If RSU are dispatched....you can take it they that a call is, or could become, serious.

Ah. I see. See, I suppose I'd normally only see what happens around me in Drogheda, so that's all i really have to compare to, which is why I'm so inquisitive.

Buffman · 05-04-2011 09:53PM

Luckily eveyone seems ok, no lasting injuries hopefully.

These things can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3uoVOOlT2s

Owen · 05-04-2011 10:59PM

roundymac wrote: »

t
You'v just summed it up in a nutshell Paintdoctor, once you are travelling at correct speed for the slip road off the dual carraigeway, two patrol cars travelling at speed would make it a blind junction, and I'v done the "roadcraft" thing as you call it, I am a hgv driver myself.

Roadcraft dictates that during a corner, you must never exceed the vanishing/limiting point, which removes the possibility of it being a blind junction. It's a standard slip road, no visual obstacles, and only has a slight arc of turn before straightening.

parsi · 05-04-2011 11:00PM

roundymac wrote: »

It dos'nt show it on the photo but it would appear that the van exited from a blind spot on the Borreenmana Road. If the volvo was travelling at speed it would'nt have much reaction time. Also if they both had their blues and twos on they would not have realise the other was coming.

That's not a blind spot. I drive it regularly and today I looked at it from the Old Blackrock Road bridge. The road from town curves to the right before the junction which adds a considerable amount of extra visibility to this junction. Even more so at night with lights and even more so for professional trained drivers on an empty road.

I suppose we should thank God that it wasn't a standard family car (un-reinforced) with our wives and kids that was smashed in to.

Hogzy · 05-04-2011 11:08PM

parsi wrote: »

That's not a blind spot. I drive it regularly and today I looked at it from the Old Blackrock Road bridge. The road from town curves to the right before the junction which adds a considerable amount of extra visibility to this junction. Even more so at night with lights and even more so for professional trained drivers on an empty road.

I suppose we should thank God that it wasn't a standard family car (un-reinforced) with our wives and kids that was smashed in to.

Or a drunken fool walking home. Iv seen it MANY a time. It was a Saturday night at half 1 after all.

parsi · 05-04-2011 11:15PM

Thank God I stick to the footpaths.

06-04-2011 10:40AM

parsi wrote: »

I suppose we should thank God that it wasn't a standard family car (un-reinforced) with our wives and kids that was smashed in to.

Or a group of mothers and children out for a nighttime walk. :rolleyes:

Terrontress · 06-04-2011 06:04PM

DublinWriter wrote: »

Assume away.

A recent article in the Sunday Business Post highlighted the fact that 75% of all guards who drive marked vehicles do so on "Chief Superintendent's Permission" on their regular civilian driving licence and haven't completed the Garda Advanced Driving Course.

There is no obligation for on-duty Emergency Services personnel to have any driving licence at all. There was a Garda previously with no license at all who killed someone while driving. He had never had a full licence and his provisional had expired several years previously. That was not taken as a factor in the death as he was exempt from requiring a licence.

independent.ie/national-news/courts/garda-in-fatal-crash-didnt-have-a-driving-licence-inquest-told-1945362.html

delta720 · 06-04-2011 07:01PM

parsi wrote: »

I think it is a valid question - how can two vehicles driven by trained personnel crash on an empty road with excellent sightlines ?

How can some people with full driving licences manage to crash into stationary cars while trying to park? Yet it happens all the time. It's called an accident.

People have accidents and make mistakes. This was a situation where the drivers were under high levels of stress. I think it is very ignorant for someone who has never been in a similar situation to imply guards are a danger to us on the roads. These guards were clearly putting their own lives at risk (as their injuries could easily have been worse as seen from the photo in this thread) to come to a member of the publics aid as fast as possible.

This is a service you would equally expect should you require it, yet you and others have continually criticised their efforts as if they are immature adolescents that are recklessly and purposefully going out of their way to endanger 'woman and children' on the roads.

I don't know what type of scandal your hoping will come out of this story but personally I hope should you ever require immediate assistance from the guards, that they would stop at every red light, follow every speed limit and then spend some time finding a suitable parking space that won't be of any minor inconvenience to other members of the public.

parsi · 06-04-2011 07:48PM

Now when you come back down from your threatening high horse consider this:

Accidents don't happen, they are caused.

It is still a valid question as to what happened that caused two professional drivers to crash into each other. From such investigations people learn things and these are used to inform training and operational procedures in the hope that similar events don't reoccur.. Same as when there's a rail accident, a plane accident, a workplace accident.

POGAN · 06-04-2011 08:35PM

this will be investigated and will be publicly release when the time comes, we can say what ever we want we weren't there unless members involved are on this. really hope the members get well soon and are quick back to work. i was concerned when some comments about the cost of replacing the car or will it get replaced, all garda cars are insured and will be replaced, wont take long as there unused cars still waiting to be issued

delta720 · 06-04-2011 08:38PM

parsi wrote: »

Now when you come back down from your threatening high horse consider this:

Accidents don't happen, they are caused.

It is still a valid question as to what happened that caused two professional drivers to crash into each other. From such investigations people learn things and these are used to inform training and operational procedures in the hope that similar events don't reoccur.. Same as when there's a rail accident, a plane accident, a workplace accident.

Firstly, I wasn't threatening you.

Secondly, rail/plane accidents and investigations generally focus on a fixed protocol and why that protocol wasn't followed or how it should be changed, you cannot compare the controlled environment of a passenger place or a train to the uncontroled environment of a driver traveling at faster than normal speeds where their own judgement of the situation is what decides their immediate actions NOT a pre-defined protocol. It is easy for someone who does not work in such an environment to criticise from the outside.

Professional drivers have accidents.....it happens...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C7Fh7AHQwQ

goldie fish · 06-04-2011 11:06PM

Hogzy wrote: »

Or a drunken fool walking home. Iv seen it MANY a time. It was a Saturday night at half 1 after all.

I once saw a guy walking starkers out along the south link, along the central reservation......at about 2am.

Corcioch · 06-04-2011 11:27PM

Hogzy wrote: »

.
There is NO blind spot on the Boreenmana road. What are you talking about?

That is absolutely no excuse. They should not be allowed drive at speed in Urban built up areas if they are not able to anticipate that cars will pull out in front of them. Its the whole reason we have speed limits. If gardai are allowed to break these limits lawfully then they should be trained to be more aware of their surroundings.

Again if they have their blues and twos on they should be even more aware. One of the cars (be it the van or the volvo) broke a red light or did not yield to oncoming traffic.
Even if they have their sirens on they MUST ALWAYS check to see if there is oncoming traffic who technically have right of way because their light is green.
I am not a trained driver. I am just a regular person. this is ALL common sense.
Someone definitely was not paying due care an attention.

Incorrect.

Perhaps when you ACTUALLY know what happened in this case you will be in a position to comment correctly.

mcko · 07-04-2011 08:02AM

I know what happened as a friend of mine saw the whole thing, both travelling in the same direction

Bosh · 07-04-2011 10:06AM

I think this discussion has now stepped right into a legal minefield and need to be locked. Now.

Monty Burnz · 07-04-2011 10:09AM

eroo wrote: »

Well if you see Gardai driving in a manner you feel is dangerous or wrong then report it to your local station.

Total waste of time tbh. What are they going to do about it, seriously?

Monty Burnz · 07-04-2011 10:18AM

lst wrote: »

Funniest thing I heard today!

Any member of any ES or regular driver on here will know of single, two vehicle, three vehicle collisions, pile ups and even minibus and ambulance accidents with serious injuries which dont get reported!!!

If two ESB / Eircom / Ice Cream vans crashed with injuries only and no traffic disruption would it be on the news? Theres hundreds of collisions weekly - there would be nothing else on the news!

I think you are missing the point on an epic scale here.

It IS in the news whether you like it or not, because it was a crash involving two Garda vehicles. NOW that we have learned about it, we are wondering how the crash occured, same as you would when presented with any other seemingly bizarre crash. The fact that the drivers were Gardai complicates things as you have to factor in the type of driving that goes on when the blue lights are flashing.

If someone posted pictures of two ice cream vans that had somehow crashed on the same stretch of road heading the same way, you can be sure that a similar discussion would take place, coloured instead by the known/observed behaviours of ice cream sellers rather than emergency service workers.

Hogzy · 07-04-2011 10:19AM

Bosh wrote: »

I think this discussion has now stepped right into a legal minefield and need to be locked. Now.

What are you talking about? No it hasnt. Jesus the second people talk about an issue that is currently being investigated by someone everyone is like "oh lock it we cant talk about it"

People we dont live in China or Cuba.

EDIT: I admit I was wrong. It does seem that they were traveling in the same direct. Which doesnt exactly help things. How can 2 cars going in the same direction end up having a side impact?

mcko · 07-04-2011 10:24AM

Hee Hee no blue lights on. I will leave it up to yourselves as to what happened.:D

maglite · 07-04-2011 11:13AM

mcko wrote: »

I will leave it up to yourselves as to what happened.:D

I know I know,,,,,, They hit each other,

I'm not going to pass judgement on this case, could have been a tire blow out, steering problem, anything... They could also have been acting the prat, But I don't know.

I would also say the standard of driving from a lot of Gardaí in Cork leaves a bit to be desired. Most days I'm undertaken by a Garda car on the South Ring.( They seem attracted to the hard shoulder in the morning. Added to that the guys dropping off the summons do not need to get there quickly or use Blue lights, They have HOURS to spare.

RSU and Garda Van collide in Cork

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