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Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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Comments

  • #452
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    optogirl wrote: »
    Look, I agree that people are over-reacting here calling for them to be sacked etc but let's look at a couple of the non-arguments being bandied about by people defending it as 'just banter' or whatever.

    1. The use of the word rape can have different meanings eg: one sports team raping another, being overcharged etc. This is true but does not apply in this case: do ye honestly think that they meant it in any other way than a sexual assault

    2. It's only a joke: Maybe some peope find this funny however it's highly offensive - they are not Frankie Boyle, they are the gardai and should have more cop on and frankly more manners than to speak like that at work. This would be a major HR issue if it happened at my work

    Well that's the other extreme. It isn't only a joke and these people do have to deal with rape victims, very inappropriate and out dated.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #453
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    optogirl wrote: »
    2. It's only a joke: Maybe some peope find this funny however it's highly offensive - they are not Frankie Boyle, they are the gardai and should have more cop on and frankly more manners than to speak like that at work. This would be a major HR issue if it happened at my work


    of course it would and it should be, they should be slapped on the wrist just the same as a person caught doing it in the private sector.

    it was a joke, an inappropriate, unacceptable joke(given the circumstances) but a joke nonetheless. nobody was actually threatened and there is no victim but it is not appropriate.

    therefore the appropriate punishment is a slap on the wrist


  • #454
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Skewed/biased poll options, by the way.


  • #455
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    to your knowledge, how do you know what is said, by your work colleagues in particular, when you are not around?

    would you suddenly not be friends with someone if you heard a recording of them making a rape themed joke?

    maybe you would but if that is the case I think you need to lighten up


    I don't know what is said amongst staff unless I am privy to it.

    But as an employer if it were brought to my attention that employees were talking about raping a female client, you can be sure disciplinary action would be taken under advisement.

    Why? Cos I run a professional business and expect all my employees to behave in a professional manner when they are on the clock.

    If a mate down the pub said something, I probably couldn't care less, cos A) hi won't be talking about someone under his care and B) is outside a professional arena.


  • #456
    vinchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭vinchick


    feelingstressed wrote: »
    The use of rape and other terms was discussed at length over in the Ladies Lounge last week

    A few giving examples like the speedy winger raped that slowed footed defender.
    Went shopping in Superquinn, so expensive there they raped my pockets.
    I'd rape a carvary dinner now, starving.

    Just two gardai blowing off steam.
    And most of the transcript is dealing with safety. Ladders and training to get people down from a height


    But they weren't using it in a figurative way.

    They were using it while in uniform acting as an agent of the State and in relation to people that they just arrested.

    It doesn't matter that they were just joking, it was totally inappropriate, in private or not.


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  • #457
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Off the top of my head I don't know any Mods, in AH or elsewhere on Boards, that are definitely female. But if you do, just try making rape-related comments of a similar nature about them. Let's see then whether you avoid being banned for long.

    well I do, and I know one with a bit of a rape fantasy so I guess I prove your thoughts wrong


  • #458
    kopfan77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭kopfan77


    podge3 wrote: »
    But isn't that why people read these threads? To see posters making complete ar$es of themselves?

    Don't tell me you expected enlightened and factual debate in threads like this :D.

    Guess I was hoping for a lil too much alright podge


  • #459
    Kewreeuss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 744 ✭✭✭Kewreeuss


    I'm cutting loose. I've had enough.
    Before that though, a question: Are posters allowed make comments about the phsychiatric wellbeing of other posters without naming names?


  • #460
    Buceph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    jetpack101 wrote: »
    I agree
    The word rape is not used as it was before, you here it a lot with online game play "We totally rapped that other team" or after a game of football "We got raped out there"

    They didn't ****ing mean it figuratively here. They meant it in the literal sense of physically and mentally dominanting someone to submission. What makes it unacceptable is that guards have the power to physical dominate somone to the point of submission. They were using it as bravado to show how powerful they were over someone they already exerted their control over. Jokingly, yes, but just because they meant it as joke doesn't make it acceptable.


  • #461
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I don't know what is said amongst staff unless I am privy to it.

    But as an employer if it were brought to my attention that employees were talking about raping a female client, you can be sure disciplinary action would be taken under advisement.

    Why? Cos I run a professional business and expect all my employees to behave in a professional manner when they are on the clock.

    If a mate down the pub said something, I probably couldn't care less, cos A) hi won't be talking about someone under his care and B) is outside a professional arena.

    great so you accept that context is important.

    in this context the only mistake the gardai made was to let themselves be recorded. if they were not recorded it would simply be a joke among two mates but because it was recorded it is now in the public domain and it is unacceptable for the gardai to make such comments in the public domain.

    they should be punished accordingly, ie mildly


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  • #462
    IQDENIED
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭IQDENIED


    @K_mac & prinz

    "What about surgeons joking about patients? Accountants joking about fraud? Solicitors joking about breaking the law? Electricians joking about faulty wiring?"

    "Do undertakers joke about the dead among themselves? Do doctors joke about illnesses or "vegetables"? It doesn't mean they take their job any less serious."

    These examples aren't even comparable, you're trying to liken a serious crime against a human (albeit one not commited) to faulty wiring/dead people?


  • #463
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Kewreeuss wrote: »
    I'm cutting loose. I've had enough.
    Before that though, a question: Are posters allowed make comments about the phsychiatric wellbeing of other posters without naming names?

    Any questions or examples can be direced to me via pm.


  • #464
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    IQDENIED wrote: »
    @K_mac & prinz

    "What about surgeons joking about patients? Accountants joking about fraud? Solicitors joking about breaking the law? Electricians joking about faulty wiring?"

    "Do undertakers joke about the dead among themselves? Do doctors joke about illnesses or "vegetables"? It doesn't mean they take their job any less serious."

    These examples aren't even comparable, you're trying to liken a serious crime against a human (albeit one not commited) to faulty wiring/dead people?

    the question asked was does it mean they take their jobs any less seriously?


  • #465
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    great so you accept that context is important.

    in this context the only mistake the gardai made was to let themselves be recorded. if they were not recorded it would simply be a joke among two mates but because it was recorded it is now in the public domain and it is unacceptable for the gardai to make such comments in the public domain.

    they should be punished accordingly, ie mildly


    Yes I agree somewhat. I am not calling for them to be sacked. Their superiors should be giving them a good talking to on what is appropriate language when at work.


  • #466
    Buceph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    great so you accept that context is important.

    in this context the only mistake the gardai made was to let themselves be recorded. if they were not recorded it would simply be a joke among two mates but because it was recorded it is now in the public domain and it is unacceptable for the gardai to make such comments in the public domain.

    they should be punished accordingly, ie mildly

    Yes, context is important. The context being that they were working as agents of the state and were in control of someone. Getting caught or not getting caught isn't context. It would be equally reprehensible if they were never caught. We just wouldn't know about it. If they said it in public, to a member of the public, I'd expect them to at the very least to be moved the Craggy Island motor corp.


  • #467
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Yes I agree somewhat. I am not calling for them to be sacked. Their superiors should be giving them a good talking to on what is appropriate language when at work.

    I agree

    I just think that anyone talking about 'victims' is being melodramatic. the shell campaign releasing the tapes has probably done more damage to victims and will do for a long time then those gardai did the woman they just arrested


  • #468
    Contra Proferentem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Contra Proferentem


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Do you think they should be charged?

    Obviously you, and many others in this thread believe that the Gardai should have a free reign while the crusties be made to suffer for their protestations.

    Seriously, it's not even about who is right and who is wrong for most of the people in this thread. It's about left vs right, and those on each side are so entrenched that they cannot look at the situation objectively.
    I'm quiet lefty, but this thing is a non-issue for me. It doesn't even rate on the scale.

    Looking at it objectively, which I would like to think I am doing, I don't see a massive issue. The appropriate and proportionate response is a slap on the wrist for those involved, and hopefully they'll be a bit more mature and a good lot wiser in future before having a laugh.


  • #469
    Poor Craythur
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭Poor Craythur


    Also, to the people saying "Oh, well people say "I'll kill him" all the time" the crucial difference is that people rarely have a problem reporting a murder (unless they are the guilty party) but rape is a whole other issue altogether.


  • #470
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Poor Craythur wrote: »
    Also, to the people saying "Oh, well people say "I'll kill him" all the time" the crucial difference is that people rarely have a problem reporting a murder (unless they are the guilty party) but rape is a whole other issue altogether.

    The victim often has a problem reporting murder.


  • #471
    Poor Craythur
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭Poor Craythur


    k_mac wrote: »
    The victim often has a problem reporting murder.

    But the people who discover the body usually don't. Don't be silly, you know exactly what I mean.

    Rape is under-reported as it is.


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  • #472
    Contra Proferentem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Contra Proferentem


    k_mac wrote: »
    The victim often has a problem reporting murder.
    Poor Craythur wrote: »
    Also, to the people saying "Oh, well people say "I'll kill him" all the time" the crucial difference is that people rarely have a problem reporting a murder (unless they are the guilty party) but rape is a whole other issue altogether.
    Oooh! Raped!


  • #473
    Poor Craythur
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭Poor Craythur


    Contra Proferentem wrote: »
    Oooh! Raped!

    Buh? That makes no sense, not even as a joke.


  • #474
    Contra Proferentem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Contra Proferentem


    Poor Craythur wrote: »
    Buh? That makes no sense, not even as a joke.
    You got owned. He raped you.


  • #475
    Poor Craythur
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭Poor Craythur


    Contra Proferentem wrote: »
    You got owned. He raped you.

    Wow, you are SO edgy and cutting! Chris Morris and Charlie Brooker have NOTHING on you.


  • #476
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Contra Proferentem wrote: »
    You got owned. He raped you.

    Either you contribute something to the thread or don't post at all. Your choice.


  • #477
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Unfortunate that the lads private conversation was recorded and it will be blown into something massive.

    To be honest during the arrest and the conversation in the car the lads seem very reasonable and didnt lose their heads with the protesters.

    Black humor is utilised by nearly every emergency service in the world and it is used alot. Non emergency service personnel would obviously not appreciate it thats why its usually kept behind closed doors.

    There have been many studies on the utilisation of cynical humor among emergency service professionals and it has been found to be vital to their profession.

    I remember reading an article from the Cambridge textbook on emergency services where it stated that it was vital way of coping with what you come up against in such a job.

    If a senior member had found this tape it wouldnt even be an issue but it will be blown sky high by the protesters and people who dont ever have to use black humor in their profession.


  • #478
    timmmay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭timmmay


    hard to know really with all this. I dunno. There is always the usual outcry from the public about how inept the police force of ireland is when these things happen.

    When im listening to things like this i always try and give people the benefit of the doubt and also look at my own experiences dealing with the gardai. Generally i have to say that the gardai by and large as with most people are good and most of them just want to do their job to the best of their ability.

    I do remember though a taxi driver who could pick up gardai frequencies on his radio telling me how he used to listen in on conversations of gardai who would be sitting in their patrol car at night in the city making lewd comments about the women walking by so i have no doubt also this talk goes on but then again this type of talk goes on between a lot of males in private. Its just i think when they say it to each other it may be acceptable or is it, when they say it to a member of the public joking or not its definetly not acceptable. Not really sure how telling a joke about raping someone is funny even if you are under stress?

    A quick trip over to the emergency services forum on this board and you'll see some members of the gardai telling each other to always remember to 'switch off the cameras' so obviously things like this are common occurance with the gardai.

    I think generally the problem with the gardai when you look at them compared to other police forces is the lack of oversight. They are known to be a very secretive police force with very little public disclosure how they operate. Back in 2009 a leading crime and policing academic today clamed An Garda Siochána is one of the most secretive police forces in the liberal western world.

    Professor Dermot Walsh told senior gardaí and justice experts there was still a lack of transparency despite dramatic reforms over the last few years.

    Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/garda-among-most-secretive-police-forces-436858.html#ixzz1Iehfx9F7


    I would tend to agree with this and i would say also the standard of education amongst members of the force is very low compared to other western countries. In the usa to becomes a police officer or state trooper a university degree or stint in the military is required as madatory. In ireland a junior cert. This is obviously not a good enough requirement for people expected to uphold the law.


    Also in the gardai im not sure if ordinary members of the force who go out on patrol have even got supervising officers who they report to about incidents which happen. How do they report incidents like this whenthey return to their station? All this is very unclear and murky and im sure adds to the confusion and mistrust in the gardai amongst the public. Oversight seems to be a huge problem within the gardai.

    Bottom line i think is i believe although like i said the majority of the members of the gardai are good people i still think there needs to be some major reforms in how policing is carried out in this country. Too many open ends. Will be interesting to see how this one pans out though.


  • #479
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    optogirl wrote: »
    I didnt summarise what transpired. I said I think, judging from that moronic childish conversation, that they are a brutish bunch of pri*cks. Jaysus you must have that rolly eyes smiley shortcut worn out by now Prinz

    Judging from that "moronic childish conversation" the vast majority of the recorded conversations which related to ensuring the safety of the protesters? Brutish prícks alright.
    smeedyova wrote: »
    This conversation reveals the true thought process of the individuals involved. It sounds to me as though they like the idea of rape....

    This post reveals the true thought process of the poster.
    smeedyova wrote: »
    The kindest interpretation that can be given to this conversation is that the individuals involved are utterly stupid and amazingly ignorant.

    At least they know what due diligence means. A lot of our top bankers, economists and politicians missed that one.
    IQDENIED wrote: »
    These examples aren't even comparable, you're trying to liken a serious crime against a human (albeit one not commited) to faulty wiring/dead people?

    It's ok to joke about killing people. It's not ok to joke about raping them. It's ok to joke about robbing them presumably..... Interesting staggering of priorities going on.


  • #480
    starviewadams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    Sounds like an episode of Hardy Bucks!


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  • #481
    Poor Craythur
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭Poor Craythur


    prinz wrote: »
    It's ok to joke about killing people. It's not ok to joke about raping them. It's ok to joke about robbing them presumably..... Interesting staggering of priorities going on.

    Again, people tend not to have a problem reporting murder and robbery. We all know rape is under-reported and this really doesn't help. I don't really get how you can't understand the difference here. It seems like you are wilfully trying not to accept that there is a difference.

    FWIW, I reckon them joking about killing/robbing people is a bit off too.


This discussion has been closed.
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