Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

squod · 05-04-2011 01:22PM

gardapa wrote: »

Get a grip!!

Try and expect more from your public representatives! This is gonna make a lovely story when the woman involved gets back to Canada or America.

gosuckonalemon · 05-04-2011 01:24PM

smeedyova wrote: »

They threatened to rape a woman who was in their custody. Several times. They thought about, talked about and laughed about raping a woman known to them and in their custody. How safe do you think this woman was in their hands? Would you like to be held in custody by these (in my opinion) uncivilised, uncouth, unintelligent people?

No they didn't. TBH I think you might not understand what actually happened.

At the most basic level (which I feel is what you need)

threat: –noun
1.
a declaration of an intention or determination to inflict punishment, injury, etc., in retaliation for, or conditionally upon, some action or course; menace

The gardai never said anything to the woman that might give her the impression she would be raped. They joked about raping but never threatened anyone directly.

_feedback_ · 05-04-2011 01:25PM

squod wrote: »

This is gonna make a lovely story when the woman involved gets back to Canada or America.

She doesn't need to bring it back to America. It will be blown out of all proportions all by ourselves and travel that far.

prinz · 05-04-2011 01:26PM

squod wrote: »

Try and expect more from your public representatives! This is gonna make a lovely story when the woman involved gets back to Canada or America.

Yeah, I mean completely foreign for the police forces over there to show anything less than the utmost professionalism and restraint when dealing with our citizens..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/06/ireland.usa

Kewreeuss · 05-04-2011 01:26PM

Smeedyova, have you read the transcript?

oceanclub · 05-04-2011 01:26PM

To the 25% of people here who seem to think it's just a big joke:

What do you think women who are raped in the next week or two are going to do? Do you think they will trust the Gardai, when even female Gardai are coming out to defend these remarks?

P.

stovelid · 05-04-2011 01:28PM

IQDENIED wrote: »

Go back to school?

I'm too old?

smeedyova · 05-04-2011 01:28PM

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

No they didn't. TBH I think you might not understand what actually happened.

At the most basic level (which I feel is what you need)

threat: –noun
1.
a declaration of an intention or determination to inflict punishment, injury, etc., in retaliation for, or conditionally upon, some action or course; menace

The gardai never said anything to the woman that might give her the impression she would be raped. They joked about raping but never threatened anyone directly.

This is what the transcript says:

Garda A: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”
Unidentified Garda: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”

The transcript to which I refer is here: http://www.shelltosea.com/content/transcripts-recording

What makes you think that these men were joking? Their alleged words indicate a direct plan of action...

In any case, I don't know how you can defend the suggestion, joking or not, of rape.

squod · 05-04-2011 01:28PM

prinz wrote: »

Yeah, I mean completely foreign for the police forces over there to show anything less than the utmost professionalism and restraint when dealing with our citizens..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/06/ireland.usa

Too true. Doesn't mean we should steep to their level.

Carolyyn · 05-04-2011 01:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Oi vey.

Is this what we've come down to? Gardai joking privately amongst themselves now being shown everywhere. Is there genuinely no privacy anymore?

So it's ok to joke about rape, is it? The least worst way I can describe that attitude is immature.

Moreover this 'joking' was by people who are likely to be investigating this type of crime at some stage in his career. It's no wonder women find it so difficult to report attacks when faced with this and subsequent experience in court. The fact that they didn't know they were being recorded is irrelevant, a Garda in uniform should act and behave in a professional manner and should not make these kind of remarks. Immature gits.

prinz · 05-04-2011 01:29PM

squod wrote: »

Too true. Doesn't mean we should steep to their level.

I think it's a world away from being anywhere close to the same level.

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 01:30PM

k_mac wrote: »

Section 6 of the Public Order Act makes it an offence to use threatening abusive or insulting words or behaviour ina public place.

Well couldn't that be applied in this case?

prinz · 05-04-2011 01:31PM

smeedyova wrote: »

What makes you think that these men were joking? Their alleged words indicate a direct plan of action....

Right. I can see what we're dealing with here.

the immortals · 05-04-2011 01:31PM

the term pigs comes to mind

prinz · 05-04-2011 01:31PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Well couldn't that be applied in this case?

No.

Air_Bass · 05-04-2011 01:32PM

...Aside from wheteher the (quite frankly disturbing) rape comment was said in jest or not, what a monumental display of complete f**king ineptitude at not checking whether the camera was switched on.
You'd think one of them would have thought to check.

_feedback_ · 05-04-2011 01:33PM

smeedyova wrote: »

This is what the transcript says:

Garda A: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”
Unidentified Garda: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”

The transcript to which I refer is here: http://www.shelltosea.com/content/transcripts-recording

What makes you think that these men were joking? Their alleged words indicate a direct plan of action...

In any case, I don't know how you can defend the suggestion, joking or not, of rape.

You're selectively quoting there. From earlier in thread:

elviscostello wrote: »

Have a look at the transcript again. They were talking about one lady being from America or Canada. She refused to give an address and was told she would be arrested, then someone said "and deported" (worse than arrested) and someone again "and raped" (way worse than arrested and deported).

It's just an attempt at humor.

The above wasn't actually directed at anyone - it was a mock of what "might" (JOKE) have happened.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 01:33PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Well couldn't that be applied in this case?

They weren't in a public place. But aside from that it would have to proven that the words they used would be liable to provoke a breach of the peace. As all the people invovled in the conversation were laughing this couldn't be proven. On the other hand, if they were in a public area and one of the Gardaí had taken offence to the joke this could be a possible charge.

mikedragon32 · 05-04-2011 01:34PM

smeedyova wrote: »

This is what the transcript says:

Garda A: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”
Unidentified Garda: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”

So Garda A and the unidentified Garda are threatening to rape each other?

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 01:34PM

prinz wrote: »

No.

Why not? Garda assets are owned by the state. That is where the comments were made.

Buceph · 05-04-2011 01:34PM

prinz wrote: »

Jokingly implied... and it wasn't a direct threat of action if you read the transcripts, more along the lines of 'give me your name or I'll deport/rape you'. Different from saying let's bring them back to the station and rape them.

I know this. I've accepted this. I'm saying that the problem isn't just that it's about rape. It's about the nature of rape, "someone asserting their dominance over someone" and it's about the nature of the guards' powers, i.e. just like rape their ability to assert their dominance over someone. Never mind the fact that people see any joke about rape as bad, the idea that guards would joke about using their power to inflict rape on someone shows a gross misunderstanding of their position in society.

So partly the reprimand should be because they joked about raping a prisoner. But the underlying issue is that they don't seem to fully appreciate what their role and duty is and what that means in regards to their power and authority as someone with special abilities entrusted to them.

And again, like I've said over and over. I think there's two extremes to this, the people who are saying they should be fired and their wives should leave them are taking things way out of proportion. And similarly the guys who are saying they're only joking aren't treating the idea of what a guard should understand and represent with respect.

05-04-2011 01:35PM

Carolyyn wrote: »

So it's ok to joke about rape, is it? The least worst way I can describe that attitude is immature.

Moreover this 'joking' was by people who are likely to be investigating this type of crime at some stage in his career. It's no wonder women find it so difficult to report attacks when faced with this and subsequent experience in court. The fact that they didn't know they were being recorded is irrelevant, a Garda in uniform should act and behave in a professional manner and should not make these kind of remarks. Immature gits.

I'm not debating that they weren't immature and that they should be penalized, but my point is that these people were joking in order to relieve stress. People seem to be jumping to the conclusion that this woman was being threatened, which she wasn't. There was more than likely no intention to commit such an act.

Also - have people never said how an exam was torture? Or how you'd murder a cup of tea? Or joked about a person in a racist way?

prinz · 05-04-2011 01:36PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Why not? Garda assets are owned by the state. That is where the comments were made.

Ownership by the state does not make something a "public place". See above k_mac's explanation.

moomooman · 05-04-2011 01:36PM

This is a typically Irish problem, lack of standards, and it pervades all aspects of Irish society.

If we cant expect Gardai on duty to behave in a professional manner that befits their position and responsibilites (and nice wage..) then dont be surprised that the rest of the nation is blighted with corruption and incompetence.

kopfan77 · 05-04-2011 01:39PM

smeedyova wrote: »

This is what the transcript says:

Garda A: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”
Unidentified Garda: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”

The transcript to which I refer is here: http://www.shelltosea.com/content/transcripts-recording

What makes you think that these men were joking? Their alleged words indicate a direct plan of action...

In any case, I don't know how you can defend the suggestion, joking or not, of rape.

Jesus, will you do everyone a favour on here and read or listen to the entire transcript...not just that one piece. Then you may gain some bit of perspective!! Pisses me off when people cant be bothered to at least do that much before posting ridiculous comments

Padkir · 05-04-2011 01:39PM

black francis wrote: »

You think Speeding Jokes are the same as Rape Jokes?

Ah, someone speeds and kills 5 people in a car crash.
Without downplaying rape i would suggest that yes, this is worse!!

It's ridiculous that there is even an argument abut this, it's a complete non-issue! As someone else said earlier, I'd be in jail or hanged by some on this forum if you heard some of my conversations! But the difference is, they're jokes, not what I'm actually planning on doing!

Have any of you never said, "If i see them again, or if they come round here again, I'll kill them...etc, etc." Do you think that a joke about murder should be frowned upon??

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 01:39PM

k_mac wrote: »

They weren't in a public place. But aside from that it would have to proven that the words they used would be liable to provoke a breach of the peace. As all the people invovled in the conversation were laughing this couldn't be proven. On the other hand, if they were in a public area and one of the Gardaí had taken offence to the joke this could be a possible charge.

So it's only an offence if one of the Gardai are offended by what is said.. to hell with anyone else?!

R P McMurphy · 05-04-2011 01:39PM

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

How would such banter have any impact on reporting of rapes?

One of the main reasons for under-reporting of rapes in Ireland is because very often the victim is so drunk they are not quite sure what actually happened.

If someone is raped they go to the cops. If they are not happy with how they are treated they can ask for asssistance from another cop.

Are you for real?

prinz · 05-04-2011 01:41PM

My name is URL wrote: »

So it's only an offence if one of the Gardai are offended by what is said.. to hell with anyone else?!

Can you be offended by something you haven't heard? k_mac was referring to a private conversation with only the members of the force present as was the case we are discussing.

Duggy747 · 05-04-2011 01:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Also - have people never said how an exam was torture? Or how you'd murder a cup of tea? Or joked about a person in a racist way?

One thing I've learned from people in real life, here and around the web is that such things offend them when it suits.

The subject of rape is horrible, but when used in a different context it's to cause a reaction in a form of dark humour. Unless the joke was constructed in such a way I wouldn't find it funny, I'd just dismiss it and carry on. Especially if it wasn't aimed at anyone.

The amount of times South Park and the likes take the piss out of rape (Indiana Jones getting raped by George Lucas comes to mind)

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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