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Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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Comments

  • #152
    volvilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69 ✭✭volvilla


    elviscostello wrote: »
    Huh :confused: They were prisoners.

    Technically. But bringing someone in for questioning and referring to them in that way is very degrading and diminutive.

    More often than not, the term is not used literally, rather in reference to convicts.


  • #153
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    What an intelligent post!

    I reported it for the craic. Who guards the guardsmen etc.


  • #154
    TippFan77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭TippFan77


    Caco wrote: »
    Is this the video?

    I've just found this link to the video. It's amazing this kind of heavy-handed stuff still goes on...

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99445


  • #155
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Macha wrote: »
    I'm not talking about people in pubs, I'm talking about Gardai on duty, in uniform, having just arrested two women. Context is important.

    ....in a private conversation with colleagues to pass the time.


  • #156
    Elbi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭Elbi


    I do agree that it was just a flippant remark made by the Guards but I find it shocking that as men in their profession, who are well aware of what a painful and traumatic experience rape is, go and make a comment like that. It's an utter disgrace. I'm actually sickened by it.
    These men are meant to protect from rapists and the go and make stupid, disgusting comments like that, MORONS!


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  • #157
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    But back on topic. Yeah, they weren't in the same car but guys in uniform shouldn't make these jokes.


  • #158
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    humanji wrote: »
    Read the transcript, listen to the conversation. Do you honestly believe these men wanted to rape the women? There's playing devils advocate, and there's taking the piss.
    Why on earth do you think I think they wanted to rape the women? I have just made reference to them joking. My issue is with their attitude. Talk about strawman.


  • #159
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Plazaman wrote: »
    All this has done is illegally
    Isn't there a law about not been able to use illegally taped evidence in court?
    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    That sums up my feelings quite well. We have an attitude in this country of "ah sure, it was only a joke" that really needs to change.
    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Are all Gardai boggers?
    So your query on the origin of all Gardai wasn't a joke? As many people from the country take offence from being called a bogger, nevermind many Gardai who study hard to become Gardai, who are then belittled by someone on an internet forum purely because some are from the country? Words fail me.


  • #160
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Rabble Rabble wrote: »
    I reported it for the craic. Who guards the guardsmen etc.


    Co Mods, C Mods and Admins.


  • #161
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Buceph wrote: »
    First off, you keep trying to make out that this is gallows humour. It wasn't. Gallows humour needs a gallows to qualify.

    I'm not saying it's gallows humour. You are. It is a dark humour that sometimes includes gallows humour.
    Buceph wrote: »
    Secondly, are you seriously trying to say that people shouldn't report guards being thick? And that they should have kept shtum about a guard saying they would rape someone who they have a duty of care over?

    Not at all. By all means report it to their superiors and the Ombudsman. Releasing a statement to the press that Gardaí threatened to rape you is completely different though and shows the true motivation of them and the lack of understanding of the damage it would cause to actual victims.
    Buceph wrote: »
    Thirdly, the rape crisis centre that you're using to back up the guards have explicitly said this behaviour was unnacceptable.

    Yes. But they also said that in general victim experience with Gardaí is very good.

    EDIT: As to the fourth statement you made, how do you prepare yourself for dealing with a victim of a sex crime? Perhaps you could provide some lessons.


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  • #162
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    And I can't remember a time where me and my mates joked about raping a particular woman. Is it something you and your mates joke about?

    What about raping a particular man? A wisecrack about 'dropping the soap' is a fairly common thing to hear in gym showers/after matches etc. An obvious reference to prison rape. Apparently that's still funny.

    Again though the issue is apparently not what was said, but who it was said by. I thought we had a culture of 'it was only a joke' in this country. That would imply that such a joke would be distasteful everywhere, would it not? If it was a couple of clowns in the pub it would be ok would it?


  • #163
    tfitzgerald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    I wonder what would happen if a member of the Garda heard a member of the public saying " I am going to rape that female Garda" I don't think they would take it as a joke no matter what way it was said. That said this is a storm in a teacup a real case of the pc brigade overacting the Garda are human , he made a joke and it backfired I think it should just be forgotten about. One final observation I have heard that the abuse the Garda get from the shell protesters can be very crude and personal .


  • #164
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Macha wrote: »
    Why on earth do you think I think they wanted to rape the women? I have just made reference to them joking. My issue is with their attitude. Talk about strawman.

    You said:
    As for whether they meant it or not, I'm not sure why you're so well positioned to know their minds..?


  • #165
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    the_syco wrote: »
    Isn't there a law about not been able to use illegally taped evidence in court?



    So your query on the origin of all Gardai wasn't a joke? As many people from the country take offence from being called a bogger, nevermind many Gardai who study hard to become Gardai, who are then belittled by someone on an internet forum purely because some are from the country? Words fail me.

    Heh.

    Well this is AH not the inside of a cop shop/car. So you think I belittled Gardai for asking are all Gardai boggers?

    I truly hope they have thicker skin than that.


  • #166
    Contra Proferentem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Contra Proferentem


    volvilla wrote: »
    Referring to them as "Prisoners" (on the phone) is what annoys me...

    Typical Stanley Milgram experiment in play here
    What are they? Chicken pies? They're under arrest, they're in custody so they are accurately described as prisoners. Of course they're innocent until proven guilty.


  • #167
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    humanji wrote: »
    You said:
    They meant to say what they said. They joke about sexual violence against women with two women in custody. I do not like Gardai who think that is acceptable behaviour.

    It isn't about whether they would actually rape anyone, it's about their dismissive attitude towards sexual violence.


  • #168
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    amiable wrote: »
    Why are foreign people feeling the need to protest there?

    First dey tuk our jobs, den dey tuk our women, now dey are back to take our protests


  • #169
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    prinz wrote: »
    What about raping a particular man? A wisecrack about 'dropping the soap' is a fairly common thing to hear in gym showers/after matches etc. An obvious reference to prison rape. Apparently that's still funny.

    Again though the issue is apparently not what was said, but who it was said by. I thought we had a culture of 'it was only a joke' in this country. That would imply that such a joke would be distasteful everywhere, would it not? If it was a couple of clowns in the pub it would be ok would it?

    A couple of clowns down the pub don't hold such authoritative positions within society so I think your point is moot.


  • #170
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    So you think I belittled Gardai for asking are all Gardai boggers? I truly hope they have thicker skin than that.

    So jokes are now to be judged subjectively rather than objectively. Hmm.


  • #171
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I agree that it's a storm in a tea-cup but they caused the storm themselves so have no sympathy for them.


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  • #172
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    At the end of the day society places trust in certain sections of our society - one of these being the gardai. I think it is right to hold such people to a higher account than other sections of society.
    I know I wouldn't be happy if some of my private conversations with work colleagues were posted in a public forum - but at the same time I've never had a conversations with colleagues or any of my friends where we joked about raping someone.
    You have to wonder about the morality of all the people on this thread defending the conversation as 'no big deal'.

    The one positive from this depressing incident is that these guys will lose their jobs - deservedly so.

    Might send out a message to the rest of the Neanderthals.


  • #173
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    A couple of clowns down the pub don't hold such authoritative positions within society so I think your point is moot.

    I'm not the one on ever-shifting ground. First it was the gardaí in question, then it was a cultural issue, now it's back to being the gardaí in question, so it's no longer a cultural issue. Grand.


  • #174
    _feedback_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    Macha wrote: »
    They meant to say what they said. They joke about sexual violence against women with two women in custody. I do not like Gardai who think that is acceptable behaviour.

    It isn't about whether they would actually rape anyone, it's about their dismissive attitude towards sexual violence.

    But they are just doing a job. They are human. They are joking.

    What if an electrician in a hospital for whatever reason, jokes about the the electrics burning the place down. Should that electrician be sacked?


  • #175
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    black francis wrote: »
    I've never had a conversations with colleagues or any of my friends where we joked about raping someone.

    Do you deal with rape as part of your job?


  • #176
    Newbie_2009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Newbie_2009


    Are ye sure it wasnt the hardy buck sound like them!


  • #177
    Buceph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    k_mac wrote: »
    I'm not saying it's gallows humour. You are. It is a dark humour that sometimes includes gallows humour.

    You say they use that type of humour to cope with stressful situations, which is the definition and purpose of gallows humour. Dark humour isn't predicated on a stressful situation or a need to cope with anything. It's simply expressing something dark. So if this wasn't a case of a stressful situation and a subsequent release of tension related to a "rape" situation, then it was just bloody minded stupidity.

    On the other hand, I have no problem where they referred to the women as crusties and saying they wouldn't do them because they'd probably catch something off them. That to me is a reaction to the situation, and it's fairly harmless. And I have no problem that that refers to a sex act, but that's because it doesn't make light of an abuse of their powers. And similarly I don't have a problem solely with the rape aspect. If they were joking about throwing them down stairs it would be bad as well. The rape aspect of it compounds it because it's such a nefarious subject.

    Not at all. By all means report it to their superiors and the Ombudsman. Releasing a statement to the press that Gardaí threatened to rape you is completely different though and shows the true motivation of them and the lack of understanding of the damage it would cause to actual victims.

    I don't know what any statement the women released said, I'm going on the transcript and the report in the Irish Times. I have no doubts they are releasing this to damage the reputation of the entire Gardia Siochana. But equally I don't think anyone should keep quiet when they have a genuine complaint, and they do have a genuine complaint if not an admirable motive.


    Yes. But they also said that in general victim experience with Gardaí is very good.

    That's a great thing. But you can't use that to excuse these guard's behaviour.


  • #178
    Elbi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭Elbi


    k_mac wrote: »
    Do you deal with rape as part of your job?


    It's shocking that the guards do deal with it as part of their job and they still make jokes about it.


  • #179
    Guill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    elviscostello wrote: »
    But they are just doing a job. They are human. They are joking.

    What if an electrician in a hospital for whatever reason, jokes about the the electrics burning the place down. Should that electrician be sacked?


    He'd never do a job for me, thats for sure.


  • #180
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Macha wrote: »
    They meant to say what they said. They joke about sexual violence against women with two women in custody. I do not like Gardai who think that is acceptable behaviour.

    It isn't about whether they would actually rape anyone, it's about their dismissive attitude towards sexual violence.
    But now you're claiming to know their minds. ;) They made a silly joke. This in no way even suggests that they are dismissive to sexual violence.


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  • #181
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    This is unfortunate for the guards involved. The title of the video says they threatened to rape the protestors. This is a complete distortion of the facts.

    Granted they were stupid to joke in bad taste like this, but is this a crime? I doubt it, but if it is then fair enough they should be pulled up on it.

    There are far worse things they could have done and I would be the first to condemn them for it but on a scale of 1 to 10 this ranks a 0.0001.

    The Shell To Sea people have used underhanded tactics throughout this campaign and have so far potentially done as much harm economically as the bank guarantee to this country. Like it or not we need to send the message that Ireland is open and friendly to oil and gas exploration. Otherwise we will never make a cent or create a job from our oil and gas resources, if they exist.


This discussion has been closed.
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