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Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    They would have had bo reason to complain had this not been recorded. So they were obviously treated well and in a professional manner. The two guards were joking and made a few silly comments.

    It would be very very very different if the comments were made with the two women in the car.

    Ridiculous if they get in trouble over that IMO.

    silly comments!!! they were joking about sexual violence - that's not silly - it's sick and disturbing and violent but not silly

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    But sure, we make those jokes here all the time, and you can be sure that (example) a plumber making a house call today will have banter about a woman after they leave.

    Why should these lads be any different?

    They treated them well, apart from having a private joke, which unluckily for them was recorded.


    joking about sexual violence against a woman under your control isn't banter. It pure and utter misogyny.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    silly comments!!! they were joking about sexual violence - that's not silly - it's sick and disturbing and violent but not silly
    joking about sexual violence against a woman under your control isn't banter. It pure and utter misogyny.

    But it's very clear they are joking. I don't joke about it or find it funny. But I completely realise that they are absolutely not being serious. This trip in the car is just daily routine for them, and they are joking between workmates.

    Yes, the women were "under their control" but they were well treated and would have had no reason for complaint had the recording not been made.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    But it's very clear they are joking. I don't joke about it or find it funny. But I completely realise that they are absolutely not being serious. This trip in the car is just daily routine for them, and they are joking between workmates.

    Yes, the women were "under their control" but they were well treated and would have had no reason for complaint had the recording not been made.

    The women were in a different car with different Gardaí. Only the camera was in the car with the two Gardaí in question.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 645 ✭✭✭chicken fingers


    Of course, nothing will come of this.

    They were on the job. The women were under their care. Not acceptable. Anywhere else, they would be out of a job immediately.
    These lads will have 6 months or a years paid leave and the investigation will give them at most a slap on the wrist and send them back to work. They wont make commissioner but they will still have jobs.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    k_mac wrote: »
    The women were in a different car with different Gardaí. Only the camera was in the car with the two Gardaí in question.

    I know that. That's why the women would have been none the wiser of the joking, and would have had no reason for complaint, as they were well treated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    But it's very clear they are joking. I don't joke about it or find it funny. But I completely realise that they are absolutely not being serious. This trip in the car is just daily routine for them, and they are joking between workmates.

    Yes, the women were "under their control" but they were well treated and would have had no reason for complaint had the recording not been made.


    I have never ever joked about rape with a work colleague even when it was our off time, do you know why? Cos joking about rape ain't remotely funny.

    It really shows character. And good character is a must when you are a defender of peace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    I have never ever joked about rape with a work colleague even when it was our off time, do you know why? Cos joking about rape ain't remotely funny.

    It really shows character. And good character is a must when you are a defender of peace.

    I completely agree with you, it's not funny. Like I said, I have never joked about it either. But obviously it wasn't you or me in the car, and they joked about it for whatever reason they did. That's all it was though, a joke.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    joking about sexual violence against a woman under your control isn't banter. It pure and utter misogyny.

    +1


    Anyways, think this should be raised in the Dail. See if Fionnula thinks it's funny or if he'll direct it to Fianna Fails' Director of Public Prosecutions to be swept under the mat like everything else Berties mates have done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 865 ✭✭✭MajorMax


    If that was Brian Cowen or Ivor callaly joking about they would be lynched by now.

    No they wouldn't, they raped the whole country and they're both still sitting pretty laughing at us


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Of course, nothing will come of this.

    They were on the job. The women were under their care. Not acceptable. Anywhere else, they would be out of a job immediately.
    These lads will have 6 months or a years paid leave and the investigation will give them at most a slap on the wrist and send them back to work. They wont make commissioner but they will still have jobs.

    The women were in the care of different Gardai.

    It was foolish and inappropriate, but not threatening or abusive.

    Is it not the case that covert recordings are not admissable in Court?

    It cannot, as one tried to do, be compared with the behaviour of tv broadcasters, who are in a recording environment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    squod wrote: »
    +1


    Anyways, think this should be raised in the Dail. See if Fionnula thinks it's funny or if he'll direct it to Fianna Fails' Director of Public Prosecutions to be swept under the mat like everything else Berties mates have done.
    That is nothing to do with berties mates or fine fail. The guards have always got away with stuff others wouldnt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Is it not the case that covert recordings are not admissable in Court?

    It wasn't really a covert recording though, it was the cops who neglected to turn off the video camera.

    In effect they recorded themselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Fozzie Bear


    It never ceases to amaze the absolute hyper hysterical reaction topics involving the Gardai (even remotely) get on Boards.

    The usual high horse brigade are out I see weeping and gnashing their teeth and hoping somebody will please think of the children.

    A couple of Gardai blowing off steam among themselves leads to faceless holier than thou, morally superior plebs condemning them as monsters who should be all but hung, drawn and quartered. The fact that those same Gardai receive some of the most hateful bile you can imagine being thrown at them daily up there has no bearing on it. Who remembers the "documentary" by Paul Williams. Drivel that it was it none the less showed some of the sh!te the Gardai had to deal with. One memorable quote "they did not kill half enough of ye fu@kers up there" being screamed by a purple faced lunatic, which referring to the IRA killing members of the Gardai.

    I don't remember seeing any of you Joe Duffy apostles on here defending the Gardai after that. That right there makes you a Hypocrite or does it just suit your particular political slant of things to have a go at the Gardai over a non issue like this while turning the other cheek when its the reverse situation?

    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET A GRIP PEOPLE.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    That is nothing to do with berties mates or fine fail. The guards have always got away with stuff others wouldnt.

    That's because there's only ever been FF or FG governments. The oligarchy which runs this country sees fit to favour it's mates and servants over it's citizens.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    I have never ever joked about rape with a work colleague even when it was our off time, do you know why? Cos joking about rape ain't remotely funny.

    It really shows character. And good character is a must when you are a defender of peace.

    What do you work at if you don't mind me asking? Do you encounter rape victims often in your line of work?

    Have you never heard of hospital staff joking about "vegetables"? Have you never heard of firemen joking about arson? Do you think when talking to a rape victim it is better to be able to listen to them talk or to look horrified at every thing they say? How do you think a person gets to the stage where they can listen to stories from a vicitm without showing emotion? It's a matter of desensitising yourself to the emotional aspect of a crime.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Contra Proferentem


    This situation is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe it's at the top of the news with RTE and the Irish Times plugging it ad nausem.

    It's quite clear the remarks were made in a jovial fashion, while not politically correct or terribly appropriate, such comments can arise when people seek to bring a bit of humour into a conversation after taking part in an odd, but routine arrest following a public order issue.

    I'm not an pro-Shell person, but would come from the position of believing that a better deal could have been got that would have been more beneficial to the country. But this issue has little to do with that. It's clear that the women were well treated once in custody, any complaints may stem from the fact that they failed to comply with lawful instructions and reasonable force had to be used to detain them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    The women were in the care of different Gardai.

    It was foolish and inappropriate, but not threatening or abusive.

    Is it not the case that covert recordings are not admissable in Court?

    It cannot, as one tried to do, be compared with the behaviour of tv broadcasters, who are in a recording environment.

    I understand it was a joke. If it happened in any part of the private sector, they would be fired.

    I for one, would not want them interviewing a sexual assault victim if they can "joke" about such serious matters.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    That is nothing to do with berties mates or fine fail. The guards have always got away with stuff others wouldnt.

    Have you ever been charged with telling a joke, even if it is in bad taste?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    k_mac wrote: »
    What do you work at if you don't mind me asking? Do you encounter rape victims often in your line of work?

    Have you never heard of hospital staff joking about "vegetables"? Have you never heard of firemen joking about arson? Do you think when talking to a rape victim it is better to be able to listen to them talk or to look horrified at every thing they say? How do you think a person gets to the stage where they can listen to stories from a vicitm without showing emotion? It's a matter of desensitising yourself to the emotional aspect of a crime.


    I expect them to be professional, nothing more, nothing less.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    Even if they were joking or not, its inappropriate behaviour and sends out a message to others on the force that this type of behaviour is grand and they can get away with it. Typical of Irish institutions, dont worry about it, it will be grand.. :rolleyes:

    If an example was made of those idiots, it might show the other idiots who manage to get onto the force that this behaviour is not acceptable.

    As other posters have pointed out here, how many other people around the world have lost their jobs because of f*ck ups like this, so why should these two be any different.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    How anyone gives a fuck is beyond me.
    I'd be rotting in the Joy if people heard what I say on a day to day basis.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 635 ✭✭✭Idioteque


    It started off all 'Miachel Moore' like but ended up all dinners, ladders and country & western music'...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    They don't sound like nice people but does that mean every pre-pubescent type on here that makes "hilarious" rape jokes or use rape as a substitute for other verbs on here is a potential rapist?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Contra Proferentem


    On tape: transcripts of recording


    Excerpt from recording by confiscated video camera in a Garda vehicle on March 31st, 2011, after the arrest of two women at Aughoose for public order-related offences relating to the Corrib gas project.

    “Crusty camp” is a reference to the Rossport Solidarity Camp where the two women had been staying.

    Garda A: “Who is them two lassies, do you know the two of them?

    Garda B: “I don’t know the second one, the first one is with blonde hair.”
    Unidentified garda: “She was up on the tractor earlier on.”

    Garda A: “It’d do no harm to get the second one’s name again?

    Garda B: “She’s some Yank. I don’t know who the f**k she is.”
    Unidentified garda: “ Is she a Yank?

    Garda B: “It sounds like it, it sounds like it, the accent anyway
    Unidentified garda: “Sounds like a Yank or Canadian.”

    Garda B: “Well whoever, we’ll get Immigration f**king on her.”

    Garda A: “She refused to give her name and address and told she would be arrested.”

    Garda B : “.......and deported”

    Garda A: “And raped.”

    Garda B: “I wouldn’t go that far yet….. She was living down at that crusty camp, f**k sake, you never know what you might get.”

    Garda A: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”
    Unidentified Garda: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”

    Garda A : “Or I’ll definitely rape you.”
    Unidentified garda: “Will you be me friend on Facebook?”
    (Conversation continues about Facebook in Garda station)
    Excerpt from video camera recording in which gardaí discuss safety and techniques for arrest at protests.

    GARDA A on phone to a colleague: “I know we don’t want to be arresting them but by the same token, we were left with no option. We have an issue there as well with the lads in the protest removal team there, of actual climbing the tractors. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to get safety ropes and ladders and we’re going to leave them in the van in case we have to go up on the cab of the tractor again. So we’re looking after that now at the moment.”

    Garda A: ends call.

    Garda B: “You see at least you’re a sergeant, like.”

    Garda A: “ like some of auld timers who were here in the area in the first and second campaign. I’ll tell you one thing, the decisions that were made policing at that time.”

    Garda B: I’ll still go back to what says there . . . If someone gets hurt we’re going to be on our own in the blocks.”

    Garda A: “. . . I don’t think we’re going to be on our own. If we have exercised due diligence and we have used common sense and used whatever was available to us to remove them. At the end of the day, we have a certain duty of care to them. We ask them to get down, if they don’t get down, we tell them we are taking them down forcefully. We take them down forcefully.
    “We use whatever means at our disposal, which includes ladders and ropes or whatever to get them down safely. If one of them slips, so f**kin. What can we do?”

    Garda B: “Ladders and ropes. All I’m saying is, the point is
    ‘Garda, are you a member of the protest removal team?’
    ’I am.’
    ’Have you received training with working at heights?’
    ’Yes, I have.’
    . . .’How did you train to bring someone down?’
    ’In a harness with ropes.’”
    “We didn’t have any of them options today there . . . That’s all I’m saying. And is dead right; if we’re in the box:
    ’Have you received training on how to take a protester down from heights?’
    ’Yes’.”
    “And if we did it with ropes and harnesses . . . then why did you let my client fall? Did you not go get your ropes and harness to take her down. That’s all.”

    Garda A: “. . .To get them down safely we’d have to erect a scaffold tower beside them and abseil them down. And and, the, the, taking the common-sense approach, and a common-sense view, it would be impractical to erect a scaffolding tower to get them down off it. And we use whatever safe means at our disposal, as we considered safe protest removal team to take them down, ie, ropes and ladders.”

    Unidentified garda: “What was the obstruction?”
    Garda B: “There was no obstruction . . .”

    Garda A: “They were obstructing the road.”

    Garda B: “There was no obstruction . . . The tractors all other vehicles were able to get past.”

    Garda A: “They were obstructing the road. Excuse me. If a car stops there, in the middle of that f***ing road, and it’s stopped there, it’s obstructing the road. It doesn’t have to be blocking it. If it’s parked there it’s obstructing it.”

    Unidentified garda: “Well if nothing else they were obstructing the vehicle.”

    Garda B: “That’s the only vehicle obstructed.”

    Unidentified garda: “. . . free passage.”

    Garda A: “The vehicle was obstructing the road. Just because other vehicles could pass didn’t mean the road wasn’t being obstructed.”
    Garda A seems to get out of the car . . .

    Garda B: “We all said this, it was a safety issue.”

    Unidentified Garda: “It was the best option . It was the best option at that time, there’s no doubt about it.”

    Garda B: “We all said it because of a safety issue. There was three up, there was a wind blowing. And like did you f***ing feel safe, 100 per cent safe going up there taking down two people.”

    Unidentified garda: “No”.

    Garda B: “...I don’t know what you thought?”

    Unidentified garda : “All I know is that if something happens, who’s going to stand f***ing behind me.”

    Garda B: “And do you honestly think that is going to turn around and say “oh look it”. We got trained a certain way.
    ’Garda did you f***ing, take a protester down the way you were trained’.
    ’No I didn’t.’
    ’Well then Guard.’
    “And the job will say were you f***ing trained a certain way. The job will f***ing ditch you.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0405/1224293869992.html?via=rel

    That's the full transcript from the IT. As you can see, far from being the monsters some seek to portray, the Gardai in question were further concerned with the safety of themselves and the protesters with regard to how they could safely detain them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    I understand it was a joke. If it happened in any part of the private sector, they would be fired.

    Eh, having worked in the private sector for many years . . . no they would not


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Who exactly is the wronged party in this situation? Regardless of whether it's funny or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Who exactly is the wronged party in this situation? Regardless of whether it's funny or not.

    To be honest, right now the wronged party are the members of the Gardai that manage to do their job with a bit of ****ing dignity.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rape jokes are a part of popular culture.. This is stupid that anyone could lose their jobs over it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,355 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    It's distasteful and offensive, but it's a throw-away comment in what was believed to be a private conversation.


This discussion has been closed.
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