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Say Goodbye To FF Corruption & Say Hello To FG and Labour Corruption

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Kivaro wrote: »
    It's not as simple as that.
    The tax payer is paying the 50K Salary.

    so?


    You must be confused with the other thread in Politics where you are also defending the nepotism that is going on.

    yep I was. its not about nepotism its about weather it is acceptable to have politician appointed roles, I am saying it is, it dosnt matter that he appointed his wife.
    It's about Accountability and Transparency.
    Nothing confusing about that.

    whats not transparent about it? its an appointed position? he appointed the person he wants there, it couldnt be more transparent


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Samba


    http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/1kenny-calls-for-an-end-to-cronyism63/
    Enda Kenny says the politics of cronyism of the past 13 years must be brought to an end.

    Fine Gael has unveiled its plans to change the political system including a ban on corporate donation, cutting Ministerial pay and witholding pensions from former office holders until they reach the national retirment age.

    Enda Kenny says the political system must show leadership.

    :confused:

    Perhaps we should just listen to what he has to say and then interpret it as the polar opposite, quite fitting by politicians standards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Samba wrote: »
    http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/1kenny-calls-for-an-end-to-cronyism63/



    :confused:

    Perhaps we should just listen to what he has to say and then interpret it as the polar opposite, quite fitting by politicians standards.

    How have you come to the conclusion that Alan Farrell's wife was unqualified for the job?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    Simply saying it's ok if the people hired were qualified for the job is missing two major points.

    Firstly, if the taxpayer is paying for the position at the end of the day there is a ethical obligation imo to find the most qualified person for the position. This necessarily inolves advertising for the position and an objective selection of a candidate.

    Secondly, it may have escaped some peoples attention but there are hundreds of thousands out of work in Ireland at the moment. Those people imo should have a right to enter the race for jobs paid for out of the public purse that they are qualified for regardless of the fact that they may not be related to the people they will work with.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Kivaro wrote: »
    It's not as simple as that.
    The tax payer is paying the 50K Salary.

    So as the bill payer, you would rather he took out a half page ad in the independent, spent a few weeks interviewing potentials, phone calls, envelopes, stamps, and then giving the job to someone for 50k a year? Or making an executive decision and hiring someone he knows he can work with.

    We are trying to save money. This saves money.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    I think a little money on following procedures for transparency is money well spent. Transparency is designed to prevent corruption. Leaving people unchecked lead to the property bubble and the banking crisis which is actually quite expensive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    Politicians .... corrupt?!..... That is unpossible. *


    *Spelling mistake is intentional!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    it is not unethical for a position to be an appointed one

    yes it is...
    we've seen enough corruption from FF over the past decade and quite simply this guy should have known better.
    Even worse Kenny should have pulled him up on it , told him to openly advertise the job and disqualify his daughter from it on the basis that he's alway shown favourtism towards her.
    I've no problem with this guy hiring his daughter...but when the taxpayer is funding his+her salary then I expect it all to be above board and not the cute hoor crap I've seen for the past decade from FF.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    I think a little money on following procedures for transparency is money well spent. Transparency is designed to prevent corruption. Leaving people unchecked lead to the property bubble and the banking crisis which is actually quite expensive.

    As has been said, he hired her as his PA, he didnt hire her to become head of the HSE. And you can hardly compare an elected representative hiring his wife to be his PA to the property bubble or the banking crisis.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭markesmith


    Kivaro wrote: »
    It's not as simple as that.
    The tax payer is paying the 50K Salary.

    No, it is as simple as that. We're taxpayers, not the HR department.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    we've seen enough corruption from FF over the past decade and quite simply this guy should have known better.
    Even worse Kenny should have pulled him up on it , told him to openly advertise the job and disqualify his daughter from it on the basis that he's alway shown favourtism towards her.
    I've no problem with this guy hiring his daughter...but when the taxpayer is funding his+her salary then I expect it all to be above board and not the cute hoor crap I've seen for the past decade from FF.

    Christ give me strength.

    TD Alan Farrell hired his WIFE to be his PA. Eamonn Gilmore's Daughter(who is a solicitor) was offered a job by the AG but she felt there could be a conflict of interest and she turned it down. At least get the story straight before commenting on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    syklops wrote: »
    As has been said, he hired her as his PA, he didnt hire her to become head of the HSE. And you can hardly compare an elected representative hiring his wife to be his PA to the property bubble or the banking crisis.

    Yes I can. It's exactly the same principle on a smaller scale. If you allow a culture of cronyism, it will pervade all levels. From little acorns great oak trees grow. The banking crisis was about the powers that be letting "someone they trust" (fellow member of the old boys network) get on with running the banks because they were "qualified". Not good enough. The public have a right to see what's being done with money they are providing. They are entitled to know that the best person was selected by a fair process.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Yes I can. It's exactly the same principle on a smaller scale. If you allow a culture of cronyism, it will pervade all levels. From little acorns great oak trees grow. The banking crisis was about the powers that be letting "someone they trust" (fellow member of the old boys network) get on with running the banks because they were "qualified". Not good enough. The public have a right to see what's being done with money they are providing. They are entitled to know that the best person was selected by a fair process.

    I appreciate your sentiments, and agree in many ways. Just not over a 50k a year job. Like I said if he had given her the job of Head of the HSE or something then I would be annoyed, and that kind of thing does need to be kept an eye on. But if we were to keep an eye on every PA that every elected official, and every Public Servant hired, we would need to start a brand new Quango to track it all.

    There are serious problems out there, dont get too caught up in the minor ones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    syklops wrote: »
    I appreciate your sentiments, and agree in many ways. Just not over a 50k a year job. Like I said if he had given her the job of Head of the HSE or something then I would be annoyed, and that kind of thing does need to be kept an eye on. But if we were to keep an eye on every PA that every elected official, and every Public Servant hired, we would need to start a brand new Quango to track it all.

    There are serious problems out there, dont get too caught up in the minor ones.

    I agree that hiring procedures can be OTT in some cases. I myself was interviewed by a panel of three people for a ten week summer job as a tour guide when I was a student. But I think there should always be some checks done because a lot of people work for 50k or less and if that's the threshold this could be done over and over again, all adding up. Huge numbers of employees could get, what I perceive to be an unfair advantage, in the recruitment process meaning that huge numbers of others miss out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Well FG are FF lite. Wasn't there a scandal about appointing wives and family members as secretaries in the North too? Think a few had to step down. It isn't on.

    Gilmore's daughter is slightly different. She's highly qualifies in the area and it was as a Junior Counsel. Good to see she turned it down.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    PeakOutput wrote: »

    whats not transparent about it? its an appointed position? he appointed the person he wants there, it couldnt be more transparent

    And Ladies and Gentlemen: If this is the definition of transparency, then your little country is flucked.

    It's amazing that there are still people out there who want 'business as usual'.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭UsernameInUse


    An excellent take on this situation today:
    The point here is that (a) Farrell campaigned against cronyism, then (b) as soon as he was elected he attempted to have his wife co-opted to the County Council and (c) having campaigned against cronyism and having failed to slide the missus into his old job he then appoints his (failed) missus as his PA - at our expense!!!! It doesn't matter which political party one supports (for the record I'm an ardent 'Blueshirt'), this stinks to high heaven of a newly elected FG TD dipping his snout, in the worst FF style, into the taxpayers' purse and if Kenny & Co. don't snuff this out, immediately and unequivocally, they'll get little sympathy & support from any of the electorate. We, the electorate & the taxpayers, are painfully aware, on a daily basis, that the good times are well and truly over, and it's high times the political classes of ALL hues damned well recognised that fact also. FG/Lab promised moral integrity and authority - it's time to deliver. FF were eviscerated because of their par-for-the-course cronyism, corruption and waste - FG promised to deliver a whole new deal, if they don't honour that commitment, and on the basis that in any event everyone expects the high moral ground from FG, they'll be lucky to end up with 20 seats at the next GE if they don't govern with a squeaky clean ethos - and are are constantly seen to be doing so. Farrell may see himself as the poor girls' John O'Donoghue - it's time for his FG/Lab colleagues to point out to the avaricious eejit that JOD-types are headed towards extinction.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,340 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    An excellent take on this situation today:
    At least give credit to the original poster. :)

    http://www.politics.ie/fine-gael/156756-fine-gael-td-hires-his-wife-38.html#post3744076


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭UsernameInUse


    Jonathan wrote: »

    I never took any credit myself? :confused:

    Hence the reason why I posted it in a quotation box...;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,331 ✭✭✭RichieC


    If the wage is public money it should be a public job.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭gerrycollins


    while I dont agree in principal with the appointment, should be via an independant selection group or comittee(another pointless waste of money and whats to say it would work), at least the man is not passing on details to parties of interest in return for money!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Kivaro wrote: »
    And Ladies and Gentlemen: If this is the definition of transparency, then your little country is flucked.

    It's amazing that there are still people out there who want 'business as usual'.

    what is unclear about the process to you?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,340 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    I never took any credit myself? :confused:

    Hence the reason why I posted it in a quotation box...;)
    But with no link back to the original source ;)

    Anywho, I found this gem earlier:

    http://oireachtasretort.tumblr.com/post/4158987594/fg-td-hires-his-wife-link


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭UsernameInUse


    Seems Fine Gael are not the only one's. Everyone is getting in on the action i.e - the public purse. When will the madness end? Are we forever trapped with this kind of politician? Jesus, we were promised change - change as in more of the same.
    LABOUR MINISTER of State Seán Sherlock and Minister of State for Housing and Planning Willie Penrose, along with Ceann Comhairle Seán Barrett of Fine Gael, are among the many TDs who have family members working for them as assistants.
    People Before Profit TD Joan Collins’s partner Dermot Connolly, previously a party organiser, is one of two people job-sharing the parliamentary assistant’s role in the new deputy’s office.
    TDs are entitled to engage one secretarial assistant with a “starting salary” of €23,180, and a parliamentary assistant with a “starting salary” of €41,092.
    When deputies are elevated to ministerial positions, staff they bring with them are paid by the relevant Government department rather than the Oireachtas, according to an Oireachtas spokesman.
    Mr Sherlock’s sister, Úna Willis, is employed as a secretarial assistant based in his Cork East constituency office. “My sister has worked with me since I was a councillor in 2003, and worked with my late father [former TD Joe Sherlock] prior to that time, so she has been part of the organisation for quite a number of years,” Mr Sherlock said. “I’m damned lucky to have her,” he added.
    Mr Sherlock’s party colleague Mr Penrose confirmed his brother worked for him. “My brother Johnnie Penrose continues as my parliamentary assistant, as he has been for the past six years or so,” he said.
    Mr Barrett’s daughter Jaci is employed as his assistant. Mr Barrett said his staffing arrangements were the same as in the 30th Dáil and were already a matter of public record.
    Fine Gael TD Andrew Doyle (Wicklow) confirmed his sister Eithne had job-shared the parliamentary assistant role since summer 2007.
    “As a graduate of the University of Limerick in the area of politics and European studies she is qualified for the job and she’s there on merit,” Mr Doyle said.
    Fine Gael TD Bernard Durkan’s son Tim works in his Dáil office as an assistant. Labour TD for Kildare South Jack Wall confirmed that his son Mark is his parliamentary secretary and has been working with him since 2006.
    Labour TD Michael McCarthy (Cork South-West), who served as a senator prior to the recent general election, said: “In terms of a secretarial assistant, my first cousin has been in this position since 2005. His name is Kevin McCarthy.”
    Fine Gael deputy Alan Farrell (Dublin North) said he had taken on his wife, Emma Doyle, as a temporary parliamentary assistant, “in order to help me set up my office in Leinster House and to clear a large backlog of constituency correspondence”.
    He said recruitment for both the parliamentary and secretarial assistants was ongoing.
    Kerry South TD Brendan Griffin of Fine Gael has hired his wife Roisín as his secretarial assistant and his cousin Tommy as his parliamentary assistant.
    Mr Griffin’s constituency colleague Independent TD Michael Healy-Rae was previously employed by his father, former deputy Jackie Healy-Rae, in his Kerry South constituency office.
    Independent Kildare North TD Catherine Murphy said she had hired both a secretarial assistant and a parliamentary assistant, but neither was in a position to take up the job immediately.
    “As an interim measure I have hired for a period of five weeks a family member, my daughter, in the post of parliamentary assistant,” Ms Murphy said.
    Neither of the people who will eventually fill the positions are related to her, she added.
    Long-serving Labour TD Emmet Stagg said he did not employ any family members but would have no problem doing so, “if they were the best people for the job”. - Posted by Sponge_Bob

    Source: Irish Times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Aishae


    it doesnt seem to matter if someone is the most qualified for a job - if the media gets wind of a relative or friend getting a job close to the TD theyre related to then they wont bother researching the persons CV, the pool of CV's of the people who applied for the job etc. they will shout cronyism and people will follow suit

    it has already been said before that Grainné Gilmore was qualified for the job she got. this p^ssed off the media so they started picking at whatever they could pick at because the crap with the Dail in recent months has really been selling newspapers. Cronyism, nepotism and corruption rumours really sell papers. i dont trust papers to give all the facts anymore. they give some of the facts or colour facts or misrepresent facts or paint facts whatever colour they want, so long as they are still 'facts' in some way. dont believe everything you read.
    but its easy to see why it happens especially in the current political climate


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭UsernameInUse


    Shane Ross has gone on holidays. :rolleyes:
    Not a very good start - I'd imagine the people of Dublin South will want a good reason for his absence - as if the Dail vacations were not long enough.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ross-on-leave-from-dail-for-bank-report-2606554.html


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Looks like O'Rea's juniors have also learned a trick or two...
    THE Healy-Raes are still keeping it in the family -- with new TD Michael hiring his brother Danny as his Oireachtas secretary and giving his vacant council seat to Danny's son.

    Michael Healy-Rae was previously secretarial assistant to his father Jackie, whose Dail seat he has now taken -- and Danny will now take up the assistant's role, which has a starting salary of around €23,000.

    Danny is also a councillor with Kerry County Council, and his son Johnny Healy-Rae will now sit beside him in the council chamber.

    Michael last night said he needed someone he could rely on completely.

    He has kept on Jackie's parliamentary assistant, a position that comes with a salary between €41,092 and €52,200.

    The two brothers were embroiled in controversy last year when this newspaper revealed they were paid almost €110,000 between them for one year's service on Kerry County Council. Danny and Michael were paid a total of €196,000 for 2008 and 2009 in wages and expenses. And mayors, of whom Michael was one, get extra allowances while they hold the office.

    Michael received €74,342 in 2008 and €39,663 the following year, with Danny getting €32,400 and €49,376 for each year respectively.

    Another Kerry South TD, Fine Gael's Brendan Griffin, hired his wife Roisin as his secretarial assistant, his cousin Tommy Griffin as his parliamentary assistant and helped another cousin, Matt Griffin, get his old council seat.

    Mr Griffin (29) made the fact that he would give up €46,000 of a TD's €90,000 salary a central plank of his election campaign. However, his family members will earn more than that with their combined salaries.

    Another Fine Gael TD, Dublin North's Alan Farrell, hired his wife as a parliamentary assistant, but now claims this is a temporary appointment. Mr Farrell previously refused to answer questions on the issue and told the Irish Independent at a function to "go away before I call security and ask them to remove you".

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/michael-hires-his-brother-and-gives-seat-to-nephew-2606563.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭UsernameInUse


    Biggins wrote: »
    Looks like O'Rea's juniors have also learned a trick or two...

    Another Fine Gael TD, Dublin North's Alan Farrell, hired his wife as a parliamentary assistant, but now claims this is a temporary appointment. Mr Farrell previously refused to answer questions on the issue and told the Irish Independent at a function to "go away before I call security and ask them to remove you".

    Is this some kind of sick joke? :eek:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Is this some kind of sick joke? :eek:
    Yes, its called "The operational mode of Irish politics."


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Copper23


    Dublin North Fine Gael TD Alan Farrell has hired his wife as his PA on a salary paid for by the taxpayer. Deputy Farrell failed to get his wife replace him on the Council. Once again we head down the road of cronyism.

    But here's some nepotism for you, thrown in for good measure. Gilmore has his daughter working on a huge case regarding Shell. This is hardly a niche area - add to that she only got her particulars...rubbish.

    Say Goodbye to Fianna Fail's corrupt goons and say hell to Fine Gael and Labour's corrupt goons...I say we call another GE and replace these primary school teachers with professional finance wizards who have experience running multi-billion dollar industries.

    *sigh*...will we ever learn? :rolleyes:

    Months, almost years of all the AH whinging about FF.
    FG was the answer ye told us all, I questioned it and was shot down time after time, now ye got what ye wanted and still not happy!?!?

    This is what ye voted in lads. Ye had every oppertunity not to.


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