Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Freeview HD LG problems

  • 30-03-2011 11:24PM
    #1
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I bought a LG 42LD490 TV a few months ago. It is a Freeview HD model, and works well. However, I have now discoverd that it has not changed the time for the EPG, which stays at GMT. I noticed this with the Picnic box.

    There is a problem with the D Book handling of 'foreign' DTT streams.

    Anyone have any ideas about this, or suggestions?


Comments

  • #2
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I bought a LG 42LD490 TV a few months ago. It is a Freeview HD model, and works well. However, I have now discoverd that it has not changed the time for the EPG, which stays at GMT. I noticed this with the Picnic box.

    There is a problem with the D Book handling of 'foreign' DTT streams.

    Anyone have any ideas about this, or suggestions?

    Likely that it is being dealth with differently in the GMT +1 summertime implementation by each Mux operator or even more likely the TV is populating the epg time from the first Mux it sees and then and populating the Irish accordingly but 1 hour out.
    Which is taking precedent ? Freeview or Saorview. I guess its Freeview as the country setting is UK.

    I doubt you have a GMT+1 option in the menu. Its poulated by the OTA time broadcast.

    Try restoring to default settings and rescanning. Best bet.

    If that doesnt work. Restore to default factory settings and then manually scan the Saorview Frequency first, then add your UK channels.


  • #3
    winston_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1


    This is a common problem when TV's or STB's are used in the "wrong" country. The time defaults to GMT. It's not a problem in winter of course. I have an LG 32LF7700 and receive both Freeview and French TNT on it in the Isle of Wight. In the summer when tuned to a freeview channel the time is right but as soon as I select a TNT channel the time changes to GMT.


  • #4
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,043 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    I have a Sony V4500, the Time Zone is set to GMT. It also has an "Auto DST" setting which is set to "on" which displays the correct time. If I switch off "Auto DST" the time is displayed -1 hr from local time.

    Is there an "Auto DST" function or similar available on other receivers?


  • #5
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The particular TV, LG 42LD490 does not have a country code, it is assumed to be a UK set. It is Freeview HD, and is not compatible with Saorview.

    I can set the time manually, but the EPG time is GMT, no matter what. I think it is because RTE services are not recognised as 'native' services.

    I will get onto LG and see what they say, but I think we have another one of these UK D Book events coming up.


  • #6
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    However it's "more" compatible than any generic non-Saorview, non-"Freeview HD" box.

    So 3 limitations now known with Strict D-Book "Freeview HD".

    Unlike Panasonic, LG do release Firmware upgrades.

    You put the upgrade on a USB memory stick.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    watty wrote: »
    However it's "more" compatible than any generic non-Saorview, non-"Freeview HD" box.

    So 3 limitations now known with Strict D-Book "Freeview HD".

    Unlike Panasonic, LG do release Firmware upgrades.

    You put the upgrade on a USB memory stick.


    No it isn't!

    It is missing one hour of the EPG. All I can do is set the time on the TV to GMT, and live with that. I've not tried that, but it is not satisfactory.

    Freeview HD IS NOT 100% compatible with Saorview.

    1. The above problem with time - Summer time not recognised on the RTE stream.

    2. LCN not supported properly. Channels put in the 800s and not as it is supposed to be. Some TVs can reorganise them, but that is not right.

    3. MHEG 5 teletext taking precedence over old TTX, but it excludes old TTX if there is no MHEG 5 as on TV3 and TG4.

    That is three points of difference that I have found on this piece of equipment. All of them important, and not trivial.

    You should stop pedalling the notion that Freesat HD is compatible. It is not. There could be many more problems. The whole point of getting certified gear is to stop this kind of nonsense.

    I wonder if the **LD490 can be converted to **LD450 with just software?


  • #8
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I have never claimed that "Freesat HD" is 100% compatible. But it's a lot more compatible than most of the generic boxes. "Freeview HD" TV will give all the channels. "Freeview" TVs might not work at all even though some seem perfectly compatible.

    The old teletext will end in 2012 or 2013.

    Only Saorview Certified can claim to be 100% Compatible.

    There are HW differences on LD490 vs LD450. I'd not try that unless LG suggests it.

    The 800s issue and DST time issues could be solved with Firmware updates and still allow the set to be "Freeview HD" compatible.

    This is really down to perennial problem of people like Powercity, and others importing equipment that is meant solely for UK market. There are identical price & size LG sets without these issues.
    Freeview HD IS NOT 100% compatible with Saorview.

    1. The above problem with time - Summer time not recognised on the RTE stream.

    2. LCN not supported properly. Channels put in the 800s and not as it is supposed to be. Some TVs can reorganise them, but that is not right.

    3. MHEG 5 teletext taking precedence over old TTX, but it excludes old TTX if there is no MHEG 5 as on TV3 and TG4.

    That is three points of difference that I have found on this piece of equipment. All of them important, and not trivial. There could be many more problems. The whole point of getting certified gear is to stop this kind of nonsense.
    Totally agree with all of this and people's first choice, especially on TVs, should be certified models.

    There are no true PVRs certified. People that want a good PVR should be aware of issues of "Freeview+ HD" PVR.

    I have on many occasions said the best thing to do about PVR is wait till later when Saorsat starts and review the situation then. Meanwhile a PC or "Freeview+ HD" PVR will record.


  • #9
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    watty wrote: »
    I have never claimed that "Freesat HD" is 100% compatible. But it's a lot more compatible than most of the generic boxes.

    Read your own website, you suggest that Freeview HD is a 'good' option. It has serious shortcomings because of the UK Dbook's shortcomings.
    The old teletext will end in 2012 or 2013.

    Bur MHEG 5 text is not on TV3 or TG4 yet. So until they get the new version of Teletext, I can not see it. Now it does not worry me because I do not use it, but why is it better to not have teletext on two channels than not to have it on one channel?
    Only Saorview Certified can claim to be 100% Compatible.

    Agreed, but many amnufacturers are not going near it.
    There are HW differences on LD490 vs LD450. I'd not try that unless LG suggests it.

    Of course.
    The 800s issue and DST time issues could be solved with Firmware updates and still allow the set to be "Freeview HD" compatible.

    I would not have thought so. It is a question of remaining D Book compatible and going towards Nordig. They won't do it.
    This is really down to perennial problem of people like Powercity, and others importing equipment that is meant solely for UK market. There are identical price & size LG sets without these issues.

    The problem is with these manufacturers as they make TVs for specific regions within the EU with the express intention of dividing and controlling the market. I tried to ask about the situation of someone in Newry trying to receive both UK Freeview and Saorsat on a Panasonic. Panasonics response was that their equipment is not designed to receive non-UK signals. In other words -tough!

    In the end, the EU should have made a certain standard compulsory, and defined what was required in a TV. Nordig is a good start for defining a standard, and it would not take much for the UK to adopt it. However the UK have problems with thing that they did not invent.

    We just have to put up it all.


  • #10
    Souriau
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    I also have the LG LF7700 series
    I notice this is not working correctly
    Time for the Saorvierw channels on on GMT while Freeview is showing correct time with Summer time.
    No subtitles on Saorview but work on Freeview
    Subtitles would be more importance to sort out for the deaf and hard of hearing viewers.


  • #11
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Read your own website, you suggest that Freeview HD is a 'good' option. It has serious shortcomings because of the UK Dbook's shortcomings.



    Bur MHEG 5 text is not on TV3 or TG4 yet. So until they get the new version of Teletext, I can not see it. Now it does not worry me because I do not use it, but why is it better to not have teletext on two channels than not to have it on one channel?

    Out of context quote. Here is what the site actually said:
    A UK “Freeview HD” box or TV (Not a HD Ready or HDTV that only has regular “Freeview”) is next best to a Saorview approved IRD (Setbox or digital TV). If you are near N.I. Border or can receiver UK Terrestrial via and aerial from the IOM or Wales, then “Freeview HD” may be a good choice

    The context was people that can get Freeview.

    However I have updated various pages
    A UK “Freeview HD” box or TV (Not a HD Ready or HDTV that only has regular “Freeview”) is next best to a Saorview approved IRD (Setbox or digital TV). If you are near N.I. Border or can receiver UK Terrestrial via and aerial from the IOM or Wales, then “Freeview HD” may be a good choice, otherwise Saorview Certified is far better.
    Issues with “Freeview HD”

    * Channels may be listed from 800
    * May be no traditional EBU Teletext (may end 2012/2013 anyway)
    * Subtitles might not work
    * May stay on Winter time during Summer (no DST)

    Teletext:
    Analogue isn't turned off till Nov 2012. TV3 and TG4 may have their own MHEG5 pages before then.
    Full Public Launch another 2 months away.
    EBU teletext likely to end in 2012/2013.

    So the two worst issues are the DST and subtitles.
    RTE can fix the subtitles. They ARE using DVB subtitle stream, not Teletext pages. But they have mysteriously chosen teletext as the display mechanism.

    A small LG firmware patch can fix the DST and allow disabling of the 800s without breaking D-Book compatibility. A 3rd party patch may even be possible as many LG run an open version of Linux with source and bootloader available.


    They are unlikely to do anything about the Teletext as that problem will vanish on its own.

    The Teletext display subtitles would be tricky to sort. But possible. In that case since RTE is using DVB anyway, they only have to change one description entry and that's fixed and still Nordig compatible.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I was on to LG and they told me to rescan the TV and that would fix the time problem. I did do that and it did fix it. So two cheers for LG for fixing a problem that should not have been there.

    Teletext is still absent from TV3 and TG4, but there you go.


  • #13
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I was on to LG and they told me to rescan the TV and that would fix the time problem. I did do that and it did fix it. So two cheers for LG for fixing a problem that should not have been there.

    Teletext is still absent from TV3 and TG4, but there you go.

    Exactly which problem did this fix Sam? Subtitles? Time?

    Thanks


  • #14
    Souriau
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Originally Posted by Sam Russell viewpost.gif
    I was on to LG and they told me to rescan the TV and that would fix the time problem. I did do that and it did fix it. So two cheers for LG for fixing a problem that should not have been there.[/QUOTE]
    homer911 wrote: »
    Exactly which problem did this fix Sam? Subtitles? Time?

    Thanks

    He said time, the Summer time is sorted, GMT+1


  • #15
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    I deleted all channels on my LG and rescanned - no difference - Test time, EPG time both 1 hour out


  • #16
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    homer911 wrote: »
    I deleted all channels on my LG and rescanned - no difference - Test time, EPG time both 1 hour out

    Did you try a factory reset ?


  • #17
    Souriau
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    homer911 wrote: »
    I deleted all channels on my LG and rescanned - no difference - Test time, EPG time both 1 hour out
    I done a factory reset on my LF7700 and re-installed all channels, still the same, no different for me, UK Freeview channels show DST while Eire Saorview channels are still GMT.


  • #18
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I was on to LG and they told me to rescan the TV and that would fix the time problem. I did do that and it did fix it. So two cheers for LG for fixing a problem that should not have been there.

    Isnt that the solution that i suggested ?


  • #19
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Actually, I checked again and it is not fixed. The only fix is to manually set the time to GMT and the EPG works, but the time is GMT. If the time is set automatically, the clock is right but the EPG is advenced by one hour so it is useless. I will get back onto LG.

    So much for FreeviewHD being Saorview compatible.:mad:


  • #20
    Trevord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 958 ✭✭✭Trevord


    No issues with the time or EPG on my LG 22 inch bought on Amazon a few months ago.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-M227WDP-22-inch-1080p-Monitor/dp/B001NEI7E8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1301744394&sr=8-2


    Is the issue with time and epg only a problem for people trying to get both Saorview and Freeview on one tv ?


  • #21
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Actually, I checked again and it is not fixed. The only fix is to manually set the time to GMT and the EPG works, but the time is GMT. If the time is set automatically, the clock is right but the EPG is advenced by one hour so it is useless. I will get back onto LG.

    So much for FreeviewHD being Saorview compatible.:mad:

    No one has claimed Freeview HD was compatible with Saorview. Infact a lot of people have been saying that it is unknown what is in the UK Dbook. Does it display the channels for those in border areas, yes. Everything else is a plus. Did you try what I suggested in post #2 ?
    Trevord wrote: »
    Is the issue with time and epg only a problem for people trying to get both Saorview and Freeview on one tv ?

    Yep. Thats where the problem is presented.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    STB wrote: »
    No one has claimed Freeview HD was compatible with Saorview. Infact a lot of people have been saying that it is unknown what is in the UK Dbook. Does it display the channels for those in border areas, yes. Everything else is a plus. Did you try what I suggested in post #2 ?



    Yep. Thats where the problem is presented.

    Initially there was a contention by certain posters on here that [FreesatHD]FreeviewHD was a viable option. I have always said that this was not so as the UK D Book was unpublished so no-one knew wahat was in it.

    The problem originates with the narrow interpretation of standards by manufacturers, for whatever reason.

    My TV is a FreeviewHD model. It does not have a country option, and has a nod towards LCN by allowing an alternative system of channel numbering. It allows a manual or auto setting of time. Manual allows the time to be set to UTC and so the EPG is populated correctly, however all the times on the TV are UTC. Alternatively the time is set to auto and the correct time is set and the EPG info is one hour out. Not a viable choice either way. Retuning and factory resets do not help this issue. I tried this, but I must have misinterpreted the result.

    Why can LG produce two simmilar models (**LD450 and the **LD490), one works and the second does not? The latter has a DVB-T2 tuner while the former has a DVB-T1 tuner.

    This whole business is a mess.


  • #23
    Souriau
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Trevord wrote: »
    No issues with the time or EPG on my LG 22 inch bought on Amazon a few months ago.

    Is the issue with time and epg only a problem for people trying to get both Saorview and Freeview on one tv ?
    No
    I still have it when I done a factory reset and disconnected the Freeview aerial, so that I am just getting RTE DTT
    the LG LF7700 rescan and just pick up RTE DTT 7 TV channles and 10 Radios
    again it is just in the 800 range and still the time is GMT. There is no country setting on this model, it is purely UK model only, as it come with Freesat HD tuner aswell.
    It is an internal issue so that LG will have to sort it. or something else to sort it. ATM it is not bothering me but the subtitles are.


  • #24
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    LG **LD490 is for UK ONLY Freeview HD. Unlike a "pure" UK only "Freeview" TV, it will receive Saorview, so good for South East, North East and North areas that can get real "Freeview", "Freeview HD" and Saorview. No-one ever said "Freeview HD" is 100% compatible, but just that it was "more" compatible than say "TNT HD" or generic Linux Combos as it does have MHEG5 for Text and other applications.

    LG **LD450 is pan-European TV that has only DVB-T, so in UK only does "Freeview". Elsewhere it does HD on DVB-T. UK has no HD on DVB-T.

    They are essentially the same price. PowerCity was selling the 490 and Curry, Argos and Powercity selling the 450. The 490 should thus logically not have been imported.


    A pure "Freeview" UK only TV will not work on Saorview at all.     That's the distinction between "Freeview HD" and "Freeview". It was always pointed out that while a scan, Video, Audio and MHEG5 would "work" it would be unknown what exact incompatibilities would exist and from earliest days was obvious that not all set-boxes and TVs that are "Freeview HD" only are exactly the same in the issues revealed.

    I've taken your points and clarified some pages I've done to highlight what common issues might be. But it's much less than Picnic or CAM (which won't do HD) and all non-MHEG5 gear.

    The only 100% guaranteed solution is Saorview certification.     While the LG xxLD450 and similar LED backlight model (LE series) seem OK, we can't know for sure. Also they will never have Saorview OTA upgrades (though download to USB stick and TV menu upgrade is simple).


  • #25
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Souriau wrote: »
    NATM it is not bothering me but the subtitles are.

    RTE can fix the subtitles without changing or breaking the Saorview spec. Maybe they don't have the playout gear to set the display method setting to DVB instead of teletext. Saorview and RTE certainly support non-Teletext DVB subtitles and the actual content appears to be DVB on at least one channel, rather than teletext pages. But delivery method is set to Teletext, which isn't going to work ever on a "Freeview HD" only box or TV.


  • #26
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Initially there was a contention by certain posters on here that FreesatHD was a viable option. I have always said that this was not so as the UK D Book was unpublished so no-one knew wahat was in it.

    The problem originates with the narrow interpretation of standards by manufacturers, for whatever reason.

    My TV is a FreeviewHD model. It does not have a country option, and has a nod towards LCN by allowing an alternative system of channel numbering. It allows a manual or auto setting of time. Manual allows the time to be set to UTC and so the EPG is populated correctly, however all the times on the TV are UTC. Alternatively the time is set to auto and the correct time is set and the EPG info is one hour out. Not a viable choice either way. Retuning and factory resets do not help this issue. I tried this, but I must have misinterpreted the result.

    Why can LG produce two simmilar models (**LD450 and the **LD490), one works and the second does not? The latter has a DVB-T2 tuner while the former has a DVB-T1 tuner.

    This whole business is a mess.

    I dont understand your reference to Freesat HD.

    The problem does not originate with the narrow interpretation of standards by manufacturers. The narrow interpretation is relating to Freesat/DVB-T combos that Panasonic released. That is a diffrent matter completely.

    You have bought a specific UK LG model in the 490. You chose to do that despite the warnings of posters here. The 450 is a pan european model and does not comply with Freeview HD spec but rather ETSI standards. The open use of MHEG5 is allowed in the 450 because LG implemented it that way they have their own MHEG5 engine.

    LCN. Logical Channel Numbering. You think the inclusion of allowing the changing of the order and numbes of channels is a nod towards its use in other countries ? Did it dawn on you that it is to allow people in the UK re-order the channels according to their tastes and preferences!

    It is not a mess. You have chosen a UK spec model DVB-T2 tuner thinking that the software would be compatible with Ireland. Do you think it is LG's fault ?

    Lastly, Did you try the steps in post #2 ? Reset to default. Tune the Irish manually then manually add the UK.


  • #27
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    I don't think Sam has Freeview channels at his location. He's just using a UK spec LG TV to scan Saorview. My view is that it's the IRL country flag in the time stream (TOT) that is being ignored by the LG firmware and thus is using the UTC time in the EIT stream without applying the IRL time offset of one hour for summertime. As you say, the pan-european model would have code to interpret the different country time offsets. The reference to "Freesat" was a typo I would guess.


  • #28
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    STB wrote: »
    I dont understand your reference to Freesat HD.



    You have bought a specific UK LG model in the 490. Y
    Typo I think. He means Freeview HD


    Powercity was selling them in Ireland.

    The biggest problem isn't the Information Campaign, but Distributors, Importers and the refusal of retail to CLEARLY label the functionality of TVs, since March 2008.


  • #29
    Souriau
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    I contacted LG UK customer support and told them of a few problems I am having with the LF7700 TV,
    I told them of time not correctly displayed for Saorview while on Freeview is OK
    also I am not receiving subtitles from Saorview but is OK on Freeview.
    They told me that they can sent me a firmware update to sort that out
    I will keep you inform how it will go.


  • #30
    Crystalset
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭Crystalset


    O then someday I'll go etc. Should I buy a LG **ld490/Samsung le**c580/ Sony **ex403 in UK or wait for fully complient (dearer?) Saorview tv from Power City or elsewhere.
    My 8yr. Panasonic TX-32PS1 still providing a great picture with a Daewoo pvr. Alas to move it would require a crane & an empty ferry.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    egal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭egal


    watty wrote: »

    The only 100% guaranteed solution is Saorview certification.     While the LG xxLD450 and similar LED backlight model (LE series) seem OK, we can't know for sure. Also they will never have Saorview OTA upgrades (though download to USB stick and TV menu upgrade is simple).
    So, Watty, just to be clear, the LG "LE" series Freeview HD TVs are OK for Saorview, as far as we know at the moment: specifically, they will do subtitles and correct time in Summer, as well as text. Subtitles essential for me.


Advertisement