Michael Lowry: are "the people of North Tipperary" utterly stupid?

mikemac · 31-03-2011 12:30AM

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know why people find this so unusual and confusing. He helped them and they like him for it, it's basic human behaviour. Most people don't see the government helping them so when they elect someone who does help them they are loyal supporter from then on.

I don't find it unusual at all

What I find confusing is Tony Gregory held up as some working class hero while Lowry and Jack Healy Rae are held up as gombeens
Holding the government to ransom must be only acceptable for TD's in Dublin

RobAMerc · 31-03-2011 12:32AM

feelingstressed wrote: »

I don't find it unusual at all

What I find confusing is Tony Gregory held up as some working class hero while Lowry and Jack Healy Rae are held up as gombeens
Holding the government to ransom must be only acceptable for TD's in Dublin

in fairness - people hate Lowry coz he's a crook.but I agree with your comparison of JHR and Gregory though - no difference.

P_1 · 31-03-2011 12:33AM

feelingstressed wrote: »

I don't find it unusual at all

What I find confusing is Tony Gregory held up as some working class hero while Lowry and Jack Healy Rae are held up as gombeens
Holding the government to ransom must be only acceptable for TD's in Dublin

In a nutshell, yes

9_Iron · 31-03-2011 12:45AM

pithater1 wrote: »

I can see the logic in the folk of North Tipp electing Lowry in the last few elections, afterall the likely Dail was going to be tight and having an independent TD (Lowry) fighting your corner as their vote for the government would only be good for North Tipp.

However, the dogs on the street could tell you that the current Dail would have a massive majority government and independent TDs would only be good for offering some comic value on VB and the likes. So in essence you could call the people of North Tipp utterly stupid for electing Lowry in 2011.

TL;DR
2007 election, Lowry can bring goodies back to North Tipp, electing him makes sense.
2011 election, Lowry can bring SFA back to North Tipp, electing him makes no sense.

Er, not quite.......
I take it you don't recall the (persistent) talk of Fine Gael going it alone in government with the help of "like-minded" independents: if I recall correctly, that option only began to be ruled out once the exit polls made it obvious that FG would be in the mid-70s rather than 80+ seats and thus FG-Labour was the better option for a strong government.

I'm in Lowry's constituency (albeit one of the "blow-ins" due to the boundary changes), and I didn't vote for him because:
- I'm not keen on Independent representation and the localism/parish-pump politics it encourages; and
- he has far too much baggage attached (even before Moriarty)

Yet, I do have to wonder where people get off insulting entire electorates for their voting habits: Lowry has a very good electoral team around Thurles and beyond (his was the only Independent canvassing team that called to my house) and receives a very strong personal vote from people who like him for his efforts in the local community/because he's a local fellow made good/to stick two fingers up at the Dublin media or whatever.....
Feel free not to agree with their reasoning.

But less of the arrogance, condescension and 'holier than thou' attitudes please - it's pretty sad.

trackguy · 31-03-2011 12:46AM

In Ireland we have a remarkable tolerance for inepitude in our elected representatives.

If we contrast this with the US and the UK, who we see the most coverage of in our media, we are far more likely to put up with gob****es.

Why? A number of reasons,

We love 'a cute hoor.' Get one over the fat cats up in big smoke and all that...

There is no culture of resignation. Politicians seem to resign all the time in the UK, not here! 'Just ride it out Michael, they'll forget after a while'

This pains me to say it but there is an attitude throughout Irish life of 'Ah sure, it'll do.'

When it comes down to it, we just don't care enough to punish ignorance and dishonesty and seek out and promote honesty, hard work and competence.

9_Iron · 31-03-2011 12:54AM

whydoibother? wrote: »

A few hundred, enough to make the news, but when you consider that the population of Thurles is only a few thousand and only a fraction of people with a given view will ever be moved to take to the streets, it's clear he has massive support. He topped the pole with two quotas in the election.

Thurles is a town of 7,000, give or take, with another 1,000 in the hinterland, so a few hundred on the streets wouldn't strike me as massive support.
It is, however, his heartland and he clearly has some support there, though that is sure to have taken a hit given the recent revelations: some of his loyal supporters are probably unmoved by anything in the Moriarty report; others are likely to be less keen.

He was also nowhere near two quotas: he was 2,000 votes over the 12,000ish quota.

HalloweenJack · 31-03-2011 01:01AM

feelingstressed wrote: »

What I find confusing is Tony Gregory held up as some working class hero while Lowry and Jack Healy Rae are held up as gombeens
Holding the government to ransom must be only acceptable for TD's in Dublin

You're completely missing the point (maybe, deliberately).

It's nothing to do with where people come from. Lowry is a crook. He dodged tax and he abused his position of power for his own personal gain. If he was a Dub, he'd be getting as much stick as he is.

ScumLord · 31-03-2011 01:04AM

trackguy wrote: »

If we contrast this with the US and the UK, who we see the most coverage of in our media, we are far more likely to put up with gob****es.

George W. Bush, elected twice.

mikemac · 31-03-2011 01:06AM

trackguy wrote: »

If we contrast this with the US

I will agree with you that in the UK, politicans tend to resign over scandels

But the USA? You kidding me?
They invented the term "pork barrel" politics.
Where every army base and defence contract in their area is vital and needs funding.

Every bill and new idea can have local issues tacked onto it for support. Votes are for sale.

Ireland has issues but the USA is not something we want to model

ColeTrain · 31-03-2011 01:15AM

If he can build that casino then I'm sure all will be forgiven

Stinicker · 31-03-2011 01:18AM

Lowrys cronies and the morons in Kilgarvan in Kerry who support the Healy Raes. If ever the genepool of Ireland needed a good scrubbing it is both of these town. I think we offer up both the Healy Rae village and Lowrys losers to IAEA as possible test sites for Nuclear testing and various experiments of the f*cktard locals.

mikemac · 31-03-2011 01:19AM

Stinicker wrote: »

I think we offer up both the Healy Rae village and Lowrys losers to IAEA as possible test sites for Nuclear testing and various experiments of the f*cktard locals.

Better include the locals in the flats in Dublin Central. They elected Tony Gregory and held the government to ransom.

But can we do nuclear testing in Dublin Central

Stinicker · 31-03-2011 01:28AM

feelingstressed wrote: »

Better include the locals in the flats in Dublin Central. They elected Tony Gregory and held the government to ransom.

But can we do nuclear testing in Dublin Central

You cannot seriously be comparing Tony Gregory to both Lowry and the Healy Rae gangsters. The mind boggles

Nevermind_ · 31-03-2011 01:38AM

If we sacrificed Lowry to the great spaghetti monster/Atari Jaguar in the sky do you think we could have Dermot Morgan back instead?
He'd have a field day with the current goings on in this country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKK8eAlASy4

Hunter Mahan · 31-03-2011 01:48AM

It is an embarrassment to the whole country the support he receives, any other politician would do the same for the county of Tipperary if elected.
They blindly follow a crook because he got them a medical card/fixed a road, it's pathetic, embarrassing and says a lot about the intellect and morals of the people who vote for him..

Dempsey · 31-03-2011 01:55AM

I'm going to vote for him in the next General Election just to piss off the d!ckheads in this thread.

BrockSamson · 31-03-2011 03:04AM

Dempsey wrote: »

I'm going to vote for him in the next General Election just to piss off the d!ckheads in this thread.

good god i hope your a troll :rolleyes:

Dempsey · 31-03-2011 03:12AM

BrockSamson wrote: »

good god i hope your a troll :rolleyes:

What squeaky clean politician did you vote for?

markesmith · 31-03-2011 03:21AM

Dempsey wrote: »

What squeaky clean politician did you vote for?

Even Dirty MacDirtson, the winner of durtiest politician in all of Dirtville (Thurles) would get my vote above Lowry.

It's voters like you, with your ironic sycophancy, that get this gombeen his seat.

9_Iron · 31-03-2011 10:34AM

Hunter Mahan wrote: »

They blindly follow a crook because he got them a medical card/fixed a road, it's pathetic, embarrassing and says a lot about the intellect and morals of the people who vote for him..

No, it doesn't.
I'd wager it says far more about the influence of localism on our political system and the fact that a TD doing good work for a (relatively) small area of a constituency will always give him/herself a strong chance of re-election.

For a start, I'd like to see fewer TDs, so that quotas become higher and being a great representative (a.k.a. fundraiser) for Thurles/Mallow/your choice of decent-sized county town won't be enough to get you in next time.
With any luck, a TD's performance on the national level would become more important to their chances of getting in again.

Snakeblood · 31-03-2011 10:38AM

sock puppet wrote: »

Calling people stupid isn't really the way to get through to them.

Publicly shaming the man they adore and finding him guilty of massive corruption doesn't seem to do the trick either.

K-9 · 31-03-2011 10:54AM

Oh this again, subscribes and gets popcorn.

9_Iron · 31-03-2011 10:57AM

Snakeblood wrote: »

Publicly shaming the man they adore and finding him guilty of massive corruption doesn't seem to do the trick either.

Not for the small sample interviewed on TV3 or the stalwarts who turned up at the Anner Hotel recently, no. They are Lowry voters full-stop and good luck to them: I won't be following their lead (ever!), but they see things they like in the man and they vote accordingly.

For the overwhelming majority (>70%) of the constituency, though, he didn't get a first preference last time and won't get if from them next time either.
And I'd be fairly confident in saying that any swaying voters who went with him last time for whatever reason (FFers who didn't want to vote for the party this time around, perhaps) would run a mile from him next time around.

Dempsey · 31-03-2011 11:04AM

markesmith wrote: »

Even Dirty MacDirtson, the winner of durtiest politician in all of Dirtville (Thurles) would get my vote above Lowry.

It's voters like you, with your ironic sycophancy, that get this gombeen his seat.

You admit, in theory, you'd vote for a more crooked politician than Lowry out of some misguided principle then you have the cheek to try lecturing me about politics? LOL

GerM · 31-03-2011 11:04AM

.same. wrote: »

Can you name for me the constituencies that would not vote in someone like lowry?

I'm glad to say Dublin NC ditched Callely after he was shown to be a liar and a thief so, whilst the small minded logic is not localised to Tipp north, there are places that will react to these types. Callely was ditched long before his expense scandals came out either.

munchkin_utd · 31-03-2011 11:07AM

9_Iron wrote: »

No, it doesn't.
I'd wager it says far more about the influence of localism on our political system and the fact that a TD doing good work for a (relatively) small area of a constituency will always give him/herself a strong chance of re-election. t you in next time.

It is.
He is Mr Fixer of Tipperary. Jackie Healy Rae without the cap.

If you need a passport in a hurry, or pull to get planning permission he's your man.

NOW.....
Thats not supposed to be the job of a NATIONAL politican.
But, in modern day Ireland it's what the job of a politican has in reality grown to BE.

Look, even O Donohue who was the neutral man in the Dail as ceann camhairle, kept his "surgery" to look after locals - and booked secretary costs to aide him with it.

Callely, who was claiming that his residence was in Cork when sitting in the consiituency-less Seanad, kept his Dublin office for and on the ground presence to be there to sort favours for Constituents.

Lowry is a sign of the perversneness of the Irish political system, that is so caught up in low level pothole politics that this becomes the be all and end all.

francois · 31-03-2011 11:10AM

Lowry and other ridiculous parish pump politicians' time has come. They are neutered now that the govt. has such a large majority.

9_Iron · 31-03-2011 11:11AM

GerM wrote: »

I'm glad to say Dublin NC ditched Callely after he was shown to be a liar and a thief so, whilst the small minded logic is not localised to Tipp north, there are places that will react to these types. Callely was ditched long before his expense scandals came out either.

Was Callely not ditched in 2007 chiefly because the boundary was re-drawn and the constituency lost a seat?
Had it remained a 4-seater, he would have cruised in.

GerM · 31-03-2011 11:19AM

9_Iron wrote: »

Was Callely not ditched in 2007 chiefly because the boundary was re-drawn and the constituency lost a seat?
Had it remained a 4-seater, he would have cruised in.

Quite true. I take you point but Callely had strolled home as the top candidate previously. If people wanted him, he would have been elected. He dropped massively and it should be taken into account that the other candidates weren't particularly strong. This was a long standing FF politician not being elected in the boom years. It wasn't the norm.

9_Iron · 31-03-2011 11:30AM

GerM wrote: »

Quite true. I take you point but Callely had previously strolled home as the top candidate previously. If people wanted him, he would have been elected. He dropped massively and it should be taken into account thaT the other candidates weren't particularly strong. This was a long standing FF politician not being elected in the boom years. It wasn't the norm.

Yes, that's a fair shout, he was a very high profile faller at a time when FF were still polling strongly.
And doubtless if all the revelations that emerged afterwards had come out pre-2007 election, he would have suffered an even worse drop in support.

Michael Lowry: are "the people of North Tipperary" utterly stupid?

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