Welsh digital switch over-Irish reception questions answered

joceadaigh · 18-03-2011 10:22PM

In Kilcoole here, been following these threads for a while hoping someday an easy solution to UK freeview would appear.

Existing (presume wide-band) arial pointing towards Arfon is not receiving anything after digital switchover, although a small set-top box bought in UK some years ago did pick up some pictures while it was still on low power, but only during extremely good weather.

Know others who receive freeview through existing grid arial, are on higher ground if that makes much of a difference, but wonder if Blaen-Plwyf is an option here since it carries more channels.

cnocbui · 18-03-2011 10:56PM

joceadaigh wrote: »

In Kilcoole here, been following these threads for a while hoping someday an easy solution to UK freeview would appear.

Satellite?

Sam Russell · 18-03-2011 11:49PM

joceadaigh wrote: »

In Kilcoole here, been following these threads for a while hoping someday an easy solution to UK freeview would appear.

Existing (presume wide-band) arial pointing towards Arfon is not receiving anything after digital switchover, although a small set-top box bought in UK some years ago did pick up some pictures while it was still on low power, but only during extremely good weather.

Know others who receive freeview through existing grid arial, are on higher ground if that makes much of a difference, but wonder if Blaen-Plwyf is an option here since it carries more channels.

I got reception in the centre of Bray a year ago from BP, not sure how good it would be in Greystones. Also got signals from Llandonna as well. Did not try Arfon, as it is Vetical, but that would be a better bet.

Must try again.

19-03-2011 01:57AM

A good group b vertically polarised aerial and powered mast head amp will do the job pointed to arfon.
It does work up there,I know someone who had it set up.You just need a proper working aerial,serviced well and pointed correctly-many aerials used be pointed slightly wrong,many have cable and junction box faults that probably need fixing before you can get reliable digital reception.
Satellite is good yes but once you go freeview...you never go back

Seriously though,it's a handy multi room tv option.I have it here in every room in south wicklow with satelite as a back up.

joceadaigh · 19-03-2011 11:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

A good group b vertically polarised aerial and powered mast head amp will do the job pointed to arfon.

Does that mean Blaen-Plyf is out then? obviously more channels would be preferable.

Deleted User wrote: »

It does work up there,I know someone who had it set up.You just need a proper working aerial,serviced well and pointed correctly-many aerials used be pointed slightly wrong,many have cable and junction box faults that probably need fixing before you can get reliable digital reception.

Ye as I said before I know others recieveing through their existing aerial so I know Arfron should be good. Do suspect problems with our aerial as for some reason we always had less qualitity analogue than the neighbours.

Deleted User wrote: »

Satellite is good yes but once you go freeview...you never go back

Have free to air satellite for main TV.

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously though,it's a handy multi room tv option.I have it here in every room in south wicklow with satelite as a back up.

We have 5t vs around the house, I think Freeview would be more suitable. We will probably always keep Satellite in main room too but like you more as backup to freeview.

Sam Russell · 19-03-2011 11:38AM

joceadaigh wrote: »

Does that mean Blaen-Plyf is out then? obviously more channels would be preferable.

No, I got BP as well.

The problem is that the three obvious candidates are BP, Arfon and Llandonna and they all require different aerials. I used a wide-band grid aerial with a masthead amp.

BP is a group A antenna, H. Arfon is a group B, V, and Llandonna is a gropu E H. I did not try Arfon because I had a wideband aerial mounted on a pole and it would have meant taking down the pole and adjusting the aerial on the roof of a tall building. I got BP OK, and Llandonna, both of which have full freeview. I did not have a T2 TV so I was not looking for HD. I got several copies of the channels from Llandonna so it should give reasonable results, but it needs more work.

I think I will try again, but this time I think I should try with a decent metre so I can get a better idea of signal strength.

The other problem is to do with the distance. You can get good results one day and nothing the next.

If you get some signal, you can work on getting a better signal.

19-03-2011 11:48AM

B-P is not reliable in kilkoole,I know it was tested up there on a meter and there wasn't a whisker of it available.

It's a strange tx.It works in Rathdrum for instance and outside Roundwood.
So arfon is your only man.
It's freeview light but you will have hd channels if you have a freeview hd receiver.

joceadaigh I've sent you a pm.

lgs 4 · 19-03-2011 05:19PM

freeview from wales is good for anyone that can get a good stable signal all year round but from a HD point of view there is no more bandwidth for HD channels on freeview at the moment with C4HD and also maybe E4HD coming to freesat

Vince Cable · 19-03-2011 05:44PM

I don't see how terrestrial reception at that distance can be reliable unless you're on high ground; at least satellite takes the earth's curvature out of the equation.
Integrated Freesat tvs (if only people bought enough to bring the price down) with terrestrial feeds also from a multiswitch should be a mainstream home distribution prospect at this stage (what's a few extra cables?).

Sam Russell · 19-03-2011 05:45PM

lgs 4 wrote: »

freeview from wales is good for anyone that can get a good stable signal all year round but from a HD point of view there is no more bandwidth for HD channels on freeview at the moment with C4HD and also maybe E4HD coming to freesat

Well, the next stage for the UK is to change one of the pub muxes to DVB T2/MPEG4 once their is enough installed base of T2 enabled TVs and STBs. Perhaps 5 years time there may be enough. Or perhaps the comm muxes will move first.

cnocbui · 19-03-2011 06:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Satellite is good yes but once you go freeview...you never go back

In what way is Freeview superior to Freesat?

joceadaigh · 19-03-2011 07:56PM

Thanks everyone for your replies... as I said before I followed these arguements last year when trasmitter power was increased so I was hoping someone would be able to give a definate answer at this stage. To be honest I think Arfon might be the only reliable source, was hoping someone could confirm BP worked over the winter months but obviuosly not.

Looks like it will be a mix of Saorview/Freeview light/Free-to-air sat.

How will my ould lad deal with all the controls in his old age.:D

Sam Russell · 19-03-2011 08:00PM

cnocbui wrote: »

In what way is Freeview superior to Freesat?

It can be distributed around a house with no problem with a diasy chain cabling. Freesat is a satellite signal and each receiver needs to be cabled back to the dish, with two cables for a PVR function.

Sam Russell · 19-03-2011 08:01PM

joceadaigh wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your replies... as I said before I followed these arguements last year when trasmitter power was increased so I was hoping someone would be able to give a definate answer at this stage. To be honest I think Arfon might be the only reliable source, was hoping someone could confirm BP worked over the winter months but obviuosly not.

Looks like it will be a mix of Saorview/Freeview light/Free-to-air sat.

How will my ould lad deal with all the controls in his old age.:D

BP is just that bit too far for relible signals.

watty · 19-03-2011 08:04PM

cnocbui wrote: »

In what way is Freeview superior to Freesat?

One box or TV for Irish + UK.

BUT.. very few will ever have it. The rest of us that "have to use" Freesat might get Saorsat later in the year.

Since there are a lot of UK channels and will only ever be a few Irish ones, Saorview + Freesat isn't a big deal.

lgs 4 · 19-03-2011 08:54PM

joceadaigh wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your replies... as I said before I followed these arguements last year when trasmitter power was increased so I was hoping someone would be able to give a definate answer at this stage. To be honest I think Arfon might be the only reliable source, was hoping someone could confirm BP worked over the winter months but obviuosly not.

Looks like it will be a mix of Saorview/Freeview light/Free-to-air sat.

How will my ould lad deal with all the controls in his old age.:D

well ask your dad can he handle three remotes but if you get humax hd pvr freesat box the remote will also work the tv and the same with humax freeview pvr hd +:rolleyes:

cnocbui · 19-03-2011 09:25PM

watty wrote: »

One box or TV for Irish + UK.

BUT.. very few will ever have it. The rest of us that "have to use" Freesat might get Saorsat later in the year.

Since there are a lot of UK channels and will only ever be a few Irish ones, Saorview + Freesat isn't a big deal.

I think I more or less already have that. I have a Pansonic TH-50PZ81B TV. I get all the freesat channels and the DTT channels like RTE 24 and all using the one remote. Are there UK freeview channels that are not on freesat or something?

watty · 19-03-2011 10:19PM

A few.

reslfj · 19-03-2011 10:40PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

BP is just that bit too far for relible signals.

Arfon is over 600 m above see level - BP only about 325 m.

Lars

19-03-2011 11:55PM

cnocbui wrote: »

I think I more or less already have that. I have a Pansonic TH-50PZ81B TV. I get all the freesat channels and the DTT channels like RTE 24 and all using the one remote. Are there UK freeview channels that are not on freesat or something?

five star and five usa from presely but not from arfon.
Multiroom is much much easier with freeview.
One cable from the aerial and then a distribution amplifier cabled to as many other rooms as you like.Any mpeg4 tv will work.
A freeview hd tv will do the hd stuff.

I get my freeview from presely,theres something cool about having the likes of itv1 hd london off an aerial in every room.
The quality is amazing as it is on freesat.

watty · 20-03-2011 12:16AM

I have coax from Multswitch in every room. But a setbox is needed unless you want to buy overpriced TV.

Over 80% of Ireland can never get Freeview and has to use Dish feed. I hope for the rest of us that can't get Welsh, IOM or NI, who want a decent PVR that Saorsat works out.

20-03-2011 09:26AM

To be fair watty,anyone replacing an old tv now will be getting an mpeg 4 tv It remains to be seen what penetration south NI high power dso will have but geographically,catchment home population is probably closer to 30% than 20 unless there are severe nulls[3 ulster counties,much of north connaught and north leinster].

That said,this thread is about welsh dso which has happened and is possible in all coastal urban centres from Dublin south to Rosslare.
In theory with the right equipment,that's the 40k homes that had welsh analogue originally if they wanted.
More if you include catchment area rather than homes that had it.
Many who could...either had cable and still have or went sat.

watty · 20-03-2011 09:56AM

Anyone that ever had Analogue NI or Welsh should certainly get Digital via Aerial, inc HD. I'm all for it. Just pointing out that many have no choice and it's not the disaster it was in 1980 or whenever if your reception via Aerial is unreliable.

However it's not worth having the giant masts you see on the Naas Road even though the Freeview has a few different channels and is simpler and cheaper.

Folks that can get UK aerial signal should of course buy "Freeview HD" certified TV or Set-box and not "Saorview" or "Freeview" to avail of all Saorview, Freeview and Freeview HD services, not just an "MPEG4 TV" Not a "Freeview" TV that happens to claim to be "Full HD".

Dublin isn't going to go back to the Forest of Giant Masts of pre-Cable Days. A Dish makes more sense.

It's great for those that can get it. But unlike 1955 till start of FTA UK Satellite, there is the cheap alternative of the Dish if the mast is going to be too big, or reception not reliable. Saorsat may be an interesting game changer especially for PVR for those without reliable Freeview.

Also unless you can get the com muxes, presumably the Freesat is better lineup?

Maybe you would like to help re-write this: http://www.saortv.info/channels/uk-televison/
Includes

There are about 27 TV channels and and the main national FM and DAB stations on Freeview. Basic Freeview Receiver is DVB-T with MPEG2 and is no good for Saorview. A newer Freeview HD receiver will pickup HD in some areas as well as the regular Freeview. A CAM slot (with CAM) or built in CAM for a viewing card is needed for the small number of channels on “Subscription” Top Up TV (includes Sky Sport).

Only people near the Border with N.I. or larger aerials for Analogue N.I. TV or Welsh TV (parts of east coast and south east coast) can receive Freeview or Freeview HD. The HD is on some Welsh Transmitters but not on N.I. till 2012. Analogue has ceased in Wales and in 2012 when it ceases in N.I. the Southern and Donegal Digital coverage (Freeview) will increase.

Now that the www.saorview.ie site is so good I want to minimise the Saorview content of that site to the minimum and have expanded sections on
* Freeview HD
* Freesat HD
* Free or FTV mainland European Reception
* How to distribute TV and satellite
* How to set up Media PC on XP, Windows 7 and Ubuntu
* Home streaming of live TV reception.
* Quad Array yagi DIY for DX TV

FREETV · 20-03-2011 10:08AM

An excellent idea Watty, I'm sure that we will find the new information which you propose on the site very useful and informative. You will be known as the deity of television, radio and electronic circuits. Nobody else can touch your knowledge and the help which you give here on boards. For those about to post we salute you!

joceadaigh · 24-03-2011 01:38AM

Just a quick update...
Before posting my first question last week I changed region setting on our Phillips TV to UK and did a channel scan. Obviously only the Irish channels were picked up or I wouldn't have posted my question. However changing the region also selected the 'Update channel list on standy' function I didn't know about before. Over the past few days the PSB1 and PSB2 muxes from Arfon appeared although pictured were only received for a couple of hours each day... today COM4 from Llanddona showed up in the channels list but no pictures

So is Llanddona a contender for reliable reception, or is this strictly weather dependent?

I've noticed from ukfree.tv that Llandonna reception map covers parts of the wicklow mountains west of Kilcoole, is this because of the height?
Also Blaen-Plwyf is broadcasting twice the strenght as Llanddona... surely there is some hope there...

Guess it will come down to the professional on the day we get the aerial sorted.

Next question is what recorder will do the following = DVB-T2 + DVB-S2 + HHD PVR + DVD/Bluray recording AND DLNA??

24-03-2011 09:54AM

joceadaigh wrote: »

Just a quick update...
Before posting my first question last week I changed region setting on our Phillips TV to UK and did a channel scan. Obviously only the Irish channels were picked up or I wouldn't have posted my question. However changing the region also selected the 'Update channel list on standy' function I didn't know about before. Over the past few days the PSB1 and PSB2 muxes from Arfon appeared although pictured were only received for a couple of hours each day... today COM4 from Llanddona showed up in the channels list but no pictures

So is Llanddona a contender for reliable reception, or is this strictly weather dependent?

I've noticed from ukfree.tv that Llandonna reception map covers parts of the wicklow mountains west of Kilcoole, is this because of the height?
Also Blaen-Plwyf is broadcasting twice the strenght as Llanddona... surely there is some hope there...

Guess it will come down to the professional on the day we get the aerial sorted.

Next question is what recorder will do the following = DVB-T2 + DVB-S2 + HHD PVR + DVD/Bluray recording AND DLNA??

All that is wrong is your aerial is off alignment slightly and you may meed new cabling or boxes.
You'd be better with a unix 100 too rather than a grid.
Forget about llandonna.It only does the journey in lifts,I'm getting it currently and it's interfering with my presely hd at times.

Just to give you an idea,I was on a new aerial job in arklow for arfon digital last summer and when we put a meter on the aerial and peaked the signal for arfon,we discovered that all the other aerials pointed to arfon were a few inches off.They were done for the old analogue and must have had crappy reception in analogue and would have had little or no digital.
What had happened was,no one had used a meter ever probably and those aerials were pointed by copying everyone else so the mistake position was followed by everyone!

As regards the recorder,you are going into big money I should imagine for something like that....probably €1000 + :eek:
However there are dvd recorders out there I think, that have t2 tuners so that in the spec is what you want.

Have a gander here

watty · 24-03-2011 09:58AM

You don't really need DLNA.
That's mostly just an autoconfiguration scheme.

What do you think you need it for?

A PC with a BD recorder, 2x PCI Sat cards, USB Tuners (DVB-T2 ones are now out) will do all that. You won't get an HDD PVR with BluRay that isn't Freesat HD OR Freeview HD (not both). None of the the Combos are really good PVR solutions, I don't think any have BD.

You need BD, not DVD (will play DVDs too).

watty · 24-03-2011 09:59AM

Deleted User wrote: »

A
However there are dvd recorders out there I think, that have t2 tuners so that in the spec is what you want.

No DVD recorder is a "proper" solution for MPEG4 SD, and especially MPEG4 HD broadcast. You need BluRay.

joceadaigh · 09-04-2011 02:22AM

So went for Panasonic DMR-BW780 PVR/Bluray, which my brother collected from Cardiff last weekend while he happened to be over there. Don't know too much about PVRs and stuff but seem to be nice enough to use... Couple of small issues but I'm sure I will get over in time.

One problem I'm having though is that S4C from Blaenplwyf is crashing the machine. I've been receiveing from BP more often than Arfon but still have not had the aerial looked at. Even getting HD from BP on the PVR which is very nice picture, and S4C HD causes no problems... just the SD on Ch24. Anyone hear of something like this happening before?

09-04-2011 08:14AM

bear in mind that you are in a lift situation at the moment so not a good time to judge signals.

Welsh digital switch over-Irish reception questions answered

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