Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Say possible goodbye to religious symbols in the classroom. UPDATE: No Joy!

1246

Comments

  • #92
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    bluewolf wrote: »
    They should do like the amish where the parents bring their kids up that way since they think that's best, but then the kids are sent off to decide for themselves at 16

    Not sure that the Amish lifestyle would suit the average theist :pac:

    Edit:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo74Dn7W_pA


  • #93
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Twin-go wrote: »
    Shouldn't Religion Class be about all religions not Catholicism and "Others"

    Was it realy Catholic class we it happened that other religions were mentioned>
    Yes it was in response to the last point.

    As for the first I agree with you. As I said before in another thread the primary school curriculum should be changed to reflect the secondary school curriculum.

    Seems like a more rounded approach but could you say that each of the five major religions were thought equily or was it still a us and them?
    Fairly well rounded. There was a bit more detail about Christianity and its history such as the schism with an explanation of the differences between the three major denominations but that is expected as it is the largest world Religion and therefore the one people need to understand best. The second most detailed was Islam. It went in to detail of Mohammed's life and the growth of Islam e.t.c. as well as their Religious beliefs and practices such as Wudu and Rak'kah as well as their festivals. Third most detailed is Judaism with similar treatment to Islam in terms of detail. Hinduism and Buddhism each got 25 pages or so dedicated to each of them as they aren't as common.

    Other belief systems such as Atheism, Agnosticism, Humanism e.t.c. got a 100 page (or so) section of the book and philosophy and morality got a similar section of the book that we used.


  • #94
    Gerald Melodic Bubble
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Gerald Melodic Bubble


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Not sure that the Amish lifestyle would suit the average theist :pac:
    Yeah they dont like children making their own decisions about it at 16 :pac:


  • #95
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Yeah they dont like children making their own decisions about it at 16 :pac:

    Well considering that I decided to be a Christian at 17 :pac:

    I think you know that I meant the intensive labour etc, separating yourself from everyone in humanity etc. :)


  • #96
    Gerald Melodic Bubble
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Gerald Melodic Bubble


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Well considering that I decided to be a Christian at 17 :pac:

    I think you know that I meant the intensive labour etc :)

    I think you know I was joking :eek:


  • Advertisement
  • #97
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Twin-go wrote: »
    Jahova's don't allow for blood transfusions because of their belief. Is that what is best for their child if the child needs one?
    That's not exactly a common issue though is it? Personally I would be of the opinion that when it comes to life and death parents should always ensure that they choose the option that will best ensure that their child survives.


  • #98
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Well if they're gonna pick on little muslim girls for wearing a hijab they can damn well get their fuckin' crucifixes and St. Bridget's Crosses and Blessed Virgin icons off the wall too.

    Wonder what's going to happen to all the crosses up on the roofs of schools. The janitor better not suffer from vertigo.


  • #99
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Nodin wrote: »
    You've a news article or something on that....?

    If you've young children in Irish Primary schools, you'll know all about it.


  • #100
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    As long as there are exams there will always be prayer in the classroom! :p


  • #101
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gbee wrote: »
    If you've young children in Irish Primary schools, you'll know all about it.

    I rarely, rarely, do anecdotes. This is because they aren't worth the proverbial wank.

    If nativity plays were being ditched in this country, are you saying that - considering the existence of likes of Joe Duffy, Marianne Finnucane and the Mail - it wouldn't come into the media? Just provide a source. If its happened, I'm sure you'll find one.


  • Advertisement
  • #102
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Biggins wrote: »
    Indeed. Personally I would have no objection to anyone having some sort of display of ALL the religions represented according to those that are in any one particular classroom.
    One symbol for each religion maybe?
    If the class room is 100% catholic then to be honest, I don't see a problem with a symbol of their faith being displayed.
    It obviously would be different if there was other denominations/religions in the same rooms however.

    ...Just a thought and open to be corrected...

    So what would be done if there were various religious denominations making up a majority and a minority of atheist? Displaying religious symbols would be against the beliefs of the atheists, There really isent a symbol for atheism(for obvious reasons) so should nothing be displayed, in which case the view of the minority is imposed on the majority.

    Is this kind of Religious/Non Religious sectarianism really a good atmosphere for kids to be in?

    I think there should be either a policy of no symbols at all, or leave it to each individual school to decide.


  • #103
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Or leave it to each individual school to decide.
    That's how it is at present...


  • #104
    Unpossible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭Unpossible


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    Wonder what's going to happen to all the crosses up on the roofs of schools. The janitor better not suffer from vertigo.
    Throw a couple of flaming skulls around them and you have a kick ass school of rock :pac:


  • #105
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Nodin wrote: »
    I rarely, rarely, do anecdotes.

    You're not a regular listener either to those shows you referenced.


  • #106
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-allows-crucufix-in-classroom-497768.html

    18/03/2011 - 15:16:30
    Crucifixes can be displayed in state school classrooms, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled .

    The ruling will be binding on all 47 countries that are members of the Council of Europe, the continent’s human rights watchdog.

    In November 2009, the court ruled that the crucifix could be disturbing to non-Christian or atheist pupils.

    Several European countries appealed against the ruling, and the final decision by the court’s Grand Chamber came down today.

    The court is based in Strasbourg, France.

    Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-allows-crucufix-in-classroom-497768.html#ixzz1GxxiDnD7


  • #107
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gbee wrote: »
    You're not a regular listener either to those shows you referenced.

    ...source for your claim about nativity plays....?


  • #108
    R0ot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    As long as they ban ALL religious symbols I am okay with it. That includes anything worn by individuals that designates a religion.


  • #109
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    R0ot wrote: »
    As long as they ban ALL religious symbols I am okay with it. That includes anything worn by individuals that designates a religion.
    That's restricting people's freedom of Religion and expression.


  • #110
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Jerry MacCarthy!!!! Just as I've taken down all those religious symbols, crosses, statures, swastikas, beads and scarfs, I can now put the crucifix back up?

    Wouldn't mind but it's the heaviest one an all ..............


  • #111
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...source for your claim about nativity plays....?

    Your own references as I mentioned did whole shows on the subject. You clearly didn't have an interest in this aspect of it until now, ask your daughters.

    And whilst on this subject, just for yourself like, ask about preparations for First Holy Communion and Confirmation too ~ if you've been shocked already, you better bring a soft cushion with you.


  • Advertisement
  • #112
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Morlar wrote: »
    http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-allows-crucufix-in-classroom-497768.html

    18/03/2011 - 15:16:30
    Crucifixes can be displayed in state school classrooms, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled .
    The ruling will be binding on all 47 countries that are members of the Council of Europe, the continent’s human rights watchdog.
    In November 2009, the court ruled that the crucifix could be disturbing to non-Christian or atheist pupils.
    Several European countries appealed against the ruling, and the final decision by the court’s Grand Chamber came down today.
    The court is based in Strasbourg, France.
    Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-allows-crucufix-in-classroom-497768.html#ixzz1GxxiDnD7
    Darn. So the arguments will go on about such things and one lot having possible biasness over the other.
    Not good.
    Just when you think there is hope for the world... :(


  • #113
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gbee wrote: »
    Your own references as I mentioned did whole shows on the subject..


    .....but you can't reference them by an independent source, provide a link to the show in question?. Nor did it spill over to the papers? No questions in the Dail? Just a wall of silence?
    gbee wrote: »
    And whilst on this subject, just for yourself like, ask about preparations for First Holy Communion and Confirmation too ~ if you've been shocked already, you better bring a soft cushion with you.

    And now moving from anecdote to vague anecdote.....


  • #114
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Nodin wrote: »
    ... And now moving from anecdote to vague anecdote.....

    Listen, if you had had an interest you'd know. You don't and your nose is out of joint, sorry about that but this issues is at least three years old, maybe four years ago it started.


  • #115
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    More details on the latest outcome here: http://www.thejournal.ie/religious-symbols-permitted-in-classrooms-european-court-of-human-rights-2011-03/

    Excerpt:
    The European Humanist Federation has described the ruling as “a lost opportunity” saying in a statement released today: “This highly regrettable judgement retreats from the clarity of the initial ruling that the State and its institutions must be impartial, not favouring one religion or belief over another. This principle is particularly important when the State is addressing school pupils, since they are not only immature and impressionable but also a captive audience.”


  • #116
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gbee wrote: »
    Listen, if you had had an interest you'd know. You don't and your nose is out of joint, sorry about that but this issues is at least three years old, maybe four years ago it started.

    Four years ago? Jaysus - thats the time before journalism, history and the internet, when Brian Boru ruled Ireland and we still had them deer with the big antlers. No search engine invented could overcome such a barrier.....


  • #117
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    After this latest stupid backwards court outcome, all I can say is good job there is Educate Together schools growing in numbers!


  • #118
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    Biggins wrote: »
    After this latest stupid backwards court outcome, all I can say is good job there is Educate Together schools growing in numbers!
    I don't think it would have been a good solution Biggi though would it. I mean where will it end if we keep trying to please everyone.


  • #119
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    I don't think it would have been a good solution Biggi though would it. I mean where will it end if we keep trying to please everyone.

    A lot more people accommodated eventually after a number of attempts of trial and failure, then eventual success with a broad adoption of an equal fairness to all system?


  • #120
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Biggins wrote: »
    A lot more people accommodated eventually after a number of attempts of trial and failure, then eventual success with a broad adoption of an equal fairness to all system?

    Who exactly is 'not accomodated' by there being a cross in a classroom ? Europe has a christian heritage, people moving here from non christian countries know this. There are already dedicated islamic and jewish schools which recieve state funding -so I am curious would you like them forced to remove their religous symbols too /or keep them and have their funding removed instead ?


  • Advertisement
  • #121
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    The same logic as is evident in this judgement, would ban Christmas decorations in the classroom, is this is where we want to find ourselves, that because someone finds Christmas offensive, we should ban Christmas decorations in schools and any attempt to celebrate Christmas???


Advertisement