Were you happier in the Celtic Tiger or are you happier now in the Failed Economy???

clouds · 12-03-2011 05:31PM

There's lot of truth in what you say HellFireClub.
I have a half baked theory about that which I don't actually stand over, only in very cynical moods. Our ancestors who survived the famine, they neither emigrated nor died had the streak of the gombeen in them Thus the gombeen gene/culture proliferated exponentially through the population.

HellFireClub · 12-03-2011 05:39PM

clouds wrote: »

There's lot of truth in what you say HellFireClub.
I have a half baked theory about that which I don't actually stand over, only in very cynical moods. Our ancestors who survived the famine, they neither emigrated nor died had the streak of the gombeen in them Thus the gombeen gene/culture proliferated exponentially through the population.

I haven't yet managed to shake off the utter distain that I have for this place since the Celtic Tiger years. Now that the sh*t has finally hit the fan, we are being shown up for what we are and always were, a nation of hill billy idiots that could't organise a p*ss up in a brewery, always looking to someone, somewhere else to do the heavy lifting for us in terms of job creation. How we ever managed an uprising in this country against the strongest empire in the world at the time, within the last 100 years is something I can't get my head around...

fontanalis · 12-03-2011 05:51PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

Hard to run with this analysis... I think the Celtic Tiger showed us up as a nation for what we have aways been. A lazy and fearful constituency of sheer gobshytes who were afraid of hard work, afraid to take a punt on ourselves, hence why most of the employment that was initially generated here when the boom started, was by way of FDI that was imported here by the IDA throwing money at multinational organisations. Then when a bit of money started knocking around, the popular business activity became investing in property and the "no brainer" business opportunity. To me, real entrepreneurship has always been about risk and reward. The only time people in this country put their back to the enterprise wheel was when they thought that (1) it didn't involve any risk, sure won't property always keep going up and (2) it didn't involve any hard work, just lunches with your relationship manager in your branch and rinse lather repeat.

For a while now, I've been completely and utterly ashamed to be Irish after what I've seen in recent years, the dysfunctional work ethic of the place, the ingratiated smugness after a few short years of higher than usual growth, the false modesty, the need to buy cars with certain brands to make a statement about yourself because underneath the style that you can bolt on to yourself by way of a BMW purchase, you have absolutely no substance, f*ckin' overweight spastics paying 40 Euro in a restaurant for a bottle of 5 Euro LIDL wine congratulating themselves on being on the top of the world, "aren't we all just great altogether?!?" you could go on and on...

Unfortunately I agree with too much of this.

Wicklowrider · 12-03-2011 07:26PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

certain brands to make a statement about yourself because underneath the style that you can bolt on to yourself by way of a BMW purchase, you have absolutely no substance, f*ckin' overweight spastics paying 40 Euro in a restaurant for a bottle of 5 Euro LIDL wine congratulating themselves on being on the top of the world, "aren't we all just great altogether?!?" you could go on and on...

Reminds me of a dick I worked with. He paid €14K for a wristwatch. I stood there wondering why he thought the watch made an overweight, unhealthy, stressed out, debt ridden dickhead into a better person.
He got up at an unearthly hour and left the bank's house in the bank's mercedes and stressed in the bank's traffic jam until he got to our foreign master's job. There he stressed until after his children were in the bed and his dinner was in the bin and finally he drove home to open all the bills.....

Dudess · 12-03-2011 07:52PM

Was happier in the sense that I had a better job and there were lots of other jobs out there if I felt like changing, whereas now there's feck all else out there and my job ain't great (but at least I have a job). There's also a sense of overall gloom and negativity because of very real concerns - and getting that vibe off friends and relatives obviously affects one's happiness. I worry about friends and family who are affected too, and people are starting to emigrate so it's sad to see them go. During the "boom" there was a really happy vibe, even if built on sand.
Otherwise though, I'm far from one of the worst off. I wouldn't say I feel less happy, just... different. More cautiously happy I guess...

Dudess · 12-03-2011 07:54PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

I haven't yet managed to shake off the utter distain that I have for this place since the Celtic Tiger years. Now that the sh*t has finally hit the fan, we are being shown up for what we are and always were, a nation of hill billy idiots that could't organise a p*ss up in a brewery, always looking to someone, somewhere else to do the heavy lifting for us in terms of job creation. How we ever managed an uprising in this country against the strongest empire in the world at the time, within the last 100 years is something I can't get my head around...

Well maybe drop the "we" and bear in mind that not everyone here is/was a hill billy idiot, or indeed a self-hater?

JOSman · 12-03-2011 08:05PM

Y ah, but I can't look down my nose today as I'm as broke as the next gobsh'te.

I miss being overcharged for a pretentious little cup of coffee in an overpriced chipper by staff who looked down on me.

12-03-2011 08:11PM

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Reminds me of a dick I worked with. He paid €14K for a wristwatch. I stood there wondering why he thought the watch made an overweight, unhealthy, stressed out, debt ridden dickhead into a better person.
He got up at an unearthly hour and left the bank's house in the bank's mercedes and stressed in the bank's traffic jam until he got to our foreign master's job. There he stressed until after his children were in the bed and his dinner was in the bin and finally he drove home to open all the bills.....

Good story - what became of him?

HellFireClub · 12-03-2011 08:12PM

Dudess wrote: »

Well maybe drop the "we" and bear in mind that not everyone here is/was a hill billy idiot, or indeed a self-hater?

I've described what I percieve this country to be like, of course not all Irish people fit into my analysis of what this country is like, but there is a sizable constituency of people in my opinion who do, especially folks in their 30's upwards, hence why the country is in bits. Give us two quarters of economic growth and we'll be right back to where we were before, 2 hour commutes to work and 2 hours back home again, 4 deep queues at the bar, insecurity issues about driving any car older than 12 months, the false modesty of having to tell all your mates at the bar that you're going on your 3rd sun holiday this year but you really don't want to, it's her that is making you and you'd rather stay at home, etc...

Am I imagining that this was the way it was back in the boom??? And I can't accept that the same bullsh*t was going on everywhere else...

Dudess · 12-03-2011 08:30PM

The really OTT flashness was there undeniably, but from where I was anyway, it didn't seem that widespread - instances of it still raised eyebrows. I certainly didn't partake of it, neither did my family, nor most of my friends (yeah a few went nuts).

HoneyRyder · 12-03-2011 09:08PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

How we ever managed an uprising in this country against the strongest empire in the world at the time, within the last 100 years is something I can't get my head around...

Yeah well we did. With little more than shirts on backs and the will to do it. Ireland then didn't need cynical commentators spouting smugly from the sidelines and neither does Ireland now. We need to summon the same strength and solidarity that has already been proven to achieve so much.

Wicklowrider · 12-03-2011 09:26PM

1966 wrote: »

Good story - what became of him?

We were all let go from the job. From time to time I hear he has applied for posts in various companies where some of us got jobs.

Stinicker · 12-03-2011 09:38PM

same same really, However I think I am happier now during the bad times than I was during the boom. I have seen Fianna Fail exposed as the sheer traitors they always were and best off annihilated by the people who eventually found their vote.

Ireland has been exposed as the crappy little place it always was, having spent the last month and about two to three months abroad a year, homecoming is always a sad affair for me!

Amhran Nua · 12-03-2011 09:40PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

I think the Celtic Tiger showed us up as a nation for what we have aways been. A lazy and fearful constituency of sheer gobshytes who were afraid of hard work,

Except for the near full employment during the bubble years, and that's with almost half a million new entrants to the labour market.

HellFireClub wrote: »

afraid to take a punt on ourselves, hence why most of the employment that was initially generated here when the boom started, was by way of FDI that was imported here by the IDA throwing money at multinational organisations.

Ireland created tax incentives to attract investment, since there were other more attractive destinations because they a) had larger populations, b) were closer to the big markets, and c) had better infrastructure. It worked really well, and is still working, so I don't see how this can be criticised.

HellFireClub wrote: »

Then when a bit of money started knocking around, the popular business activity became investing in property and the "no brainer" business opportunity.

Banks and investment money wasn't going anywhere else but into property. Even with a good business idea it was damn hard work to even get an audience with the banks. Blame the banks for that one, as well as general government inertia.

HellFireClub wrote: »

To me, real entrepreneurship has always been about risk and reward. The only time people in this country put their back to the enterprise wheel was when they thought that (1) it didn't involve any risk, sure won't property always keep going up and (2) it didn't involve any hard work, just lunches with your relationship manager in your branch and rinse lather repeat.

Even with the difficulties, tens of thousands of new businesses started during the bubble.

HellFireClub wrote: »

For a while now, I've been completely and utterly ashamed to be Irish after what I've seen in recent years, the dysfunctional work ethic of the place, the ingratiated smugness after a few short years of higher than usual growth, the false modesty, the need to buy cars with certain brands to make a statement about yourself because underneath the style that you can bolt on to yourself by way of a BMW purchase, you have absolutely no substance, f*ckin' overweight spastics paying 40 Euro in a restaurant for a bottle of 5 Euro LIDL wine congratulating themselves on being on the top of the world, "aren't we all just great altogether?!?" you could go on and on...

Okay, well maybe you should wipe the crap off your chin and take your little racist rant elsewhere. And no, it's not okay if you're Irish.

UsernameInUse · 12-03-2011 09:40PM

Everything seemed right with the world during the middle of the last decade.

Everything seems **** now - it's like there is an invisible cloud over Ireland.

Quiet you · 12-03-2011 10:02PM

Crosáidí wrote: »

Never thought i'd say it but i really miss working for my sanity 1st and foremost and the for money 2nd. As i didn't purchase a house and probably never would've been abled to if the economy didn't crash i'm relieved in that sense its over

I'm the very same. The feeling of uselessness when you go and collect that money is terrible and thats without trying to fill your day with job searching and constant "no's" being told to you.

The money from working is nice and all but its a distant second for me when it comes to the seemingly endless days of rejection and boredom.

The only thing that consoles me is I didn't fall into the getting loans and mortages trap so hopefully when things come good again i'll be in a much better position then i was in.

filthymcnasty · 12-03-2011 10:24PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

I've described what I percieve this country to be like, of course not all Irish people fit into my analysis of what this country is like, but there is a sizable constituency of people in my opinion who do, especially folks in their 30's upwards, hence why the country is in bits.
QUOTE]

Thats utter horse****e imo. You're pretty pissed off by the waste of the Celtic Tiger and thats fair enough but don't try and blame an entire block of people, most of whom lived modestly at that time.

Poor Craythur · 12-03-2011 11:42PM

Oddly enough, I learned frugality during the boom because I was a student throughout so had little money in a country with an ever-rising cost of living, meaning my money had to stretch further and further as time went on.

Like I mentioned in another thread, I knew things were gone mad when the the trainee hairdresser who was cutting my hair told me all about her upcoming weekend shopping trip to New York. This was in late 2007.

Poor Craythur · 12-03-2011 11:46PM

Pauleta wrote: »

This place would be a dive if it never happened.

The country is a dive NOW with an oversupply of poorly built eyesores everywhere.

Liam Byrne · 13-03-2011 12:12AM

HellFireClub wrote: »

OR, were you happier back when you were obviously more flush, three sun holidays a year, Crimbo shopping trips to NY, weekends in London, Dom Perningon in Lillies, the 800 Euro Louis Vutton handbag, the 700 Euro Jimmy Choo heels???

Never did any of the above.

Would love to say that the bust hasn't affected me; it shouldn't have, but FF ensured that it did by robbing me to pay other people's debts.

gigino · 17-03-2011 02:46AM

Poor Craythur wrote: »

I knew things were gone mad when the the trainee hairdresser who was cutting my hair told me all about her upcoming weekend shopping trip to New York. This was in late 2007.

I knew things had gone mad when there was an overseas property exhibition and 2 people emerging ( youngish teachers as it happened ) were interviewed on tv, and they said they had just bought a places in Dubai each.

Couchkitten · 17-03-2011 03:40AM

Well I'm better off now because I was just building up my career during the boom and I've been extremely lucky to be able to move upwards and onwards even with the collapse. My rent is way cheaper and the cost of living's gone down - Money-wise I've money for the first time in my life. (i'm not loaded or anything, i'm just not stuck anymore)

I've also finally stopped being in awe of people my age who were buying houses, fancy cars ect.... I thought that they must manage their money so much better than me. Now I realise that they borrowed all that money.

I'm sad for our country though....and for people who have been left in desperate situations.

17-03-2011 08:18PM

Couchkitten wrote: »

I've also finally stopped being in awe of people my age who were buying houses, fancy cars ect.... I thought that they must manage their money so much better than me. Now I realise that they borrowed all that money.

couldn't agree more with your comment - often thought me and OH were doing something wrong not to have a place in Spain / Turkey - financial failures I thought - but hey luckily we were not the types to over-stretch ourselves and how glad am I today !!!

Bobby42 · 17-03-2011 08:27PM

I miss the random pay increases I got for no apparent reason during the boom. Now I'm a penniless student.

Table Top Joe · 17-03-2011 09:27PM

Couchkitten wrote: »

I've also finally stopped being in awe of people my age who were buying houses, fancy cars ect.... I thought that they must manage their money so much better than me. Now I realise that they borrowed all that money.

I was the exact same,i thought "how the hell can they afford all that stuff??",fancy cars,house(s!) and all that jazz,i never thought i was good with money until the crash,i had a very black and white attitude to it,i didnt have enough money to buy the same as everyone else(well,nearly everyone else it seemed then)so i didnt,i dont mean that in smug way,i just presumed others did have the money,there were times when i felt like i was failure too as i had countless people my age(and younger)telling me "you'd really wanna get on the ol property ladder".......thankfully i didnt and while im now making about a grand less a month than i was,i dont owe a penny and im still fairly comfortable,overall id have to say im better off now,i make much less money(i should point out i do much less hours too,i enjoy the free time i must say,30 hrs a week btw)but everythings so much cheaper now too,it used to infuriate me how little people cared about how much things cost "sure it costs what it costs" as a friend of mine always said,a lot of people complained about the price of everything but people just shrugged their shoulders and paid anyway,sandwich and a cup of coffee was over a tenner ffs in a lot of places!!!....actually it probably still is,i wouldnt know

Hmmm,went on for longer than i meant too there:D.......the price of things used to drive me crazy(and it still does)but no one gave a **** then,when we do get back on our feet(fingers crossed)i hope lessons will have been learned and we'll be the better for it,tbf the country never had money before so its only natural people went a bit mad,it was greed on a lot of peoples parts but it has to be seen in context,a lot of older people lived a long time here with sweet f.a so of course they wanted to enjoy themselves,they've paid the price for it though big time

Interesting thread...

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 17-03-2011 09:42PM

As long as I am employed I am happy. Saying that my job is rubbish, the pay is an insult and I have a lot less time to myself. Even still, I am much happer than I was 3-4 years ago.

Agricola · 17-03-2011 09:54PM

Wouldnt say I was happier in the boom because I wasnt rich back then, and Im not now. Was a student throughout the boom and went into a job with a modest salary 4 years ago, which Im still in. So you don't miss what you never had.
Im a natural pessimist / realist though and would always have been vocal with family and friends about my disdain for the celtic tiger bluster and everything that went with it. Thankfully for me that now means Im not trying to service a huge mortgage or payback a big carloan.
Despite the fact a recession suits my personality better, Id rather live in a world where everyone had a job and the world was a happy shiny place where politicians and bankers were respected custodians of the state!

blaze1 · 17-03-2011 10:08PM

I wasnt rich during the boom but could manage nicely....

Once the mortgage rates go down again I'll be better....

Just got a nice letter from the bank, my mortgage is now my entire wage from the end of march. :eek:

bonerm · 17-03-2011 10:13PM

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Everything seems **** now - it's like there is an invisible cloud over Ireland.

Sorry, I had a curry for dinner.

Were you happier in the Celtic Tiger or are you happier now in the Failed Economy???

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