Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

Welease · 06-03-2011 08:34AM

RichardAnd wrote: »

PS Flamers: In a nation addicted to begrudgery, it's not surprising that hitting on those in state employment is so ubiquitous. It is no secret that we spend too much on the public service and many arguments raised by this side of the fence have merit. However, if you a person who actually wants to see people being made redundant and put into financial hardship then you need to take a look at yourself because there is something wrong. Further, I can't see how putting thousands of people out of work will do any good. It may have to happen, but I don't like it.

My two cents.

Posts like this miss the point by a country mile.. The situation is not a simplistic as "begrudgery", and to accuse people who are being denied services they desperately require in order to maintain the status quo of mismanaged services as being "begrudgers" shows a shocking lack of understanding of the issues in departments such as the HSE..

Were the hundreds of people lying on trolleys because of closed wards "begrudgers" because they want unnecessary middle management and admin replaced with front line service to run these wards?

Are mental health patients with no access to services "begrudgers" because they want front line services reinstated instead of mindless job for life middle management?

Are the parents of Special Needs children who are denied life changing interventions "bedgrudgers"?

Are people on growing waiting lists "begrudgers" also?

I respectfully suggest you go and spend a week with any of those people above, try and understand how their lives are effected by the rampant mismanagement and see if you still consider them "begrudgers" because they don't get services that they pay taxes for...

As a senior (retired) consultant said to me last week, the HSE has the best care available in the world.. the problem is you are unlikely to get access to that care because the HSE is designed to benefit the employees not the users of the service... That needs to change and the people who want this change are not simply "begrudgers".

sollar · 06-03-2011 11:32AM

Welease wrote: »

Posts like this miss the point by a country mile.. The situation is not a simplistic as "begrudgery", and to accuse people who are being denied services they desperately require in order to maintain the status quo of mismanaged services as being "begrudgers" shows a shocking lack of understanding of the issues in departments such as the HSE..

Were the hundreds of people lying on trolleys because of closed wards "begrudgers" because they want unnecessary middle management and admin replaced with front line service to run these wards?

Are mental health patients with no access to services "begrudgers" because they want front line services reinstated instead of mindless job for life middle management?

Are the parents of Special Needs children who are denied life changing interventions "bedgrudgers"?

Are people on growing waiting lists "begrudgers" also?

I respectfully suggest you go and spend a week with any of those people above, try and understand how their lives are effected by the rampant mismanagement and see if you still consider them "begrudgers" because they don't get services that they pay taxes for...

As a senior (retired) consultant said to me last week, the HSE has the best care available in the world.. the problem is you are unlikely to get access to that care because the HSE is designed to benefit the employees not the users of the service... That needs to change and the people who want this change are not simply "begrudgers".

Yeah of course this accounts for a large portion of the attention this topic gets. But don't underestimate the green eyed monster effect too. Its undeniably present in these threads.

jakdelad · 06-03-2011 06:39PM

Japer wrote: »

According to the governments own statistics department, latest released figures show that public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than equivalent pay in the private sector.

www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/current/earnlabcosts.pdf

Three years in to a crisis, and the economy is still burdened with the overhead of having an overpaid and over-pensioned public sector ( both compared with the private sector and other public services abroad, including in comparison with our nearest neighbour ). When will we ever learn?

all the more reason for public servants to seriously consider the census form next month[kick back]
who checks the cso ????
the public service are like rabbits,they have a lot of enemies...
and the cso, the military wing of the govt
just keep stirring it, again and again
to keep the war between the public and private sector going

De Dannan · 06-03-2011 06:45PM

So much for the idea that we were voting for public sector reform
Labour have that portfolio now and no way in hell they will do the necessary :rolleyes:

sollar · 06-03-2011 07:25PM

De Dannan wrote: »

Labour have that portfolio now and no way in hell they will do the necessary :rolleyes:

What exactly should they do? What is necessary? Its all a bit vague.

noodler · 06-03-2011 07:42PM

jakdelad wrote: »

and the cso, the military wing of the govt
just keep stirring it, again and again
to keep the war between the public and private sector going

Ehhhhhh.....No.

They just publish statistics.

gigino · 06-03-2011 08:02PM

sollar wrote: »

What exactly should they do? What is necessary? Its all a bit vague.

after 112 pages, and much debate in the media over the past few months at least in the run up to the election, and given the state the country is in / our budget situation, you still do not grasp what some people at least think should be done with our public sector ?

Given spending on the public sector has doubled between 1999 and 2009, better value for money for the taxpayer would be a start. As the country is bust - you may not have noticed - maybe some money could be saved. And if you ever experienced some of the shortcomings in the HSE for example, you may come around to the view that an improvement in some of our public services could be desireable.

sollar · 06-03-2011 09:48PM

gigino wrote: »

better value for money for the taxpayer would be a start. As the country is bust - you may not have noticed - maybe some money could be saved. And if you ever experienced some of the shortcomings in the HSE for example, you may come around to the view that an improvement in some of our public services could be desireable.

See still vague....... what exactly do you want?

gigino · 06-03-2011 10:20PM

sollar wrote: »

See still vague....... what exactly do you want?

if you paid any attention to the past hundreds of posts you would see, I am not going to repeat myself yet again for you....read the posts yourself

jakdelad · 08-03-2011 09:22PM

noodler wrote: »

Ehhhhhh.....No.

They just publish statistics.

ya with no one to hold them to account
they [cso] continuousley put out innacurate information
about the levels of public service pay
while senior bosses may be getting big pay
the ordinary frontline worker is on a megre weeks pay
the cso have deliberatly set about to create friction between private and public service
its an old fainna fail trick ,been doing it for years

who checks the checkers
the cso should be frequently audited they are not
no accountability
they should be first in line for serious reform by the new govt

noodler · 08-03-2011 09:44PM

jakdelad wrote: »

ya with no one to hold them to account
they [cso] continuousley put out innacurate information
about the levels of public service pay
while senior bosses may be getting big pay
the ordinary frontline worker is on a megre weeks pay
the cso have deliberatly set about to create friction between private and public service
its an old fainna fail trick ,been doing it for years

who checks the checkers
the cso should be frequently audited they are not
no accountability
they should be first in line for serious reform by the new govt

Conspiracy theories.

What about Eurostat?

"Eurostat leads the work in the sense of initiating the legislation, coordinating the roles of national authorities, establishing in collaboration common methods and standards."

Are you not satisfied the methods used by all members of the EU are okay?

God, that is really scraping the barrel on your part.

MagicSean · 09-03-2011 01:43AM

noodler wrote: »

Conspiracy theories.

What about Eurostat?

"Eurostat leads the work in the sense of initiating the legislation, coordinating the roles of national authorities, establishing in collaboration common methods and standards."

Are you not satisfied the methods used by all members of the EU are okay?

God, that is really scraping the barrel on your part.

The point isn't that the stats are wrong but that they are structured in a way which favours certain arguments. The stats about the public sector pay show an overpaid sector which isn't properly reflective. If the stats were further split between lower, middle and upper levels of employment they would be much more illuminating and useful and would not support a decision for across the board cuts.

jakdelad · 09-03-2011 09:40PM

k_mac wrote: »

The point isn't that the stats are wrong but that they are structured in a way which favours certain arguments. The stats about the public sector pay show an overpaid sector which isn't properly reflective. If the stats were further split between lower, middle and upper levels of employment they would be much more illuminating and useful and would not support a decision for across the board cuts.

well said k_mac
you hit the nail on the head

as i said they throw out figures willy nilly

wait till you see the questions in the census form for 2011

gigino · 09-03-2011 10:49PM

k_mac wrote: »

If the stats were further split between lower, middle and upper levels of employment they would be much more illuminating and useful and would not support a decision for across the board cuts.

The c.s.o. has spent hundreds of thousands of euro ( of taxpayers money ) compiling statistics on public sector pay, which is quite detailed.

They are not mainly compiled from census forms, as jakdelad has implied. Public sector pay is all paid by the government, so its not rocket science in this computerised age to work out average pay among the different sections of the public service etc.

K_mac mentions " across the board cuts ", but given some public sector workers are on ten times the pay of other public sector workers in the same government building, it will more than likely be that higher paid public sector workers will face a higher percentage cut than those who are lower paid. That would only be fair.

Vizzy · 09-03-2011 11:21PM

gigino wrote: »

The c.s.o. has spent hundreds of thousands of euro ( of taxpayers money ) compiling statistics on public sector pay, which is quite detailed.

They are not mainly compiled from census forms, as jakdelad has implied. Public sector pay is all paid by the government, so its not rocket science in this computerised age to work out average pay among the different sections of the public service etc.

K_mac mentions " across the board cuts ", but given some public sector workers are on ten times the pay of other public sector workers in the same government building, it will more than likely be that higher paid public sector workers will face a higher percentage cut than those who are lower paid. That would only be fair.

Finally,some recognition that the public sector is not completely made up of people who are earning €100K+
I absolutely agree that there is a need to rationalise the public service(we simply can't afford not to) but I cannot see how a 10% cut in numbers can be achieved without affecting "frontline services".
I don't think anyone will argue that we have too many Gardai or nurses or teachers or people mending potholes.

gigino · 10-03-2011 01:05AM

Vizzy wrote: »

Finally,some recognition that the public sector is not completely made up of people who are earning €100K+

Absolute rubbish : noboby ever claimed , or near claimed, the public service was "completely made up of people who are earning €100K+".

Vizzy wrote: »

I absolutely agree that there is a need to rationalise the public service(we simply can't afford not to) but I cannot see how a 10% cut in numbers can be achieved without affecting "frontline services".

Admin staff, managers etc....some of who readily admit to surfing on the net half the day. There should be no more half hours off to cash non existent pay checks, no more half days ( paid ) for xmas shopping, lecturers should work longer hours ( no more 8 or 10 hour weeks )etc. Teachers should do parent - teacher meetings in the evenings, to suit parents, like in the UK, instead of taking them out of the school day etc.
Gardai should not be allowed to do their personal shopping while in uniform + using official cars etc. Retired taoiseach should not have a highly paid chaffeur for life. Time we got real.

Vizzy wrote: »

I don't think anyone will argue that we have too many Gardai or nurses or teachers or ....

planners ? or nationalised bankers ? lol.

If public sector wages were not so high - still at an average of 47k despite the cuts -then cuts would not be as necessary. Bear in mind average public sector pay in the UK @ 22 to 23 k stg is nearly only half that. The IMF will say before the year is out that, " sorry lads, but 10% is only tinkering around the edges"...now if you want to "borrow" yet more money why do you act as a tax haven

keithcan · 10-03-2011 02:22AM

Welease wrote: »

Were the hundreds of people lying on trolleys because of closed wards "begrudgers" because they want unnecessary middle management and admin replaced with front line service to run these wards?

Are mental health patients with no access to services "begrudgers" because they want front line services reinstated instead of mindless job for life middle management?

This thinking fascinates me. People in "middle management", it would seem, are poor quality, unnecessary, lazy, etc. Front line service workers are different.

Can it really, really, really be that simple? It rarely is.

I've spent time in hospitals and other areas of the health services and in my experience, the front line staff are like everyone else in all areas of service employment that I've seen elsewhere, public or private sector: they area mixed bunch. Some frontline staff in my experience appear to be customer-focussed, hard-working and conscientious, etc. Others are disorganised, with poor regard for customers and yes, lazy. And loads of others are somewhere in between those two.

Why has gained so much currency that Health service admin staff are uniquely NOT a mixed bunch, but are all in the lazy etc. category? It defies logic.

I question the balance of posters who lazily throw out the above position. There has to be HSE admin staff who are conscientious, hard-working, etc. I question whether the positions being taken are about the media whipping it up. The thing is, you can witch-hunt any sector you like. But for every lazy admin person (whoever these never-seen-in-public people are) in the HSE, there just has to be others doing their thing with integrity, not wasting thousands, not dossing, etc. If you're led by the media, you won't read about them. If you've got perspective, you'll understand they exist.

Gumbo · 10-03-2011 10:17AM

gigino wrote: »

Admin staff, managers etc....some of who readily admit to surfing on the net half the day.

have you talked to managers for them to admit this?
i havent seen anybody admit this on here other that yourself, but your not PS so thats not a problem to concern anybody else

gigino wrote: »

There should be no more half hours off to cash non existent pay checks, no more half days ( paid ) for xmas shopping

none of them exist in any PS office in Dublin or any other dept that i ever had to deal with? they were an ancient rule that nobdoy could actually avail of as the managers would not allow it (and rightly so).

gigino wrote: »

Teachers should do parent - teacher meetings in the evenings, to suit parents, like in the UK, instead of taking them out of the school day etc.

i agree with this, one evening every couple of months wont kill anybody.

gigino wrote: »

Gardai should not be allowed to do their personal shopping while in uniform + using official cars etc.

ive never seen this, how do you know there not on their way to work or on the way home from work?

gigino wrote: »

Retired taoiseach should not have a highly paid chaffeur for life. Time we got real.

i also agree with this.

gigino wrote: »

if public sector wages were not so high - still at an average of 47k despite the cuts -then cuts would not be as necessary. Bear in mind average public sector pay in the UK @ 22 to 23 k stg is nearly only half that. The IMF will say before the year is out that, " sorry lads, but 10% is only tinkering around the edges"...now if you want to "borrow" yet more money why do you act as a tax haven

didnt we already cover this? the UK is a different country, you cant compare the UK with Ireland as it has a much much lower cost of living, full stop. if people got UK salaries, but received a UK standard of living and associated costs, including cheaper shopping, cheaper insurance, cheaper medical care, GP visits, cheaper motor tax and cheaper everything in general, then we could argue, but its irrelevent because we have a higher cost of living here and higher than many other european cities.

sollar · 10-03-2011 10:40AM

The new government cut their own wages by 5% and Enda Kenny said twice in his speech yesterday that there would be no compulsory redundancies.

Its looking more unlikely now that he will break the croke park agreement and cut PS pay.

Gumbo · 10-03-2011 10:55AM

sollar wrote: »

The new government cut their own wages by 5% and Enda Kenny said twice in his speech yesterday that there would be no compulsory redundancies.

Its looking more unlikely now that he will break the croke park agreement and cut PS pay.

should it matter aslong as the savings are achieved?

Welease · 10-03-2011 12:26PM

keithcan wrote: »

This thinking fascinates me. People in "middle management", it would seem, are poor quality, unnecessary, lazy, etc. Front line service workers are different.

Can it really, really, really be that simple? It rarely is.

I've spent time in hospitals and other areas of the health services and in my experience, the front line staff are like everyone else in all areas of service employment that I've seen elsewhere, public or private sector: they area mixed bunch. Some frontline staff in my experience appear to be customer-focussed, hard-working and conscientious, etc. Others are disorganised, with poor regard for customers and yes, lazy. And loads of others are somewhere in between those two.

Why has gained so much currency that Health service admin staff are uniquely NOT a mixed bunch, but are all in the lazy etc. category? It defies logic.

I question the balance of posters who lazily throw out the above position. There has to be HSE admin staff who are conscientious, hard-working, etc. I question whether the positions being taken are about the media whipping it up. The thing is, you can witch-hunt any sector you like. But for every lazy admin person (whoever these never-seen-in-public people are) in the HSE, there just has to be others doing their thing with integrity, not wasting thousands, not dossing, etc. If you're led by the media, you won't read about them. If you've got perspective, you'll understand they exist.

Where did I say they were lazy or poor quality? Or that the private sector was better? Or that frontline staff were harder working? I think you have misunderstood my post.

I said many were unnecessary, a view also agreed on by most people including the HSE themselves.

"The HSE has admitted that it is top-heavy with clerical and admin staff. When the organisation was set up to replace the health boards in 2005, no redundancies were implemented."
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=18134

"HSE HR Director Sean Mc Grath said recently he felt the organisation was top-heavy with admin and managerial staff but only a voluntary redundancy scheme could deal with that issue."
"The single health executive behemoth that was created in January 2005 was meant to result in a more efficient and streamlined health service in line with the Government's health reform policy. With one single organisation replacing eleven health boards, there should have been economies of scale. However, there was no redundancy programme and too many people ended up doing similar jobs. There was much duplication and added levels of admin to plough through in order to get things done."
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=18146

In an organisation whereby 70% (iirc) of the budget is spent of salaries, then having unnecessary clerical/admin staff while removing frontline services (mental health for example) due to budget constraints is wrong

gigino · 10-03-2011 02:41PM

kceire wrote: »

none of them exist in any PS office in Dublin or any other dept that i ever had to deal with

It does not matter what you found wioth the PS office you dealt with, the fact remains that in some areas - nobody claimed it was all areas - of the public service the employees there are entitled to a half hours off to cash non existent pay checks ( as its done now by direct debit but they have been entitled to half an hour off since all the bank raids of the seventies to cash their pay cheque ). Some people - not everyone in the public service - also get a paid half day off for xmas shopping.

kceire wrote: »

the UK is a different country, you cant compare the UK with Ireland as it has a much much lower cost of living, full stop.

That has been covered before. The cost of living in Newry is not that much lower than living in Dundalk, in fact some people in Newry envy the fact we do not pay property tax, water rates etc....and if you think our diesel / petrol is expensive, its 15% more up north ! There is only 1% difference in vat between the 2 economies now. Motor tax is cheaper here now, my cousin was saying he taxed his large saloon car for a year for only 104 euro. There is no big difference in costs of living between the 2 jurisdictions to justify a 20,000 average salary differential. Yet our public service wages are not less, not two grand more but twenty grand a year more on average than public service wages in UK !
If you look at Canada / USA, the jurisdiction there which has lowest wages has the highest cost of living, so you cannot use the argument of the cost of living in our neighbouring jurisdiction to justify the abnormally high public service salaries here.

Gumbo · 10-03-2011 03:11PM

gigino wrote: »

The cost of living in Newry is not that much lower than living in Dundalk, in fact some people in Newry envy the fact we do not pay property tax, water rates etc.....

no its not, Newry is still cheaper to buy from, even when you factor travel costs from North dublin and back. a friend recently spent alot of money on baby equipment and food that would of cost him 1/3 more in Dunnes/Tesco to buy down here.

you are posting your opinions, which is a way way long way from fact, Ireland is still tanked as a more expensive country to live in than the UK/NI.

gigino wrote: »

Motor tax is cheaper here now, my cousin was saying he taxed his large saloon car for a year for only 104 euro.

if your lucky enough to buy an 08 or newer car then. A 2002 BMW 530d which costs €1300 to tax here costs £245 to tax in NI.

dan_d · 10-03-2011 03:44PM

keithcan wrote: »

This thinking fascinates me. People in "middle management", it would seem, are poor quality, unnecessary, lazy, etc. Front line service workers are different.

Can it really, really, really be that simple? It rarely is.

From my perspective, it's not so much their abilities as the quantity of staff in those positions.

Every workforce has it's good and bad workers. But it's been acknowledged (see the links in posts above mine), that the HSE has too many admin staff, but we hear every day that there aren't enough nurses/doctors/beds/wards - which is the entire point of what a health service should be providing.

I (for one), am not questioning the quality of their work - I'm questioning whether we need so many of them. I'm inclined to believe that with proper management and good, efficient working practices, many of those admin staff would not be required. Which may, possibly, streamline things even further and make the hospital workings more efficient.

gigino · 10-03-2011 04:08PM

kceire wrote: »

no its not, Newry is still cheaper to buy from, even when you factor travel costs from North dublin and back. a friend recently spent alot of money on baby equipment and food that would of cost him 1/3 more in Dunnes/Tesco to buy down here.

He must have forgotten to allow for the cost of the exchange rate. Boxes of pampers can be got now cheaper south of the border than in N.I. Anyway, there are swings and roundabouts. Some things are cheaper up north , some things ( eg shoes, petrol + diesel, clothes in Pennys ) cheaper here. There is only a 1% vat difference now, so the days of a big overall difference are over. Businesses here have to pay Irish rates and supoport a government whose average wage is nearly double the average UK public sector wage, so if our public sector wages / rates come down , it will help everyone, including many of our retailers who are struggling. People in both UK and Ireland can and do buy online from anywhere + everywhere in EC. The cost of living in the north or elsewhere in the UK cannot be used to justify our average public servant pay being 20,000 more than UK rate.
If so, should'nt the UK rate be higher if anything, seeing as residents there have to pay property tax, water rates etc.

When the IMF reduces public sector wages to sensible and sustainable levels here, lets hope it does not introduce a grand a year property tax which many people in the UK have to pay. It would take a lot of saving 10 cents on a box of cornflakes , and 5p on a tin of beans, in Newry to save that.;)

Gumbo · 10-03-2011 04:36PM

gigino wrote: »

He must have forgotten to allow for the cost of the exchange rate. Boxes of pampers can be got now cheaper south of the border than in N.I. Anyway, there are swings and roundabouts. Some things are cheaper up north , some things ( eg shoes, petrol + diesel, clothes in Pennys ) cheaper here. There is only a 1% vat difference now, so the days of a big overall difference are over. Businesses here have to pay Irish rates and supoport a government whose average wage is nearly double the average UK public sector wage, so if our public sector wages / rates come down , it will help everyone, including many of our retailers who are struggling. People in both UK and Ireland can and do buy online from anywhere + everywhere in EC. The cost of living in the north or elsewhere in the UK cannot be used to justify our average public servant pay being 20,000 more than UK rate.
If so, should'nt the UK rate be higher if anything, seeing as residents there have to pay property tax, water rates etc.

When the IMF reduces public sector wages to sensible and sustainable levels here, lets hope it does not introduce a grand a year property tax which many people in the UK have to pay. It would take a lot of saving 10 cents on a box of cornflakes , and 5p on a tin of beans, in Newry to save that.;)

no its not, Newry is still cheaper to buy from, even when you factor travel costs from North dublin and back. a friend recently spent alot of money on baby equipment and food that would of cost him 1/3 more in Dunnes/Tesco to buy down here.

you are posting your opinions, which is a way way long way from fact, Ireland is still tanked as a more expensive country to live in than the UK/NI.

we can all copy and paste ya know and then bold a few words, makes no difference, the fact is still the same and the 2 posts are the same

gigino · 10-03-2011 05:58PM

Unlike you in your post, I did not copy and paste. You are not answering the points but instead claiming your friend went from Dublin to Newry to do his shopping, so its justifiable for our public servants to be paid 20,000 more per year on average.

The public servants in the north often come down here to buy their petrol / diesel / shoes etc, sio big deal, your friend goes up north , they come across the border to fill up etc.

I have 2 questions:

Would you be happy - economically - if we were still part of the UK and had their average public sector salary of 22 or 23 K stg, along with their lower shopping costs ( but presumably with their property tax, higher fuel taxes etc ) ?

Whio do you think is better off : our average public sector worker on 47 k ( after the recent cuts ) and who may have to go to Lidl or Dunnes or Tesco in Newry as you say for his groceries( instead of Lidl or Dunnes or Tesco in Dublin ) , or the UK public sector worker in N.I. or elsewhere in the UK ?

erictheviking1 · 10-03-2011 07:30PM

gigino wrote: »

Unlike you in your post, I did not copy and paste. You are not answering the points but instead claiming your friend went from Dublin to Newry to do his shopping, so its justifiable for our public servants to be paid 20,000 more per year on average.

The public servants in the north often come down here to buy their petrol / diesel / shoes etc, sio big deal, your friend goes up north , they come across the border to fill up etc.

I have 2 questions:

Would you be happy - economically - if we were still part of the UK and had their average public sector salary of 22 or 23 K stg, along with their lower shopping costs ( but presumably with their property tax, higher fuel taxes etc ) ?

Whio do you think is better off : our average public sector worker on 47 k ( after the recent cuts ) and who may have to go to Lidl or Dunnes or Tesco in Newry as you say for his groceries( instead of Lidl or Dunnes or Tesco in Dublin ) , or the UK public sector worker in N.I. or elsewhere in the UK ?

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! posting during working hours again?..and again....and again...and again:).Oh I forgot. You don't work!
There is just so much wrong with this post. Firstly, you attack the lad for using copy and paste while you constantly copy and paste..and I mean constantly:D
Of course the cost of living is less in the UK. Its a LOT less. Everyone seems to realise this but you. Your motor tax post earlier is f***ing laughable. (Your cousin who can tax his LARGE saloon for £104....yeah right! Was it a f***ing pedal car?:D) I have a car that costs almost 3 times as much to tax here as it costs in the UK. My wages aren't 3 times as much as wages in the UK:mad:
Another example might be a trip to the Doctors
Ireland = 60 Euros
N Ireland = FREE
Then down the chemist for my prescription....
Ireland= The cheapest prescription I ever got was around a tenner. The most expensive 120 f***ing Euros
N Ireland = FREE
There are so many more examples like this while your examples are all completely made up.

:D
Here's a suggestion. Why not get a job. If you contributed as much to our economy as you contribute bull**** to boards all our troubles would be over.

erictheviking1 · 10-03-2011 07:35PM

gigino wrote: »

if you paid any attention to the past hundreds of posts you would see, I am not going to repeat myself yet again for you....read the posts yourself

:D:D:D
You are not going to repeat yourself?:D

I really really liked this one....

The irony...Its comedy f***ing genius. Pat yourself on the back young man!

MagicSean · 10-03-2011 07:47PM

gigino wrote: »

He must have forgotten to allow for the cost of the exchange rate. Boxes of pampers can be got now cheaper south of the border than in N.I. Anyway, there are swings and roundabouts. Some things are cheaper up north , some things ( eg shoes, petrol + diesel, clothes in Pennys ) cheaper here. There is only a 1% vat difference now, so the days of a big overall difference are over. Businesses here have to pay Irish rates and supoport a government whose average wage is nearly double the average UK public sector wage, so if our public sector wages / rates come down , it will help everyone, including many of our retailers who are struggling. People in both UK and Ireland can and do buy online from anywhere + everywhere in EC. The cost of living in the north or elsewhere in the UK cannot be used to justify our average public servant pay being 20,000 more than UK rate.
If so, should'nt the UK rate be higher if anything, seeing as residents there have to pay property tax, water rates etc.

When the IMF reduces public sector wages to sensible and sustainable levels here, lets hope it does not introduce a grand a year property tax which many people in the UK have to pay. It would take a lot of saving 10 cents on a box of cornflakes , and 5p on a tin of beans, in Newry to save that.;)

gigino wrote: »

Unlike you in your post, I did not copy and paste. You are not answering the points but instead claiming your friend went from Dublin to Newry to do his shopping, so its justifiable for our public servants to be paid 20,000 more per year on average.

The public servants in the north often come down here to buy their petrol / diesel / shoes etc, sio big deal, your friend goes up north , they come across the border to fill up etc.

I have 2 questions:

Would you be happy - economically - if we were still part of the UK and had their average public sector salary of 22 or 23 K stg, along with their lower shopping costs ( but presumably with their property tax, higher fuel taxes etc ) ?

Whio do you think is better off : our average public sector worker on 47 k ( after the recent cuts ) and who may have to go to Lidl or Dunnes or Tesco in Newry as you say for his groceries( instead of Lidl or Dunnes or Tesco in Dublin ) , or the UK public sector worker in N.I. or elsewhere in the UK ?

The average public sector worker does not earn 47k. 47k is the average rate of pay. It is a mere statistical figure. You seem to have a lot of trouble grasping this. I have previously given you an example of the actual difference in pay which you have ignored. While people in NI may have a property tax and water charges they also have lower motor tax, no VRT, lower VAT, lower pay deductions and lower utility rates as far as I am aware. I'm not sure how much shopping you do but a difference of even €20 a week in a shopping bill adds up to over a grand a year in savings so it's not something to just disregard. Even the cost of alcohol and cigarettes is much lower.

gigino wrote: »

Businesses here have to pay Irish rates and supoport a government whose average wage is nearly double the average UK public sector wage, so if our public sector wages / rates come down , it will help everyone, including many of our retailers who are struggling.

This does not make sense. You are assuming that a reduction in PS wage would bring a similar reduction in rates. A ridiculous theory considering the deficit the country faces. Any savings from the PS will go straight to the deficit.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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