Does anyone else think the whole underage drinking thing is taken way too seriously?

peasant · 06-03-2011 12:33PM

HavingCrack wrote: »

The real thing they should be doing is questioning why teenagers feel the need to start drinking. Easy answer is because the whole country (with a few exceptions obviously) has a serious problem with alcohol. Until everybody starts taking a more mature attitude to drinking the underage problem is simply going to get worse.

+ 1

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Kids are gonna drink.

When and where I grew up, it was legal to sell beer to 16 year olds, for spirits you had to be over 18.

Yes, of course we did drink said beer. But the incidences of of pissed teenagers falling around drunk all over the place and making a nuisance of themselves were surprisingly few and far between.

The difference was that while we were tolerated to have a drink, being drunk wasn't ...here it's a badge of honour and despite all the noises (and legislation) to the contrary, nobody really gives a sh*t.

amacca · 06-03-2011 12:33PM

immature ejaculation wrote: »

Kids should be seen not heard. So stay out of our bars!

How will we see them when were having a drink?

2 stroke · 06-03-2011 12:55PM

Croppy Bhoy wrote: »

Does anyone else think the whole underage drinking thing is taken way too seriously?

Yes. Many teenagers take it far too seriously.

Squirm · 06-03-2011 12:56PM

I think that it is easy to look at countries that have a lower age restriction and, also, less of a "getting pissed and puking in the gutter" culture and, compare it to those countries with an higher age restriction, where drink poses a bigger social problem and conclude that prohibiting alcohol is making people less responsible drinkers and encouraging people to drink younger.

However, it is our irresponsible drinking culture that dictates the age restriction and the same goes for other, for example, European countries, where drink is not such a social problem and young people can drink in moderation, over a meal and with family etc etc.

The main issue with under age drinking is that the younger a person's body the less able it is to cope with the toxin that alcohol is and the more damage it does. Alcohol related illness is a massive drain on the health system. Alcohol related domestic problems are also a huge social problem in Ireland.

Were we to lower the drinking age, it would be MANY generations before the excitement of prohibition was forgotten and our young people able to approach drinking with a more responsibile attitude.

Young people and, in general, people with lower levels of intelligence and a lesser concept of social resposibility, are more likely to behave in a socially unacceptable manner while intoxicated. This alone is a good reason to police the sale of alcohol to minors as rigidly as possible.

Having worked with young people demonstrating risk-taking and self-harming behaviours (and with families struggling to cope with the cycles of abuse, poverty and depression that alcoholism can cause) I have seen first hand the 'worst case scenarios'.

As a parent I am not interested in a lower age restriction and I plan to educate my children to abstain from drinking for as long as possible and will worry if I find she is in a peer group with others who have permission to drink and/or who drink socially at a young age.

06-03-2011 12:59PM

Squirm wrote: »

As a parent I am not interested in a lower age restriction and I plan to educate my children to abstain from drinking for as long as possible and will worry if I find she is in a peer group with others who have permission to drink and/or who drink socially at a young age.

I'm glad my mother was more relaxed... was ok to drink at home but not as much when out
Got it out of my system early on then lost all interest in binge drinking

Squirm · 06-03-2011 01:12PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm glad my mother was more relaxed... was ok to drink at home but not as much when out
Got it out of my system early on then lost all interest in binge drinking

That's good to hear but it certainly isn't the norm. All you have to do is head into town on Paddy's Day... any college night out... Junior Cert. results night... hang around Old Wesley on disco night...

Lots of those parents have/had the same attitude and it doesn't necessarily work for all children. Were you allowed to get drunk at home? If not, then what did you get out of your system?
Ireland doesn't have a drink culture that supports responsible drinking so it is very difficult to raise a child to have that attitude.

I personally believe that encouraging young people to involve themselves in sports and in activities that don't mix with alcohol and, in helping them to abstain until they are mature enough to hopefully not find the concept of drinking until they're bladdered all that appealing.

I also feel that alcohol contributes to underage promiscuity, pregnancy, STI's and, in gereral, sexually demeaning behaviours.

06-03-2011 01:25PM

Squirm wrote: »

That's good to hear but it certainly isn't the norm. All you have to do is head into town on Paddy's Day... any college night out... Junior Cert. results night... hang around Old Wesley on disco night...

Lots of those parents have/had the same attitude and it doesn't necessarily work for all children. Were you allowed to get drunk at home? If not, then what did you get out of your system?

I was, yes
Admittedly I'm not the norm, I was younger than my peers so I wasn't going off to old wesley etc and I was drinking in college a bit younger, but yeah I got it out of my system

I personally believe that encouraging young people to involve themselves in sports and in activities that don't mix with alcohol and, in helping them to abstain until they are mature enough to hopefully not find the concept of drinking until they're bladdered all that appealing.

Yes, I agree with the first part but not the second

I also feel that alcohol contributes to underage promiscuity, pregnancy, STI's and, in gereral, sexually demeaning behaviours.

Ehm, I don't. There's a lot of lack of sex ed in this country and some of the attitudes and "info" people have while stone cold sober is shocking. And I mean at all ages, not just younger people.

Mike 1972 · 06-03-2011 01:27PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere before that it's illegal to give someone under 5 a drink. You have to wonder how big of a problem it was to actually make that a law.

Dunno about this part of the world but in parts of the US during the mid 19th century it was quite common.

Seemengly they used to put it in babies bottles to quieten down "cranky" babies :eek:

Would imagine it being pretty counter productive when the hangover kicked in though

PeakOutput · 06-03-2011 01:39PM

Squirm wrote: »

That's good to hear but it certainly isn't the norm. All you have to do is head into town on Paddy's Day... any college night out... Junior Cert. results night... hang around Old Wesley on disco night...

Lots of those parents have/had the same attitude and it doesn't necessarily work for all children. Were you allowed to get drunk at home? If not, then what did you get out of your system?
Ireland doesn't have a drink culture that supports responsible drinking so it is very difficult to raise a child to have that attitude.

I personally believe that encouraging young people to involve themselves in sports and in activities that don't mix with alcohol and, in helping them to abstain until they are mature enough to hopefully not find the concept of drinking until they're bladdered all that appealing.

I also feel that alcohol contributes to underage promiscuity, pregnancy, STI's and, in gereral, sexually demeaning behaviours.

I understand that I am not going to make any difference to your opinion but,imo, the more you try and keep your kids away from something the more they will want it.

the ideal would be encouraging them into sports and hobbies obviously but at the same time removing the novelty of alcohol, half a glass of wine with dinner. a pint or a bottle with mam or dad as they get older and obviously a good example of seeing peers people drinking responsibly.

I guarantee you the people you see legless at the wes are not the people who have been raised like this.

However, it is our irresponsible drinking culture that dictates the age restriction and the same goes for other, for example, European countries, where drink is not such a social problem and young people can drink in moderation, over a meal and with family etc etc.

That is simply not true. the age restriction encourages irresponsible drinking because people who feel like they are grown individuals and should be able to do what they want are forced to do it illicitly which means its secret and taboo and not only more exciting as a result but they feel they cant ask anyone about it because the automatic answer will be no its illegal you cant do that.

a lower age limit gets rid of the taboo and the excitement of it and encourages an open conversation about it. the state the 15/16/17 yr olds get themselves in simply wouldnt be tolerated in a pub or a club and they would soon realise that they cant get legless if they dont want to get kicked out

Mike 1972 · 06-03-2011 01:50PM

Ive always maintained that the minimum age for buying alchol in Ireland/UK is way too high and theres a lot of humbug and hypocricy in most public discussion on the subject of "underage drinking". In Germany they have different ages for beer and spirits which seems to be a somewhat more sensible approach.

PeakOutput wrote: »

the state the 15/16/17 yr olds get themselves in simply wouldnt be tolerated in a pub or a club and they would soon realise that they cant get legless if they dont want to get kicked out

In my experience that would be very dependent on the type of pub/club in question

brummytom · 06-03-2011 01:58PM

I think - over here at least - no one really cares about underage drinking other than the media.

Everyone knows it's happens, I'm sure it always will. But yeah, it'd be nice to be able to go up to a bar without having to try and act confident.

HavingCrack · 06-03-2011 02:02PM

NeedaNewName wrote: »

Age should be raised to 21 or 25 IMO. Way to much drinking and drinking related problems in this country.

Whatever argument you could make about a 21 age limit (and I've heard them and they're all absolutely rubbish, you're either an adult at 18 or you aren't, there's no halfway) I honestly do not know how you could justify a 25 age limit. Can you imagine someone married with children who has been working for the last 7 years being told they're not old enough to consume alcohol? Madness.

GV_NRG · 06-03-2011 02:06PM

there are a good few reasons why underagers drink but i think its down to 3 main ones.

1. like PeakOutput said, its the whole taboo of the thing that make young people like me wanna go out. there is no better feeling than going past the bouncer and not getting asked and being able to enjoy the night

2. The reason why underagers drink is because it is simply the culture we grew up in.

3. the most important thing i would like to highlight is the WAY young people are introduced to alcohol. i dont mean to ause offence but i know for a fact that what Squirm, as a parent, is the completly wrong way of going about it! by stopping your child from ever going near alcohol, u are going to raise her curiosity 10 fold. also there is the kick of getting drink when you are no supposed to.

What my parents did was the best imo. as i was growing up they introduced me to drink a small bit in the home, then as i got older i was allowed to drink more at home. this removed any curiosty that i had. i have been going to the local pubs and nightclubs since i was 16 and ever since my 1st time out, i realised that what my parents hade done was working brilliantly. all the other people my age were getting legless while i was drinking away at my own pace and not at one stage did i want to get smashed!

just to point out, i , in no way, condone underage drinking!!

Irish_Elect_Eng · 06-03-2011 02:11PM

Squirm wrote: »

I think that it is easy to look at countries that have a lower age restriction and, also, less of a "getting pissed and puking in the gutter" culture and, compare it to those countries with an higher age restriction, where drink poses a bigger social problem and conclude that prohibiting alcohol is making people less responsible drinkers and encouraging people to drink younger.

However, it is our irresponsible drinking culture that dictates the age restriction and the same goes for other, for example, European countries, where drink is not such a social problem and young people can drink in moderation, over a meal and with family etc etc.

The main issue with under age drinking is that the younger a person's body the less able it is to cope with the toxin that alcohol is and the more damage it does. Alcohol related illness is a massive drain on the health system. Alcohol related domestic problems are also a huge social problem in Ireland.

Were we to lower the drinking age, it would be MANY generations before the excitement of prohibition was forgotten and our young people able to approach drinking with a more responsibile attitude.

Young people and, in general, people with lower levels of intelligence and a lesser concept of social resposibility, are more likely to behave in a socially unacceptable manner while intoxicated. This alone is a good reason to police the sale of alcohol to minors as rigidly as possible.

Having worked with young people demonstrating risk-taking and self-harming behaviours (and with families struggling to cope with the cycles of abuse, poverty and depression that alcoholism can cause) I have seen first hand the 'worst case scenarios'.

As a parent I am not interested in a lower age restriction and I plan to educate my children to abstain from drinking for as long as possible and will worry if I find she is in a peer group with others who have permission to drink and/or who drink socially at a young age.

I agree with this viewpoint.

In particular that the "age restriction" is not really relevant to educating children on the social benefits and risks of alcohol and our drinking culture. Without addressing the underlying issues the age be it 14 to 21 makes little difference. Most teenagers have poor control when it comes to alcohol, it is hard enough making your way through your teenage years without throwing alcohol or drugs into the mix or hormones and social adjustment that is part of being a teenager.

I find it sad that many people point to our schools and other authorities as being at fault for "poor alcohol education" or " poor sex-education" while abdicating their responsibility as primary educators for their children.

brummytom · 06-03-2011 02:16PM

Squirm wrote: »

As a parent I am not interested in a lower age restriction and I plan to educate my children to abstain from drinking for as long as possible and will worry if I find she is in a peer group with others who have permission to drink and/or who drink socially at a young age.

I'm not trying to take a pop at your parenting at all, but do you really think that is the best approach? Teenagers drink, it's just what they/we do. Do you not think that by making teaching her that alcohol is a terrible thing while all of her friends are drinking it will stop her from drinking it?

You could be the best parent in the world, but kids will always want to rebel in some way, however small it is. Preventing her from doing anything could just be giving her an opportunity to rebel.

man.about.town · 06-03-2011 02:20PM

i think there it the law should be as strict if not stricter on underage drinkers or those who buy it for them. most teenagers dont have much self control, when i was younger i was one, im still a big binge drinker to this day. we cant abolish it.

personally i would like to see no kid drinking until 18

PeakOutput · 06-03-2011 02:49PM

Oh and one other thing

I think over exagerating the consequences of certain actions is an absolutely terrible idea

for example, if you tell your kid that alcohol is a terrible drug that they will get addicted to, spend all their money on and lose friends over they will probably believe you. Until they see their friends drinking and realising that none of those things are happening to their friends.

so then they will try it for themselves and realise that what mom and dad told me was not true. why would they lie? what else have they lied about?

well they told me that weed was a terrible addictive drug that causes heartache as well, i wonder did they lie about that too? oh look one of my mates got stoned last night and he seems fine today, maybe ill try it.

well they told me one ecstasy tablet will kill me, but sure i saw all those lads in the year ahead of me on pills the other night and they are in school fine today, why do my parents keep lieing to me, im gonna try it.

so on and so forth

hacx · 06-03-2011 03:45PM

Underaged drinker here.
Due to my flowing locks an burly physique I find little trouble in getting served at off Lisences. The only time i'd ever get asked for ID is if the person behind the counter knew me.
Only time I'd ever get turned down going into a nightclub would be if the bouncers were comlete pr1cks or my fake ID started falling apart in his hands (oh god the shame).
But even then, I gave a rousing speech asking them to remember their youth and that one cunt of a bouncer who'd never lent them in anywhere and I got in.

bodhrandude · 06-03-2011 05:33PM

Slightly off topic but loosely related: The off licensing rule applied to music festivals in Ireland should be looked at too. Initially the 10 pm - 10.30 pm closing time for bars at Oxegen festival had been in place for a while, which made sense in a way considering the minimum age was 17 years old. But then they went and introduced the same law to the Electric Picnic which is aimed at an older demographic of audience. Look at the UK festivals, the bars are opened till 2 am or even later at Glastonbury. The law needs to be changed as regards, makeshift or temporary bars which get classed as the office license law. My memory of EP 2005 was that bars in the Body & Soul area stayed open till 2 am, whilst the arena bars shut at 10 pm, but now it applies to all areas of the festival. Its a bit ****ed up really.

Chuchoter · 06-03-2011 05:50PM

I think we should have a system similar to the rest of Europe where you can get beer at 16 and spirits at 18, because to be honest its not the actual availability of drink thats the issue, its that if you are 18 and you want to go have fun somewhere, there is literally nowhere to go. By 16 you've outgrown Wez and the like but you are still too young for any kind of nightclub, and thats where you have people getting hammered on estate greens. Bringing up the drinking age is just stupid and impractical.

I don't know if I'd say underage drinking is taken too seriously, I'd more say there is a massive head in the sand problem, because in my year there are a fair few girls who I'd say have a real problem with alcohol, drinking alone, stomach pumped, blackouts.

Mammanabammana · 06-03-2011 07:07PM

The difference between unlawful and illegal is straightforward enough to define.

One is against the law.

The other one is a sick bird.

Arf.

Diabhal Beag · 06-03-2011 07:12PM

Its always the sheltered people (as in haven't drink before 18 or older) who take the drinking too far.

I grew up in a family where maybe once a year my Dad might give me a can of Heineken during a match. It made me aware of what alcohol was and how you don't have to get ****ed out of your mind to have a good time.

I now enjoy a pint or two every weekend and don't feel the need to drink a flagin.

hacx · 06-03-2011 07:41PM

Its always the sheltered people (as in haven't drink before 18 or older) who take the drinking too far.

In my experience plenty of people under 18 take drinking too far.

Aoifey! · 06-03-2011 09:50PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

I understand that I am not going to make any difference to your opinion but,imo, the more you try and keep your kids away from something the more they will want it.

This. In my house, drinking was completely forbidden, alcohol was evil and if we were to come home drunk it'd be the worst thing we could have done. So what did I do? I didn't come home. I learnt to lie to my parents and drink from the age of 15. If it had have been more relaxed all alone, I wouldn't have needed to lie and sneak off to get off my face with my parents thinking I was having a girly sleepover at a friends.

Chaotic_Forces · 06-03-2011 09:53PM

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Its always the sheltered people (as in haven't drink before 18 or older) who take the drinking too far.

I grew up in a family where maybe once a year my Dad might give me a can of Heineken during a match. It made me aware of what alcohol was and how you don't have to get ****ed out of your mind to have a good time.

I now enjoy a pint or two every weekend and don't feel the need to drink a flagin.

Wrong.

I never drank before 18 and I'm perfectly fine now.

Metallitroll · 06-03-2011 09:59PM

i think its too much, drinking was essentially a young thing for me anyhow couldn't possibly get excited about it now. so more of a fúckin chore chugging down all that dank piss.. not teetotal, but leaning towards the 'leave drink to the young' camp

Chaotic_Forces · 06-03-2011 10:03PM

Metallitroll wrote: »

i think its too much, drinking was essentially a young thing for me anyhow couldn't possibly get excited about it now. so more of a fúckin chore chugging down all that dank piss.. not teetotal, but leaning towards the 'leave drink to the young' camp

Why not just drink alcohol you enjoy instead of drinking for the sake of drinking.

MonkeyGuy · 06-03-2011 10:13PM

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Why not just drink alcohol you enjoy instead of drinking for the sake of drinking.

That's what we need to learn though! I'm sixteen and I do drink because my parents let me. I don't get pissed, because I lived in town for a while and there's plenty of pubs around, I learned myself the drunk people are pricks and I never wanted to be one. My parents taught me that alcohol was fine once you didn't take it too far, now I have the odd drink with my friends, never take it too far and don't feel the need to lie about it. I read posts about people in their year with drinking problems... Yeah same story here. Mainly they were the kids who were let down town when they were really young and hung out with older people who taught them that when you're 13 you have to drink to have fun. They're now the people who drink too much, smoke (cigarettes if not weed) now I'm glad I wasn't allowed go to those "Madtt daiis gttin pissd"

Metallitroll · 06-03-2011 10:14PM

nice concept. i don't really enjoy it.. really does have to be some form of excitement attached, then its a case of can't stop :rolleyes: i don't really see em teens discreetly enjoying the finer aspects of a premium whiskey either, they just wanna swill booze n get crazy

but as someone who couldn't possibly get addicted, esp. having had to pick up my old man n clean up the diarrhea up one time, n booze killed him at 50, sob, sob, i forgot to consider folk can develop a taste for it. fúck that man..

goose2005 · 06-03-2011 11:35PM

NeedaNewName wrote: »

Age should be raised to 21 or 25 IMO. Way to much drinking and drinking related problems in this country.

Maybe it should be banned for over 50s - after all, if everyone stopped drinking at 50 it'd stop all sorts of problems. Or maybe a lifelong limit of 10,000 units? Or something similarly stupid.:rolleyes:

Does anyone else think the whole underage drinking thing is taken way too seriously?

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