Does anyone else think the whole underage drinking thing is taken way too seriously?

Croppy Bhoy · 06-03-2011 01:50AM #1

Hear me out on this...

The Licensing & Liqueur Act makes it illegal to sell alcohol to under 18s. This is without a doubt taken very seriously, at least in most large cities. Establishments require people, even up to the age of 25-30 in some cases, to carry with them a very expensive, important government document simply to set foot in the place. Along with this come all sorts of nonsense like not accepting passports (Aldi and Lidl have done this) or driver's licenses (Dunnes), always sporadically enforced depending on how much of a jobsworth happens to serve you. All in all, even for a mature, responsible young adult, it is quite a hassle.

Now The Act also makes it unlawful to sell alcohol to an intoxicated person. And yet every night of the week, millions of people in this country are walking into pubs and especially nightclubs, absolutely trollied and being served drink. Yes there are bouncers who will prevent those who are "too drunk" from entering, but they fully realise that 99% of people would never go to a nightclub sober (the 1% usually being non-drinkers). A bouncer wouldn't let a 17 year old in 'at their discretion', but would do so with a drunk person.

Now as far as I'm aware, this is unlawful rather than illegal. That means it's technically a crime you could be prosecuted for in the case of that person dying. The point of the law being they can hold someone responsible if someone dies of alcohol poisoning.

Now I ask you why the same approach can't be taken with 'underage' drinkers. If serving an intoxicated person a drink only becomes a problem when it is the 'one too many', why can't serving a 17 year old a pint in a pub be a problem only if they end up in a state or causing aggro?

IMO serving a drunk person more drink is a lot worse than serving someone who is 17, or might just not have the correct government documents on them to show they're older.

Discuss!

Chaotic_Forces · 06-03-2011 01:52AM

Long story short: kids are drinking on the streets, getting pissed, getting into fights.

That's the problem. The idiots (and they are idiots for this) in the government think that "oh, if we stop underage kids from buying alcohol, they won't drink it!".

hondasam · 06-03-2011 01:53AM

No to tired to read it or discuss it.

TheZohanS · 06-03-2011 01:53AM

Croppy Bhoy wrote: »

Now as far as I'm aware, this is unlawful rather than illegal.

Lol

Doom · 06-03-2011 01:55AM

I'd tazzer the lot of ye

Wolfe Tone · 06-03-2011 01:56AM

Dont let underage people into bars, lest we end up statutory raping people

amacca · 06-03-2011 01:57AM

lighten up OP....have a drinky.

Croppy Bhoy · 06-03-2011 01:59AM

TheZohan wrote: »

Lol

There is a difference between the terms.

Either way, there is certainly a difference between how each is enforced. If the "don't serve a drunk" was enforced with the same gusto, there would be breathalysers at every bar.

AlmightyCushion · 06-03-2011 02:00AM

Don't know why you're talking about having to carry around your passport. My age card has never been refused and the thing cost €6.

I remember reading somewhere before that it's illegal to give someone under 5 a drink. You have to wonder how big of a problem it was to actually make that a law.

PeakOutput · 06-03-2011 02:01AM

anti social behaviour is not the reason why it is a bad idea to serve under 18 yr olds alcohol (although if the age was lowered to 16 id be fine with that)

letting someone whos brain and body are still developing put drugs through their system is not a good idea

i have no problem with an adult doing any drug they want but it is far more damaging to a child/teenager

let their brains have the best possible chance to develop and then let them use those brains to decide what drugs they will or wont take

HavingCrack · 06-03-2011 02:01AM

It's the usual government approach to these sort of problems. It's very similar to how they approach illegal drugs. They think "if we make something illegal it will stop people using it" which is a method that simply does work. The real thing they should be doing is questioning why teenagers feel the need to start drinking. Easy answer is because the whole country (with a few exceptions obviously) has a serious problem with alcohol. Until everybody starts taking a more mature attitude to drinking the underage problem is simply going to get worse.

Red Hand · 06-03-2011 02:01AM

TheZohan wrote: »

Lol

Lots of Love?

WTF? (World Taekwondo Federation?)

amacca · 06-03-2011 02:04AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere before that it's illegal to give someone under 5 a drink. You have to wonder how big of a problem it was to actually make that a law.

When I was in secondary school my dear boy there were bars where the pints were larger in stature than the clientele ordering them.

Croppy Bhoy · 06-03-2011 02:08AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Don't know why you're talking about having to carry around your passport. My age card has never been refused and the thing cost €6.

Fair point. It costs €10 though, and takes months to receive (this is true for virtually everyone I know who applied, including myself).

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere before that it's illegal to give someone under 5 a drink. You have to wonder how big of a problem it was to actually make that a law.

That's in reference to medicines and stuff that have alcohol in them IIRC. It raises a good point though, we can legally get paralytic at home yet it's a massive deal if I want to go out and enjoy a few drinks with friends without ID.

PeakOutput wrote: »

anti social behaviour is not the reason why it is a bad idea to serve under 18 yr olds alcohol (although if the age was lowered to 16 id be fine with that)

letting someone whos brain and body are still developing put drugs through their system is not a good idea

i have no problem with an adult doing any drug they want but it is far more damaging to a child/teenager

let their brains have the best possible chance to develop and then let them use those brains to decide what drugs they will or wont take

Also a good point, but I'd put forward that if you ever want to experiment with drugs, you should do so before you have any major responsibilities (job, house, family).

Cheap Thrills! · 06-03-2011 02:11AM

Kids are gonna drink.

AlmightyCushion · 06-03-2011 02:12AM

Croppy Bhoy wrote: »

Fair point. It costs €10 though, and takes months to receive (this is true for virtually everyone I know who applied, including myself).

My friend got his in about 3 weeks but that seems to be rare. The two I applied for though took tough a couple of months. The stupid part is that you can't apply for it until you're 18.

HavingCrack · 06-03-2011 02:14AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

My friend got his in about 3 weeks but that seems to be rare. The two I applied for though took tough a couple of months. The stupid part is that you can't apply for it until you're 18.

Also only lasts until you're 22 me thinks?

AlmightyCushion · 06-03-2011 02:16AM

HavingCrack wrote: »

Also only lasts until you're 22 me thinks?

Doesn't say anything about that on mine.

doolox · 06-03-2011 02:19AM

The restrictions on bis too buying drink after 10pm and before 10am and the need for ID ONLY ( no passport or driing licence will do...) in most supermarkets is too restrictive.

Thank God I am over 50 and obviously off the scale agewise to be asked for ID but have seen the hassle it causes 18-30 year olds in attempting to buy drink in off licences and supermarkets.

The politicians that caused this ( Michael McDowell and the 10pm restriction...) are at least gone off the scene and all the others should follow.

Croppy Bhoy · 06-03-2011 02:33AM

doolox wrote: »

The restrictions on bis too buying drink after 10pm and before 10am and the need for ID ONLY ( no passport or driing licence will do...) in most supermarkets is too restrictive.

Thank God I am over 50 and obviously off the scale agewise to be asked for ID but have seen the hassle it causes 18-30 year olds in attempting to buy drink in off licences and supermarkets.

The politicians that caused this ( Michael McDowell and the 10pm restriction...) are at least gone off the scene and all the others should follow.

The 10pm thing is an absolute con to get the pubs busier. But of course it masquerades as "oh sure it's for the good the people".

FG won't roll it back either. Shadow ministers are forever trying to brown-nose the public by undermining and disagreeing with everything the present government does, but as soon as they get into power themselves they forget all about it.

Irish_Elect_Eng · 06-03-2011 02:33AM

Croppy Bhoy wrote: »

There is a difference between the terms.

Either way, there is certainly a difference between how each is enforced. If the "don't serve a drunk" was enforced with the same gusto, there would be breathalysers at every bar.

Unlawful == Illegal

From http://www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of UNLAWFUL

1 : not lawful : illegal
2 : not morally right or conventional
— un·law·ful·ly adverb
— un·law·ful·ness noun

Examples of UNLAWFUL
The sale of alcohol to minors is unlawful.
<it is unlawful to set off fireworks within the city limits>

First Known Use of UNLAWFUL
14th century
Related to UNLAWFUL

Synonyms:
criminal, felonious, illegitimate, illicit, lawless, illegal, wrongful
Antonyms: lawful, legal, legitimate

Definition of ILLEGAL

: not according to or authorized by law : unlawful, illicit; also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)
— il·le·gal·i·ty noun
— il·le·gal·ly adverb

Examples of ILLEGAL
In this state, it is illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to drink alcohol.
The team was penalized for an illegal play.
Origin of ILLEGAL

Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French illegal, from Medieval Latin illegalis, from Latin in- + legalis legal
First Known Use: 1538

Related to ILLEGAL
Synonyms: criminal, felonious, illegitimate, illicit, lawless, unlawful, wrongful
Antonyms: lawful, legal, legitimate

*LOL: In the dictionary, both words use example of selling drink to kids as an example

PeakOutput · 06-03-2011 11:39AM

Croppy Bhoy wrote: »

Also a good point, but I'd put forward that if you ever want to experiment with drugs, you should do so before you have any major responsibilities (job, house, family).

ye absolutely but, and i mean no disrespect, that reply suggests to me you are yourself a teenager and you still probably think you only have a couple years of social life left before your old and have to settle down with responsibilities.

and thats simply not the case

06-03-2011 11:42AM

I think maybe the culture should adapt a bit, drinking lightly with family instead of making it a massive deal. I think that's actually legal.

Tahuti · 06-03-2011 11:48AM

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

Unlawful == Illegal

From http://www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of UNLAWFUL

1 : not lawful : illegal
2 : not morally right or conventional
— un·law·ful·ly adverb
— un·law·ful·ness noun

Examples of UNLAWFUL
The sale of alcohol to minors is unlawful.
<it is unlawful to set off fireworks within the city limits>

First Known Use of UNLAWFUL
14th century
Related to UNLAWFUL

Synonyms:
criminal, felonious, illegitimate, illicit, lawless, illegal, wrongful
Antonyms: lawful, legal, legitimate

Definition of ILLEGAL

: not according to or authorized by law : unlawful, illicit; also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)
— il·le·gal·i·ty noun
— il·le·gal·ly adverb

Examples of ILLEGAL
In this state, it is illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to drink alcohol.
The team was penalized for an illegal play.
Origin of ILLEGAL

Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French illegal, from Medieval Latin illegalis, from Latin in- + legalis legal
First Known Use: 1538

Related to ILLEGAL
Synonyms: criminal, felonious, illegitimate, illicit, lawless, unlawful, wrongful
Antonyms: lawful, legal, legitimate

*LOL: In the dictionary, both words use example of selling drink to kids as an example

There is a legal distinction between the two.

Illegal means "against or not authorized by law." Unlawful means "contrary to, prohibited, or unauthorized by law...while necessarily not implying the element of criminality, it is broad enough to include it." (Black's Law Dictionary)

There are examples of the distinction in your post.

.

NeedaNewName · 06-03-2011 12:05PM

Age should be raised to 21 or 25 IMO. Way to much drinking and drinking related problems in this country.

06-03-2011 12:08PM

NeedaNewName wrote: »

Age should be raised to 21 or 25 IMO. Way to much drinking and drinking related problems in this country.

That hasn't worked in the USA though
I really think a more family oriented, meal oriented attitude to drinking would help

Azureus · 06-03-2011 12:08PM

The whole 10pm cut off thing is the most annoying thing in the world.
Also, the different IDs needed to buy alcohol is ridiculous; I dont understand why there can't be a single legally accepted ID, rather than at the stores discretion (ok, I know its for forgeries etc, but having to carry around a driving licence, passport AND garda ID is insane). I'm 22 and have been asked for something to 'back up' my passport/garda ID to prove its me. The picture looks like me, surely that should be enough. Its only a bottle of wine Im trying to buy, along with a steak and some spuds; does it REALLY look like Im about to go on the knack with my 16 year old buddies?!?!

Ireland is way too strict with alcohol in some ways, but then can be ridiculously lax in other ways. Makes no sense. Least our legal age limit isnt 21 I suppose.

Also, while on the topic, have to say Ive noticed way more bar staff refusing people because they're drunk in the last 12 months. I think its probably because people are getting locked at home more than before, and then ending up in shreds, but at least this is being enforced.

NeedaNewName · 06-03-2011 12:12PM

bluewolf wrote: »

That hasn't worked in the USA though
I really think a more family oriented, meal oriented attitude to drinking would help

True. But the yanks are not really known as a nation of drinkers like us and some eastern euro states. All countries will have its fair share of alco no matter what but we are at the high end of that curve.

immature ejaculation · 06-03-2011 12:21PM

Kids should be seen not heard. So stay out of our bars!

wobzilla1 · 06-03-2011 12:22PM

Croppy Bhoy wrote: »

The 10pm thing is an absolute con to get the pubs busier. But of course it masquerades as "oh sure it's for the good the people".

The 12.30 on Sunday restriction is the worst. The restrictions were meant to tackle antisocial behaviour and the like. The only people we ever get trying to buy alcohol before 12.30 on Sunday are people who want a nice bottle of wine to go with the Sunday dinner. They're probably the most responsible drinkers possible.

MagicSean · 06-03-2011 12:31PM

Croppy Bhoy wrote: »

Also a good point, but I'd put forward that if you ever want to experiment with drugs, you should do so before you have any major responsibilities (job, house, family).

Thats what college is for.

Does anyone else think the whole underage drinking thing is taken way too seriously?

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