Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

ardmacha · 03-03-2011 12:25AM

Actually there are many people in the country who think major reform is needed in the area of public sector pay.

Well there is you, Japer and Jimmmy anyway.

MagicSean · 03-03-2011 12:30AM

ardmacha wrote: »

Well there is you, Japer and Jimmmy anyway.

I'd say some of the others at that 30 year reunion are probably pissed too.

gigino · 03-03-2011 01:24AM

ardmacha wrote: »

Well there is you, Japer and Jimmmy anyway.

I do not know about Japer and k-mac/martin1980/ the-Thing/and whatever he calls himself now, but one thing for sure : a lot of people in the country want to see government spending cut, as we cannot go on borrowing 20 billion a year more than the tax take just to keep the country running. More than me and a few others voted for parties who will make the necessary savings, and more than a few people read the likes of the Sunday Times and Sunday Independent....and thankfully, as you would expect given the situation in the country, more than a few people are willing to stand up to the hardline public sector trade unionists on boards.ie Common sense in economic affairs must prevail.

MagicSean · 03-03-2011 07:54AM

gigino wrote: »

I do not know about Japer and k-mac/martin1980/ the-Thing/and whatever he calls himself now, but one thing for sure : a lot of people in the country want to see government spending cut, as we cannot go on borrowing 20 billion a year more than the tax take just to keep the country running. More than me and a few others voted for parties who will make the necessary savings, and more than a few people read the likes of the Sunday Times and Sunday Independent....and thankfully, as you would expect given the situation in the country, more than a few people are willing to stand up to the hardline public sector trade unionists on boards.ie Common sense in economic affairs must prevail.

Are you trying to suggest I have more than one username? Listen, your credibility has been shot. You're clearly making stuff up and have a serious chip on your soldier. I don't know if you're a troll or if you are so single minded that you just can't see anything that goes against your view but I'm leaning towards troll. If the Sunday papers are your main source of info you might as well stop posting because you and your multiple personalities will be shown up continuously.

waster81 · 03-03-2011 01:00PM

When will see reform in the private sector professions ( accountants, dentists, doctors, lawyers , bankers etc. )

gigino · 03-03-2011 02:51PM

waster81 wrote: »

When will see reform in the private sector professions ( accountants, dentists, doctors, lawyers , bankers etc. )

God only knows in this basket case of a country. At least though, the average person does not need to use an accountant. Only self employed and business people have to use and pay accountants, to calculate + prove their taxes to the revenue etc. As regards dentists and doctors, my taxes do not support these " private sector professions"...in fact they may say their taxes support public sector professions. Nobody is forced to pay towards a private sector dentist in this country, for example - you can always go across the border to N. Ireland to have your teeth done, or to Hungary, and some people do. As as regards the bankers, they were badly regulated by the public sector ( regulator, central bank, government etc ) and most of these same bankers are now effectively public service now !

I think many peoples gripe is that, despite this being one of the most bankrupt countries in the world, they have no choice in having their taxes etc support one of the highest paid public services ( inc governments ) and social services ( unemployed etc ) in the world. Hence they vote Fine Gael, to try to change things. Peoples taxes / government borrowing etc does not support an overpaid private sector ( although we all detest the charges and fees some in the private sector in this country charges. Most of the 1.8 million people in the private sector do not benefit from the fees charged by the professions you name above ). Time the government here ensured our professions here charged only the same amount of professional fees as in N. Ireland, Wales or Scotland for example. A few other sectors should be targetted as well e.g. students should have to pay a higher cost of their third level education.

sollar · 03-03-2011 04:21PM

gigino wrote: »

As regards dentists and doctors, my taxes do not support these " private sector professions"...in fact they may say their taxes support public sector professions.

Your taxes do support these. Doctors get capitation fees for medical card patients.

doc_17 · 03-03-2011 05:36PM

gigino wrote: »

As regards dentists and doctors, my taxes do not support these " private sector professions.[/QUOTE

really?

Red Actor · 03-03-2011 08:52PM

gigino wrote: »

Actually I wish there was less of a division between the pay and pensions in the public sector and the pay + pensions elsewhere. Ireland is a small place + everyone knows someone else. It creates a lot of division for many people in todays society for example, to see 49 year olds who were public servants ( Gardai ) now living the lifestyle of retired millionaires. Its not sustainable and can be quite embarassing.

Average garda pay is often quoted as 60k - lets say most retire on 80k. They get 120k of a lump to buy their Spanish villa and then get a pension of 40k per annum. Very nice money but hardly millionaire lifestyle territory. Adjust the figures if the the garda retires on the average and you 90k lump and 30k pension. Extremely comfortable - hardly lavish.

ParkRunner · 03-03-2011 10:24PM

I wonder if Eircom was still public sector would people be up in arms about staff taking extra unpaid annual leave instead of a direct paycut!

Gumbo · 03-03-2011 10:37PM

Red Actor wrote: »

Average garda pay is often quoted as 60k - lets say most retire on 80k. They get 120k of a lump to buy their Spanish villa and then get a pension of 40k per annum. Very nice money but hardly millionaire lifestyle territory. Adjust the figures if the the garda retires on the average and you 90k lump and 30k pension. Extremely comfortable - hardly lavish.

not many gardai retire on 80k :rolleyes:

Spudmonkey · 03-03-2011 10:41PM

Red Actor wrote: »

Average garda pay is often quoted as 60k - lets say most retire on 80k. They get 120k of a lump to buy their Spanish villa and then get a pension of 40k per annum. Very nice money but hardly millionaire lifestyle territory. Adjust the figures if the the garda retires on the average and you 90k lump and 30k pension. Extremely comfortable - hardly lavish.

When I retire in 2049, I am projected to get a lump sum of 41k and a yearly total of 1.8k. Hardly a garda pension is it now?

The_Honeybadger · 03-03-2011 11:02PM

EF wrote: »

I wonder if Eircom was still public sector would people be up in arms about staff taking extra unpaid annual leave instead of a direct paycut!

LOL don't get me started about Eircom, I know one Eircom worker very well and if his work ethic is anything to go by it is a miracle the company is still in business. He has every trick going to swindle extra (unearned) expenses, take unapproved days off & half days, you name it, and like he says himself, all his colleagues have been doing it for years, management are well aware of it so he'd be a fool to leave it after him. What a mess of a company, no doubt at some stage we'll be asked to bail them out too when they are on the verge of going belly up because of years of poor management. Sorry for going OT but the attitude of some of their employees really sickens me.

gigino · 03-03-2011 11:10PM

Red Actor wrote: »

Average garda pay is often quoted as 60k - lets say most retire on 80k. They get 120k of a lump to buy their Spanish villa and then get a pension of 40k per annum.

Do not forget the lump sum is tax free....so its nearly the same as getting a taxable quarter of a million euro in most jurisdictions;)
Also do not forget this nice lump sum and pension of 30,000 per year is got after only 30 years of service....so the retired Gardai now are only 49 or 50 years old, and most of these were not 3rd level graduates or anything...in fact in 1980 / 1981 there was a joke you had to do an entry level test to join the gardai and if you were too clever they would not let you join ! ( now of course many gardai are well qualified but we are talking about the existing retirees )

Red Actor wrote: »

Very nice money but hardly millionaire lifestyle territory.

Red Actor wrote: »

hardly lavish

something wrong when you think the above public service renumeration is sustainable - or indeed morally correct - in arguably the most bankrupt country in the world, with the IMF here, when the average public sector wage in our neighbour the UK ( a G7 industrialised country + which is helping to bail us out ) is only 22k stg.

gigino · 04-03-2011 01:42PM

Red Actor wrote: »

Average garda pay is often quoted as 60k - lets say most retire on 80k. They get 120k of a lump to buy their Spanish villa and then get a pension of 40k per annum. Very nice money

I agree with your point.

k_mac wrote: »

There is no point. You just ignore all facts posted by other people and continue with your misinformation.

lol. I have actually posted links to show my facts, and others have agreed with me. If you dispute the c.s.o. statistics for example on public sector pay, why do you not take it up with the c.s.o.?

Gumbo · 04-03-2011 03:14PM

gigino wrote: »

lol. I have actually posted links to show my facts, and others have agreed with me.

where?

was the others Jimmmy? or Japer?

noodler · 04-03-2011 03:17PM

kceire wrote: »

where?

was the others Jimmmy? or Japer?

Are you and K-mac the same person?

What do you mean where?

The MoU?

The Pay and Pensions Bill?

EDIT: The recent Department of Finance review is quiting damning on the way PS pay levels inflated during the boom.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/reports/2011/deptreview.pdf

MagicSean · 04-03-2011 03:23PM

gigino wrote: »

I have actually posted links to show my facts, and others have agreed with me. If you dispute the c.s.o. statistics for example on public sector pay, why do you not take it up with the c.s.o.?

The CSO figures you posted show average pay across the entire sector. You seem to have taken this to mean everyone earns the same thing. A complete misunderstanding of what the word "average" means. The CSO figures are completely useless when looking at low paid workers and comparing their pay to other countries. I have given you a prime example of this and you have completely ignored it.

Gumbo · 04-03-2011 03:23PM

noodler wrote: »

Are you and K-mac the same person?

why would that question arise, i dont post in the same manner as kmac, im online when he is etc etc

anyway, mods can do an ip check

are you an alter ego of jimmmy too or japer or gigino, or god i cant remember the rest now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

noodler · 04-03-2011 03:32PM

The hilarity of K-mac arguing about sources and other people's stats when he had to be shown Ireland's MoU with the EU-IMF and the deadline on reform progress in the PS

MagicSean · 04-03-2011 03:36PM

noodler wrote: »

The hilarity of K-mac arguing about sources and other people's stats when he had to be shown Ireland's MoU with the EU-IMF and the deadline on reform progress in the PS

What are you talking about?

EDIT: Never mind. I see the post you are talking about. You posted it as Gigino. I can't believe you still don't get it. Reducing the PS average wage by a certain percentage does not mean reducing everyones wage by that percentage. That is not the only way to reduce an average.

Black Swan · 04-03-2011 03:44PM

REMINDER...
Please be advised that a few of the above posts became a bit too personal, while at the same time drifting off-topic. Some of these posts have been deleted accordingly. Please focus on the content of posts, and not each other personally. Thanks, Black Swan.

noodler · 04-03-2011 04:34PM

k_mac wrote: »

EDIT: Never mind. I see the post you are talking about. You posted it as Gigino.

Excellent counterpoint - highly original!

k_mac wrote: »

I can't believe you still don't get it. Reducing the PS average wage by a certain percentage does not mean reducing everyones wage by that percentage. That is not the only way to reduce an average.

When, and please quote me here, have I ever said I want all PS workers wages reduced (or reduced by the same margin). As even, Kcerie will verify (the guy who thanks any post which is vaguely anti-cuts regardless of merit), I only want the overall bill reduced to something far more manageable.

Reducing numbers isn't my preferred way of doing this as its possible the public could lose out but I certainly don't think it is fair or necessary to just lazily take another 5% of people's wages across the board.

MagicSean · 04-03-2011 05:40PM

noodler wrote: »

Excellent counterpoint - highly original!

When, and please quote me here, have I ever said I want all PS workers wages reduced (or reduced by the same margin). As even, Kcerie will verify (the guy who thanks any post which is vaguely anti-cuts regardless of merit), I only want the overall bill reduced to something far more manageable.

Reducing numbers isn't my preferred way of doing this as its possible the public could lose out but I certainly don't think it is fair or necessary to just lazily take another 5% of people's wages across the board.

On that we are in agreement.

If you aren't actually gigino I do apologise and I'm sorry for misrepresenting you.

Gumbo · 04-03-2011 05:46PM

k_mac wrote: »

On that we are in agreement.

If you aren't actually gigino I do apologise and I'm sorry for misrepresenting you.

in fairness kmac, i dont think noodler is anybody else, i think he is genuine

still dont agree with his cuts though

ParkRunner · 04-03-2011 07:57PM

noodler wrote: »

Reducing numbers isn't my preferred way of doing this as its possible the public could lose out but I certainly don't think it is fair or necessary to just lazily take another 5% of people's wages across the board.

What is it you do want then?

RichardAnd · 05-03-2011 12:03PM

this thread has gone on for 100 odd pages and most of them are exactly the same. There are primarily two groups at work here; angry PS flamers and defensive PS workers. To both parties, I have the following to say.

PS Workers: I would never make a broad sweeping remark that every state employee is getting an "inflated salary". Further,I would never remark that all PS workers are lazy and have a soft number. However, the end of this is that the country is broke and your wages are going to be cut and no matter how much someone refutes this point and no matter how valid their argument might be, it has to happen.

PS Flamers: In a nation addicted to begrudgery, it's not surprising that hitting on those in state employment is so ubiquitous. It is no secret that we spend too much on the public service and many arguments raised by this side of the fence have merit. However, if you a person who actually wants to see people being made redundant and put into financial hardship then you need to take a look at yourself because there is something wrong. Further, I can't see how putting thousands of people out of work will do any good. It may have to happen, but I don't like it.

My two cents.

danbohan · 05-03-2011 12:11PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

this thread has gone on for 100 odd pages and most of them are exactly the same. There are primarily two groups at work here; angry PS flamers and defensive PS workers. To both parties, I have the following to say.

PS Workers: I would never make a broad sweeping remark that every state employee is getting an "inflated salary". Further,I would never remark that all PS workers are lazy and have a soft number. However, the end of this is that the country is broke and your wages are going to be cut and no matter how much someone refutes this point and no matter how valid their argument might be, it has to happen.

PS Flamers: In a nation addicted to begrudgery, it's not surprising that hitting on those in state employment is so ubiquitous. It is no secret that we spend too much on the public service and many arguments raised by this side of the fence have merit. However, if you a person who actually wants to see people being made redundant and put into financial hardship then you need to take a look at yourself because there is something wrong. Further, I can't see how putting thousands of people out of work will do any good. It may have to happen, but I don't like it.

My two cents.

I can't see how putting thousands of people out of work will do any good. It may have to happen, but I don't like it

of course nobody wants anybody to lose their job but the fact of the matter remains that an overpaid ,overstaffed, inefficient public service is an integral part of Irelands problems , many of those jobs should never have existed in the first place .

sollar · 05-03-2011 12:24PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

PS Workers: I would never make a broad sweeping remark that every state employee is getting an "inflated salary". Further,I would never remark that all PS workers are lazy and have a soft number. However, the end of this is that the country is broke and your wages are going to be cut and no matter how much someone refutes this point and no matter how valid their argument might be, it has to happen

The croke park agreement will prob be let run until 2014. It has less than 3 years to run. FG will get their 30,000 reduction along with significant reforms why blow that apart now. Anyway who's to say public servants won't face paycut in 2014.

RichardAnd wrote: »

PS Flamers: In a nation addicted to begrudgery, it's not surprising that hitting on those in state employment is so ubiquitous. It is no secret that we spend too much on the public service and many arguments raised by this side of the fence have merit. However, if you a person who actually wants to see people being made redundant and put into financial hardship then you need to take a look at yourself because there is something wrong. Further, I can't see how putting thousands of people out of work will do any good. It may have to happen, but I don't like it.

Sadly there are a few regulars on this thread that would be beside themselves with excitement if an announcement was made that public servants were to be sacked in their droves and the remainder have their wages slashed. I don't think that joy would be due to the easing of the nations fiscal problems either....

This thread should be allowed to die..... someone will start another one anyway in a day or two that will rehash all the same arguements

gigino · 05-03-2011 02:14PM

danbohan wrote: »

of course nobody wants anybody to lose their job but the fact of the matter remains that an overpaid ,overstaffed, inefficient public service is an integral part of Irelands problems , many of those jobs should never have existed in the first place .

+1. Spending on our public service doubled between 1999 and 2009. If a tighter reign had been kept on government expenditure - not just public sector but social welfare, pensions etc too - and if those whose job ( politicians, regulator, central bank etc ) was to control and regulate the economy ( banks, construction sector etc ) done their job properly, the country would not be in the state its in, with the IMF here etc.

sollar wrote: »

The croke park agreement will prob be let run until 2014.

I would say it ( pay cuts to bring public sector pay more in to line with other developed countries ) will happen long before then, as the IMF / EU will require our huge budget defecit to be decreased. Still, everyones entitled to their opinion. I bet a tenner with someone recently it will happen before years end. If I get paid less, at least I win a tenner.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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