Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

NWPat · 28-02-2011 06:13PM

gigino wrote: »

40 years ; not always true. Gardai for example, can retire on full pension after only 30 years service. Judges are even less. And do not forget the lucrative lump sum "gratuity", of eighteen months pay tax free.

Lets worry about the cost of public service pensions in the noughties, tens, twenties, thirties etc before worrying about paying the pensions of people starting in the public service now, most of whom will not retire for another 30 or 40 years.
The fact that "For new entrants to the Civil Service from now on the pension will be based on average earnings over their career, rather than their final salary." shows the government acknowledges there is a problem with the cost of present public service pensions.

Gardai are not a Civil Servants

NWPat · 28-02-2011 06:26PM

fliball123 wrote: »

So everyone needs to pay because you guys decided ah sure we will be grand lets buy a fcuk load of properties ... will you go and ask my ar$e the majority of people here debating the fact that the ps wage needs to be cut again...Sorry guys yes you had cuts but not enough when compared to tax take...and for a previous poster saying is this still going on ..yes it is ...Imagine 1.5 odd million people in the private sector wanting the gov to make some savings in what its spending in order to not to be taxed as much ....

As Jimmy Greaves used to say its a funny old game...gut the simple equation no matter who took what cuts...who fcuked up where ala fas, banks , regulators, gov etc...The simple brass tax is guys and it boils down to this..As I say I would like to see ps wage slashed but I can understand the ps standing thier ground as that is all I am doing..As the simple equation is as follows

Less expenditure (cuts) = less take imposed tax..

Every Economic commentator will tell you there is a direct collelation in this

But lets look at other maths

300k vs 1.5m
ps vs the private sector

who got over half the votes in this election ...FG why because the majority of the people would like to see ps wages cut and saving made instead of more taxes...

So it boils down to a your not touching my money fight..but hey it will be interesting to see how this pans out

You are looking sillier by the minute. How does 36% equate to more than half? FG have stated over and over that they will keep to the CP agreement and Labour will ensure this happens.

fliball123 · 28-02-2011 06:59PM

NWPat wrote: »

You are looking sillier by the minute. How does 36% equate to more than half? FG have stated over and over that they will keep to the CP agreement and Labour will ensure this happens.

was it 36% I seen somewhere it was closer to 50% of actual votes none of this 2nd pref sh1t.

It doesnt matter what party are in anyway NWPat as I say FG are saying this to pander slightly to the ps but unfortunately and its a fact that the IMF will cut in Sept ... watch this space

gigino · 28-02-2011 09:23PM

NWPat wrote: »

Gardai are not a Civil Servants

I never said they were I wrote "Gardai for example, can retire on full pension after only 30 years service"

If you ask any auctioneer who sells property in Spain or Portugal, he / she will tell you the villas around golf courses there are full of Gardai over the last number of years who retired aged 50 or so, and who spent the tax free " gratuity " of 18 months finishing salary on their overseas holiday property. Well for some, to spend 3 or 6 or 9 months there. If / when you or I had a 100,000 or 130,000 tax free windfall we'd probably do the same....except I have to wait until I have 40 years done.:(

MagicSean · 28-02-2011 10:17PM

gigino wrote: »

I never said they were I wrote "Gardai for example, can retire on full pension after only 30 years service"

If you ask any auctioneer who sells property in Spain or Portugal, he / she will tell you the villas around golf courses there are full of Gardai over the last number of years who retired aged 50 or so, and who spent the tax free " gratuity " of 18 months finishing salary on their overseas holiday property. Well for some, to spend 3 or 6 or 9 months there. If / when you or I had a 100,000 or 130,000 tax free windfall we'd probably do the same....except I have to wait until I have 40 years done.:(

Should have become a Garda so.

noodler · 28-02-2011 10:34PM

k_mac wrote: »

Should have become a Garda so.

Thats not the attitude to deal with waste, inefficiency and over-inflated pay scales/pensions in the Public Sector.

ardmacha · 28-02-2011 11:07PM

Gardai, Judges etc have different pension arrangements than other PS employees. Discussion of Garda pensions makes no real contribution to the overall discussion.

The_Thing · 28-02-2011 11:24PM

gigino wrote: »

....except I have to wait until I have 40 years done.:(

Are you and your alter-egos planning to continue posting baseless and begrudging bull**** for 40 years? I can only imagine the size of the boards.ie MySQL database at the end of your "career"

The_Thing · 28-02-2011 11:27PM

fliball123 wrote: »

... watch this space

The one between your ears?

gigino · 28-02-2011 11:32PM

ardmacha wrote: »

Gardai, Judges etc have different pension arrangements than other PS employees. Discussion of Garda pensions makes no real contribution to the overall discussion.

They are part of the public service, which is costing the country a fortune...still despite the cuts about double what it did 10 years ago.
Course its part of the overall discussion !

MagicSean · 28-02-2011 11:41PM

gigino wrote: »

They are part of the public service, which is costing the country a fortune...still despite the cuts about double what it did 10 years ago.
Course its part of the overall discussion !

Current serving members of the Gardaí make contributions which cover most if not all of their payments. 16% (including prsi) contribution on their basic salary with any allowances and overtime payments contributing at a higher rate.

gigino · 01-03-2011 12:03AM

k_mac wrote: »

Current serving members of the Gardaí make contributions which cover most if not all of their payments.

No it dioes not. This was covered before in detail. Experts in the field of pensions have calculated the average Garda's retiring pension pot is worth 1,200,000.00 ! If you add the average industrial workers total gross earnings / wages over this same working lifetime it would fall well short of the average Gardai pension pot ! Go to the villas and golf courses of places like Portugal and ask the 49 and 50 year old retired Gardai who have got the tax free windfall + pension, despite having paid much much less in pension contributions since 1980 / 1981 when they started work.

orangebud · 01-03-2011 12:05AM

divide and conquer

420

gigino · 01-03-2011 12:25AM

orangebud wrote: »

divide

Actually I wish there was less of a division between the pay and pensions in the public sector and the pay + pensions elsewhere. Ireland is a small place + everyone knows someone else. It creates a lot of division for many people in todays society for example, to see 49 year olds who were public servants ( Gardai ) now living the lifestyle of retired millionaires. Its not sustainable and can be quite embarassing.

20Cent · 01-03-2011 12:44AM

A unionised public employee, a private sector worker, and a Banker are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The Banker reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the private sector worker and says, 'Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie."

fliball123 · 01-03-2011 10:38AM

The_Thing wrote: »

The one between your ears?

Typical sh1t from a ps worker who knows their cash is going to be hit...No the space in your wallet when you get cut ye sap

fliball123 · 01-03-2011 10:40AM

20Cent wrote: »

A unionised public employee, a private sector worker, and a Banker are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The Banker reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the private sector worker and says, 'Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie."

Put it in full perspective..The private sector non banking employee (about 90-95%) of the workers...Bring the dozen cookies ...The rest seems fine except I reckon its about 6 cookies each..

gigino · 01-03-2011 03:55PM

Too true. The union guy has been the social partner of the guy giving out the cookies, and has ensured his public sector members and retired members get the most. Like it or not, I think the general mood in the country is that its time the cookies and the work load and the lack of job security and the pension perks were allocated or spread a bit more fairly for the sake of the whole economy / country. There is widespread anger at some retired public servants getting pensions of over 120,000, and big lump sum "gratuities" too, given the state the country is in, with the IMF here etc.

ardmacha · 01-03-2011 04:01PM

Put it in full perspective..The private sector non banking employee (about 90-95%) of the workers

Put it in full perspective. The public non Garda employee (over 95%) of the public service.....

fliball123 · 01-03-2011 04:17PM

ardmacha wrote: »

Put it in full perspective. The public non Garda employee (over 95%) of the public service.....

I never said anything about guards..arent the majority of the banks state owned now???

NWPat · 01-03-2011 07:03PM

fliball123 wrote: »

was it 36% I seen somewhere it was closer to 50% of actual votes none of this 2nd pref sh1t.

It doesnt matter what party are in anyway NWPat as I say FG are saying this to pander slightly to the ps but unfortunately and its a fact that the IMF will cut in Sept ... watch this space

It is clearly time for me to withdraw from this thread. But before I go I must point out: " I seen it somewhere" is not a coherent argument and the figure for 1st preference votes for FG stands at 36.1%. For your benefit only, this is not more than half. "its a fact that the IMF will cut in Sept" is not a fact, its your opinion which is based on nothing at all as far as I can tell.

noodler · 01-03-2011 07:42PM

NWPat wrote: »

It is clearly time for me to withdraw from this thread. But before I go I must point out: " I seen it somewhere" is not a coherent argument and the figure for 1st preference votes for FG stands at 36.1%. For your benefit only, this is not more than half. "its a fact that the IMF will cut in Sept" is not a fact, its your opinion which is based on nothing at all as far as I can tell.

You really should read the Memorandum of Understanding and the various deadlines imposed on the Irish State as a result of the EU/IMF deal.

martian1980 · 01-03-2011 08:00PM

noodler wrote: »

You really should read the Memorandum of Understanding and the various deadlines imposed on the Irish State as a result of the EU/IMF deal.

well go on then, show us them

noodler · 01-03-2011 08:09PM

martian1980 wrote: »

well go on then, show us them

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/EUIMFmemo.pdf

martian1980 · 01-03-2011 08:22PM

noodler wrote: »

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/EUIMFmemo.pdf

so which bits point to the cuts that we will be facing in september?

gigino · 01-03-2011 10:05PM

martian1980 wrote: »

so which bits point to the cuts that we will be facing in september?

lots of different bits
e.g.on page 13, section 3, part 1, second paragraph.

Pity the government is going to have to wait until September though. The country is in limbo...like a rabbit caught in headlights. 1000 people are emigrating per week. Business for many small enterprises is frozen. Many self employed people find that business has dried up and they are not entitled to the dole. The country is borrowing 1,500,000,000.00 per MONTH just to keep our public service and social welfare recipients amongst the best paid in the world. Its morally very incorrect. Its prolonging the recession.

noodler · 02-03-2011 12:00AM

martian1980 wrote: »

so which bits point to the cuts that we will be facing in september?

Jesus Christ, I gave you the link you - think you can search the document yourself?

gigino wrote: »

lots of different bits
e.g.on page 13, section 3, part 1, second paragraph.

Pity the government is going to have to wait until September though. The country is in limbo...like a rabbit caught in headlights. 1000 people are emigrating per week. Business for many small enterprises is frozen. Many self employed people find that business has dried up and they are not entitled to the dole. The country is borrowing 1,500,000,000.00 per MONTH just to keep our public service and social welfare recipients amongst the best paid in the world. Its morally very incorrect. Its prolonging the recession.

No worries, you got someone to do it for you.

martian1980 · 02-03-2011 12:18AM

gigino wrote: »

lots of different bits
e.g.on page 13, section 3, part 1, second paragraph.

Pity the government is going to have to wait until September though. The country is in limbo...like a rabbit caught in headlights. 1000 people are emigrating per week. Business for many small enterprises is frozen. Many self employed people find that business has dried up and they are not entitled to the dole. The country is borrowing 1,500,000,000.00 per MONTH just to keep our public service and social welfare recipients amongst the best paid in the world. Its morally very incorrect. Its prolonging the recession.

Even in your little heart of hearts, you must know that they're not going to cut pay again until they've given voluntary redundancies a go and offered some more early retirements. You can jump up and down and give out all you want, but you must know that the new government isn't going to go for the paycut option. Can you imagine our labour ministers standing in a line behind inda while he announces that one?

They'll look at the pluses and minuses of each option for reducing the paybill, and when the paycut option will lead to widespread industrial unrest, and a drastic deterioration of our banks' bad debts/mortgage arrears problems, they won't go for it if they think that a voluntary redundancy programme would save some money. Anyway, we don't know what kind of shortfall there will be in september, so I guess we'll just have to wait. More paycuts are by no means likely though.

I love some of the lines people come out with on this forum though - first it was:
"When the IMF come in they'll rip up the croke park agreement and slash wages!"

when that didnt happen, it was

"When Fine Gael get in, they'll sort those public sector wasters out!"

Now, with a joint FG/Labour government coming in, the CP agreement looks pretty secure, so now the line is, "roll on september - the IMF will get them then!!!"

We shall see in a few months, but it's not likely. Still though, it'll keep a few posters around here venting steam in the intervening period and give the rest of us a source of entertainment

martian1980 · 02-03-2011 12:20AM

noodler wrote: »

Jesus Christ, I gave you the link you - think you can search the document yourself?

No worries, you got someone to do it for you.

You were the one referencing it, so it's up to you to come up with some quotes if you want to include it in a debate.

gigino · 02-03-2011 12:36AM

martian1980 wrote: »

You were the one referencing it, so it's up to you to come up with some quotes if you want to include it in a debate.

You were the one who asked "which bits point to the cuts that we will be facing in september"...now that you know, you are in denial to what the IMF promise to do in September. You think the IMF cared in Latvia about what second rate politicians there thought before wages were reduced there ? When Eamonn and Enda go with the begging hand looking for more money in August and September, they will be told tut tut tut..why should ze nurse and ze civil servant in Athlone get so much more than ze policeman and ze public servant in Frankfurt ?

Pity the union heads are prolonging the recession and causing approx 35000 to emigrate before reality hits home.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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