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30 years ago today....

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Comments

  • #122
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Would it be fair to say then, that Gandhi's peaceful demonstrations brought the issue to the fore and WW11 and the labour government is what forced the issue. An armed struggle had little impact on the situation.



    As far as i can see consecutive British governments never ever took Ireland seriously and just took us as an irrelevant country who should do as were told,on the other hand they took india very serious.


  • #123
    mickrock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    Unfortunately, I don't think the UK will ever let us join them again.


  • #124
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    mickrock wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I don't think the UK will ever let us join them again.


    Think you have the wrong thread.


  • #125
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,267 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    major bill wrote: »
    alot of these men it could be argued fought more or less for the money not out of loyalty to the crown!!!

    ..as did the most of the non-commissioned men from England, Wales, Scotland and anywhere else they could draw them from.

    The officers were a different bunch altogether though.


  • #126
    Badgermonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Badgermonkey


    I was very young at the time and living close to the residence of the british military attache in a relatively normal housing estate in south Dublin.

    There were 2 special branch guys in a car and a uniformed garda stationed beside his semi detatched house 24/7.

    The entrance to the estate was barricaded by Gardai to keep republicans some distance away and the anger subsided after a short spell of protest.

    Oddly enough, I think the stance Sands took was of benefit to both his and Thatchers reputation, though the efficacy of the hunger strikes is open to debate.


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  • #127
    mountain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,069 ✭✭✭mountain


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »


    Bobby Sands was elected as an MP while on hunger strike, in a resounding endorsement for political status and what he stood for. Do any of our older posters remember the hunger strikes?

    The Undertones wore black armbands when performing on Top of the Pops.

    Daunt square in cork was taken over by anti english, pro hunger striker banners and protests every day.


  • #128
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    mountain wrote: »
    The Undertones wore black armbands when performing on Top of the Pops.

    Daunt square in cork was taken over by anti english, pro hunger striker banners and protests every day.



  • #129
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Yisroel Handsome Preschooler wrote: »
    Actually if memory serves me correct.. Those men wanted to continue the hunger strikes, but it was their families who were under pressure from both the IRA army council and the British government, plus Father Faul the catholic priest who eventually wanted the men to come off the strikes.

    In fact, Father Faul was largely responsible for bringing the strikes to an end - laying good old catholic guilt on the shoulders of the men's families.

    The Army Council wanted them to continue, that was my recollection from 10 men Dead.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #130
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    RIP Bobby sands. Thanks for the political status for loyalists. Oh and N.I still in the UK too. :)


  • #131
    murf313
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I know Bobby Sand's phone number.
    808080 (read as 8 nothing 8 nothing 8 nothing)

    Better?
    and from a brit as well.......:rolleyes:

    You have no right to insult Irish patriots.


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  • #132
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    K-9 wrote: »
    The Army Council wanted them to continue, that was my recollection from 10 men Dead.

    I didn't say anything different.

    Of course the army council wanted them to continue.

    The families were under pressure from all sides, the army council, the Brits and the Catholic church.

    Just off topic a little, have you seen the movie - The Hunger?.



  • #133
    murf313
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    RIP Bobby sands. Thanks for the political status for loyalists. Oh and N.I still in the UK too. :)
    Thats right keith, you should thank him. None of your shower would have had the balls to do what he did....


  • #134
    St.Spodo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    RIP Bobby sands. Thanks for the political status for loyalists. Oh and N.I still in the UK too. :)

    It's sad how you Northern Irish are still so obsessed with this ****e. Move on.


  • #135
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    murf313 wrote: »
    Thats right keith, you should thank him. None of your shower would have had the balls to do what he did....
    This thread should be moved to politics for a more netural discussion on it as its not fair on here. Although i will say that is the best thing Bobby sands done. But really, was it worth it?


  • #136
    Sergeant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭Sergeant


    As I've decided to stop commenting on anything relating to America, Politics or the Middle East on Boards, I'll leave the "debate" to others. From an artistic point of view he was a terrible poet. Hackneyed and contrived.


  • #137
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    murf313 wrote: »
    and from a brit as well.......:rolleyes:

    You have no right to insult Irish patriots.

    Isn't that what we do on after hours? There are plenty of sick things posted about thatcher, the queen etc. So why not a dead terrorist?


  • #138
    murf313
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Isn't that what we do on after hours? There are plenty of sick things posted about thatcher, the queen etc. So why not a dead terrorist?
    Because thatcher or the queen didnt make the ultimate sacrifice to try rid our land of the 800year occupier.

    It may be AH but have a bit of respect for the dead. You may not agree with his views but it doesnt give you the right to insult him.


  • #139
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    danbohan wrote: »
    sorry fred , i got mixed up it was Brittaney that occupied our country and carried out the massacres not the British , cromwell was a French prince not British . the parachute regiment that murdered people on bloody sunday were actually the French foreign legion in disguise , i should have realized that the British have been nothing but peace loving hippies interested in nothing but world peace , you can deny history fred unfortunately you cannot re write it
    no Dan, it was British governments and aristocrats that exploited the Irish, not the British people.

    Now, if it was the British as you put it, can you explain the green book to me.


  • #140
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    We all recognise this generally as people dealing with things in their own mind, but somewhere, kids are reading it and thinking it is noble and grand to stick it to the Brits.

    All this hero worship of people like Sands gives kids the message that it is ok to continue and kill a few PSNI officers.

    What it does is show thats its "noble and grand" to resist oppression. If that bothers you, well.....


  • #141
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    murf313 wrote: »
    Because thatcher or the queen didnt make the ultimate sacrifice to try rid our land of the 800year occupier.

    It may be AH but have a bit of respect for the dead. You may not agree with his views but it doesnt give you the right to insult him.

    Bobby Sands died to get special status restored for republican prisoners. It was not a crusade for the rights of anyone other than those in prison.


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  • #142
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »
    What it does is show thats its "noble and grand" to resist oppression. If that bothers you, well.....

    But that wasn't why he went on hunger strike.


  • #143
    Chris P. Bacon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭Chris P. Bacon


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCch_W2Ro38


  • #144
    murf313
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Bobby Sands died to get special status restored for republican prisoners. It was not a crusade for the rights of anyone other than those in prison.
    and why was he in prison...???


  • #145
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Do you know what I really love about the Bobby Sands story, it really does bring out the hypocrisy of so many Irish people. How often do we hear people condemn the IRA by contrasting their actions with the protests of Mohandas Gandhi. Then when the subject of Bobby Sands comes up they mock and deride his actions as futile and pointless, completely ignoring the fact that the aforementioned Gandhi also resorted to going on hunger strike as a gesture of his rejection of British rule in India.

    They are either ignorant of history or else just look for any stick to beat Irish Republicans with, whether or not this stick causes their arguments to become ludicrously inconsistent.


  • #146
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    This thread should be moved to politics for a more netural discussion on it as its not fair on here. Although i will say that is the best thing Bobby sands done. But really, was it worth it?
    I think its fine here Keith.


  • #147
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Gandhi never took up arms. Big diff.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #148
    Badgermonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Badgermonkey


    murf313 wrote: »

    It may be AH but have a bit of respect for the dead. You may not agree with his views but it doesnt give you the right to insult him.

    Seriously, it's AH.

    Debate, controversy, petty squabbling, magnanimity, it's all here and it's what makes it interesting.

    Best not be precious.


  • #149
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Bobby Sands was elected as an MP while on hunger strike, in a resounding endorsement for political status and what he stood for. Do any of our older posters remember the hunger strikes?
    I remember seeing lots of posters of Margaret Thatcher with "Wanted for Murder" plastered on them. Despite being rather republican minded at that time I thought that was a bit daft.


  • #150
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Gandhi never took up arms. Big diff.

    I don't think there is a difference, in fact I think it is completely irrelevant that both men took different paths to arrive at the same conclusion. Both men decided their ends would be best served by going on hunger strike as a form of peaceful protest against British rule, that is all that matters when discussing the rights and wrongs of hunger striking.

    If people want to criticise Sands' past in the IRA then that is fine, but in my mind it is ridiculous for them to then also condemn his gesture of peaceful protest whilst praising another man who did the same.


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  • #151
    gargleblaster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭gargleblaster


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Gandhi never took up arms. Big diff.

    mandela did. i wonder if we'll see people calling him a 'dead terrorist' once he passes on.

    some of the responses on this thread are just sickening.


This discussion has been closed.
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