30 years ago today....

Wolfe Tone

Statement On Behalf Of The Republican POWs In The H-blocks, Long Kesh

We, the Republican POWs in the H-blocks of Long Kesh, and our comrades in Armagh Prison, are entitled to and hereby demand political status, and we reject today, as we have consistently rejected every day since September 14th 1976, when the Blanket protest began, the British government's attempted criminalisation of ourselves and our struggle.

Five years ago today' the British government declared that anyone arrested and convicted after March 1 st 1976, was to be treated as a criminal and no longer as a political prisoner.

Five years later, we are still able to declare that the criminalisation policy, which we have resisted and suffered, has failed.

If a British government experienced such a long and persistent resistance to a domestic policy in England, then that policy would almost certainly be changed.

But not so in Ireland, were its traditional racist attitude blinds its judgement to reason and persuasion.

Only the loud voice of the Irish people and world opinion can bring them to there senses, and only a hunger strike, were lives are laid down as proof of our political convictions, can rally such opinion and present the British with the problem that, far from criminalising the cause of Ireland, their intransigence is actually bringing attention to that cause.

We have asserted that we are political prisoners and everything about our country, our arrests, interrogations, trials and prison conditions show that we are politically motivated and not motivated by selfish reasons or for selfish ends.

As a further demonstration of our selflessness and the justness of our cause, a number of our comrades, beginning today with Bobby Sands, will hunger strike to the death unless the British government abandons its criminalisation policy and meets our demand for political status.

Bobby Sands, poet and soldier, serving 14 years for possession of a firearm, started his hunger strike 30 years ago today . Over the course of the next few weeks and months 9 other equally brave and dedicated men joined him, and subsequently died:


Francis Hughes (15th March 1981), survived for 59 days

Raymond McCreesh (22nd March 1981), survived for 61 days

Patsy O'Hara (22nd March 1981), survived for 61 days

Joe McDonnell (8th May 1981), survived for 61 days

Kieran Doherty (22nd May), survived for 73 days

Kevin Lynch (23rd May), survived for 71 days

Martin Hurson (28th May), survived for 46 days

Thomas McElwee (8th June), survived for 62 days

Michael Devine (22nd June), survived for 60 days

They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken. - vol Bobby Sands

Bobby Sands was elected as an MP while on hunger strike, in a resounding endorsement for political status and what he stood for. Do any of our older posters remember the hunger strikes?

Jimmy the Wheel

That made me hungry, reading that.

HarryPotter41

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

That made me hungry, reading that.

Was it cruel that I laughed at your message??

Sunnyisland

Remember that time very well and there was an awful cloud of doom hanging over the country a lot worse than the one today.

seamus

He was convicted for possessing a firearm.

So tell me again why he deserved not be treated like a common scumbag criminal?

Yakult

So, did they win?!! :eek:

PeteEd

Do you want a sausage supper Bobby Sands

AnonoBoy

Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play.

Lawrence1895

The memory of Bobby Sands and his comrades should never been forgotten.

But on the other hand, their legacy should never be an excuse for revenge and retribution.

Pherekydes

My parents told me I was named after a hunger striker.

Terence MacSwiney

Born 28 March 1879
Died 25 October 1920 (aged 41)

After 74 days on hunger strike. 74 ****ing days? Jesus, I can't go without rubbish for lent.

Persiancowboy

That reminds me of some popular graffitti at the time:

1. "We'll never forget you.........Michael Sands"

2. "Bobby Sands couldn't give ****"

gigino

seamus wrote: »

He was convicted for possessing a firearm.

So tell me again why he deserved not be treated like a common scumbag criminal?

Ordinary scumbag criminals were better, they did not belong to terrorist organisations which went around bombing women and children + sniping people in the back while retired.

Seaneh

seamus wrote: »

He was convicted for possessing a firearm.

So tell me again why he deserved not be treated like a common scumbag criminal?

Does the same apply to Nelson Mandella? Or other people in the world who fought back against oppression and denial of human rights when peaceful protests were met with violence?

Wolfe Tone

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

That made me hungry, reading that.

I find it rather sad that you didnt even read what I wrote and fired that in here as quick as possible to get the first post and prime positioning for thanks whoring, well played son.

Notorious97

“I’ll wear no convicts uniform nor meekly serve my time that Britain might brand Irelands fight 800 years of crime.."- Bobby Sands RIP

Jimmy the Wheel

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I find it rather sad that you didnt even read what I wrote and fired that in here as quick as possible to get the first post and prime positioning for thanks whoring, well played son.

That's AH for ya.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Do any of our older posters remember the hunger strikes?

Yes, I remember them very well. Is there anything you'd like me to recount for the forum?.

Wolfe Tone

Pherekydes wrote: »

My parents told me I was named after a hunger striker.

Terence MacSwiney

Born 28 March 1879
Died 25 October 1920 (aged 41)

After 74 days on hunger strike. 74 ****ing days? Jesus, I can't go without rubbish for lent.

He was the Mayor of Cork I believe.

Sunnyisland

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

That's AH for ya.

That's ignorance for ya

Fittle

In fairness WT, AH is possibly the worst place you could have started this thread. I'd ask the mods to move it if I was you.

I remember the hunger strikers well - and the previous poster was right when he said that there was a definite cloud of doom in during that period. That movie 'Some mother's son' had me in tears - no matter what they'd done, they were all some mothers sons.

Sunnyisland

Hunger strikes have deep roots in Irish society and in the Irish psyche. Fasting in order to bring attention to an injustice which one felt under his lord, and thus embarrass him into a solution, was a common feature of society in Early Irish society and this tactic was fully incorporated into the Brehon legal system. The tradition is ultimately most likely part of the still older Indo-European tradition of which the Irish were part.[8]
The tactic was used by Irish republicans from 1917 and, subsequently, during the Anglo-Irish War, in the 1920s. Early use of hunger strikes by republicans had been countered by the British with force-feeding, which culminated in 1917 in the death of Thomas Ashe in Mountjoy Prison.
In October 1920, the Lord Mayor of Cork, Terence MacSwiney, died on hunger strike in Brixton prison. Two other Cork IRA men, Joe Murphy and Michael Fitzgerald, also died on hunger strike in this protest along with Monaghan native, Conor McElvaney who lasted 79 days before death. The Guinness Book of Records lists the world record in hunger strike (without forced feeding) as 94 days, which was set from August 11 to November 12, 1920 by John and Peter Crowley, Thomas Donovan, Michael Burke, Michael O'Reilly, Christopher Upton, John Power, Joseph Kenny and Seán Hennessy at the prison of Cork. Arthur Griffith called off the strikes after the deaths of MacSwiney, Murphy and Fitzgerald.
After the end of the Irish Civil War in October 1923, up to 8000 IRA prisoners went on hunger strike to protest their continued detention by the Irish Free State (a total of over 12,000 republicans had been interned by May 1923). Two men, Denny Barry and Andrew O'Sullivan, died on the strike. The strike, however, was called off before any more deaths occurred. The Free State subsequently released the women republican prisoners. Most of the male Republicans were not released until the following year.
Under the de Valera Fianna Fáil government three hunger strikers died in the Republic of Ireland in the 1940s. They were Sean McCaughey, Tony d'Arcy and Sean (Jack) McNeela. Hundreds of others carried out shorter hunger strikes during the de Valera years with no sympathy from the Government.
The tactic was revived by the Provisional IRA in the early 1970s, when several republicans such as Sean MacStiofain successfully used hunger strikes to get themselves released from custody without charge in the Republic of Ireland. Michael Gaughan died after being force-fed in a British prison in 1974. Frank Stagg, an IRA member being held in a British jail, died after a 62-day hunger strike in 1976 which he began as a campaign to be repatriated to Ireland.This all happened before the 1981 hunger strikes, From wikipedia.

Wolfe Tone

Yisroel Handsome Preschooler wrote: »

Yes, I remember them very well. Is there anything you'd like me to recount for the forum?.

I think your general memories, and the attitudes displayed by those around you towards them at the time would be cool. Anything that comes to mind really.

Wolfe Tone

Fittle wrote: »

In fairness WT, AH is possibly the worst place you could have started this thread. I'd ask the mods to move it if I was you.

I remember the hunger strikers well - and the previous poster was right when he said that there was a definite cloud of doom in during that period. That movie 'Some mother's son' had me in tears - no matter what they'd done, they were all some mothers sons.

I was well aware of the reaction it would get from some quarters, but it is the most widely read forum, much more people will read it here than elsewhere on the site.

Jimmy the Wheel

realies wrote: »

That's ignorance for ya

I reserve the right to joke if and when I want, especially in AH, and if that upsets the Holy Grail of republicanism hero-worship, so be it.

Buceph

realies wrote: »

The Guinness Book of Records lists the world record in hunger strike (without forced feeding) as 94 days, which was set from August 11 to November 12, 1920 by John and Peter Crowley, Thomas Donovan, Michael Burke, Michael O'Reilly, Christopher Upton, John Power, Joseph Kenny and Seán Hennessy at the prison of Cork.

One of them is my Great-Granddad. We have the Guinness Book of Records that features him, press clippings from international newspapers (including the NY Times) and his pocket book that has messages from all the other prisoners, including poetry and well-wishes.

My big claim to fame.

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

He was convicted for possessing a firearm.

So tell me again why he deserved not be treated like a common scumbag criminal?

Pretty much every single nation you can name was founded and defended by people convicted of possessing firearms. The difference between scumbag and hero is whether they won or not. Michael collins, DeValera and all the rest were common scumbag crims by that definition. Idiotic comparison TBH.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

He was the Mayor of Cork I believe.

He was. Interesting story his. Many English people supported and admired the man.

Fittle wrote: »

no matter what they'd done, they were all some mothers sons.

Like all the folks blown up or shot or "disappeared" on all sides. People just tend to cry more about the mothers and sons on their side.

mickrock

Fittle wrote: »

That movie 'Some mother's son' had me in tears - no matter what they'd done, they were all some mothers sons.

Yeah, Frank Spencer cracks me up as well!

seamus

Seaneh wrote: »

Does the same apply to Nelson Mandella? Or other people in the world who fought back against oppression and denial of human rights when peaceful protests were met with violence?

Well that depends. I asked a legitimate question - why did he deserve special treatment? He was convicted for a simple crime. Nothing contrived there, though the sentence seems very harsh. If they were convicted for being members of the IRA, you might have something.

You see, I've taken to questioning Irish history rather than swallowing hook, line & sinker the anti-british republican propaganda that was (and probably still is) pushed as "history" in Irish schools.

We were given the impression that these men were jailed for nothing and were innocent. Well...they weren't.

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

You see, I've taken to questioning Irish history rather than swallowing hook, line & sinker the anti-british republican propaganda that was (and probably still is) pushed as "history" in Irish schools.

I'm with you 100% on that score.

Wolfe Tone

You see, I've taken to questioning Irish history rather than swallowing hook, line & sinker the anti-british republican propaganda that was (and probably still is) pushed as "history" in Irish schools.

No, its very balanced these days, I studied the north for my LC, was very airbrushed, focused heavily on SDLP, left out huge swathes of what happened.

IITYWYBMAD

seamus wrote: »

Well that depends. I asked a legitimate question - why did he deserve special treatment? He was convicted for a simple crime. Nothing contrived there, though the sentence seems very harsh. If they were convicted for being members of the IRA, you might have something.

You see, I've taken to questioning Irish history rather than swallowing hook, line & sinker the anti-british republican propaganda that was (and probably still is) pushed as "history" in Irish schools.

We were given the impression that these men were jailed for nothing and were innocent. Well...they weren't.

I suppose when you grow up in an atmosphere where gerrymandering, internment and prejudice is your daily diet it's not surprising that you rebel against "the man". The comparison with Mandela is a very valid one, and only one of many.

Notorious97

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

No, its very balanced these days, I studied the north for my LC, was very airbrushed, focused heavily on SDLP, left out huge swathes of what happened.

True, my history for my LC didn’t glorify the troubles from a republican point of view, i read alot of history books outside of what was on the schools list, helped me learn alot more about Ireland than i thought i knew, and im still learning loads these days from new books i read

Fair play on the thread Wolfe Tone, as the original Wolfe Tone said himself back in the day......

“Many suffer so that some day all Irish people may know justice and peace.." Theobald Wolfe Tone

syklops

Pherekydes wrote: »

My parents told me I was named after a hunger striker.

Terence MacSwiney

Born 28 March 1879
Died 25 October 1920 (aged 41)

After 74 days on hunger strike. 74 ****ing days? Jesus, I can't go without rubbish for lent.

I'm related to him! :cool:

Rabidlamb

Martin Hurson (28th May), survived for 46 days

This chap didn't stock up before he started.
Poor effort all round.

Wolfe Tone

OSI wrote: »

Bull****. I did my Leaving 5 years ago and the content was very one sided in favour of making certain people look like persecuted heroes.

I did mine last year, did the specific topic on the north, with the official book.

Ledger

It was terrible injustice from the British Govt that forced Bobby Sands to take arms.

It was not just as simple as possesion, they were just trying to get republicans on any kind of charge they could so they could lock them up and try to silence them.


There was a piece of graffiti on a wall in waterford city a while ago that always caught my eye. It's gone now but here's how it looked:

Let
Her
Bobby Sands RIP

RIP Bobby Sands

Jimmy the Wheel

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I did mine last year, did the specific topic on the north, with the official book.

Read a book called 10 Men Dead, if you haven't already.

It'll outline how the IRA were a depleted force at the end of the 70's, and how the Hunger Strikes swelled IRA membership, allowing the war to continue as it did until the 90's.

So, a bit of a poisoned legacy, depending how you choose to look at it.

And I know how things were at the time, re; the 'Brits', having grown up in Dundalk and Crossmaglen during the seventies and eighties, but that doesn't mean I'll support a legacy of violence.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think your general memories, and the attitudes displayed by those around you towards them at the time would be cool. Anything that comes to mind really.

Ok, well I was only in my teens at the time. However growing up in Ballymun during the 70's and 80's mean't you weren't too far away from staunch republicans.

During the years Ballymun had a lot of northern Irish refugee's.. That might come as a surprise to a lot of people here.. Originally these people were 'housed' in Gormanstown and The Curragh army camps before being re-homed in the likes of Ballymun and similar.

They settled in well and became part and parcel of the community, so most of us identified somewhat with the troubles in the north of Ireland at the time.

I remember 'hanging around' with one guy whose ankle was pinned after being shattered by a British plastic baton round, and one of the older men whose voice box was severely damaged after a hiding in (I think) Castlereagh interrogation centre.

So anyway, thats just setting the scene in Ballymun at the time..

I might add that there was also a lot of republican rallies in the area, and recruitment to Na Fianna Éireann was nearly a right of passage on some of the blocks. But I think I was just that little bit too young, or maybe they didn't like ginger kids

So you can imagine when the hunger strikes started, I'll skip straight to the 1981 hunger strikes and Bobby Sands, there was massive support. With now daily rallies in the fields in Balcurris and Coultry Roads with speakers from SF, convicted IRA men and women and news from the north.

I think everyone read An Phoblacht to get updates, and to read the back page 'war news' - there was some comic strip as well if I remember correctly.

So, when Sands died.. I remember it like a member of the family dying. There was mass mourning from all the blocks (blocks of flats).. Women screaming, men, women and children marching in protest and everyone flying black flags from their window's (no one drove car's!!, or rather few did) and people wore black arm bands.

Most of the older lads and men from the blocks went to the protests/riots at the British embassey and parnell Sq - I think there was a gathering at #44 which was broken up by AGS and army - but that may not be accurate.

Ok, sorry for the really long post.. At the end of it all, there was graffiti everywhere - 'Ten Dead but not forgotten' and usually the names of the ten dead hunger strikers (I can still recall them, the order they died and their faces like it was only yesterday).

At the time the dead were considered hero's, there was even more support for the armed struggle and Thatcher was the devil himself.

Was that any use to you WT?.

orourkeda

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

That made me hungry, reading that.

So am I. A big pepperoni pizza would hit the spot.

orourkeda

History will teach us nothing.

Dj Stiggie

My mam was in primary school during the hunger strikes and her teacher was a very open supporter of Sands. Politics wasn't discussed in my ma's house so she didn't know about the strike.

A girl said to my ma in class, "Did you hear about Bobby Sands?"

My ma said, "Who's he? Is he from Leixlip Park?"

The teacher overheard this and dug her engagement ring into my ma's temple and knocked her out. She came around a while later with the teacher and he sister standing over her.

Such was the way of Catholic Ireland. However after years of distortion, I take the actual beating from the teacher with a pinch of salt.

Fratton Fred

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

No, its very balanced these days, I studied the north for my LC, was very airbrushed, focused heavily on SDLP, left out huge swathes of what happened.

really? So what's your opinion on the IRA army council ordered the strike to continue despite the hunger strikers getting more concessions than they expected.

I believe it was the last six that were sacrificed so "da cause" could get more publicity. There would probably have been more if it wasn't for the brave actions of the strikers families.

Sunnyisland

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

My mam was in primary school during the hunger strikes and her teacher was a very open supporter of Sands. Politics wasn't discussed in my ma's house so she didn't know about the strike.

A girl said to my ma in class, "Did you hear about Bobby Sands?"

My ma said, "Who's he? Is he from Leixlip Park?"

The teacher overheard this and dug her engagement ring into my ma's temple and knocked her out. She came around a while later with the teacher and he sister standing over her.

Such was the way of Catholic Ireland. However after years of distortion, I take the actual beating from the teacher with a pinch of salt.

I think that was the way of a crazy teacher than anything else.

Jimmy the Wheel

Fratton Fred wrote: »

really? So what's your opinion on the IRA army council ordered the strike to continue despite the hunger strikers getting more concessions than they expected.

I believe it was the last six that were sacrificed so "da cause" could get more publicity. There would probably have been more if it wasn't for the brave actions of the strikers families.

Freedom of information documents attesting to the same...

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/newal1.pdf

gigino

OSI wrote: »

Bull****. I did my Leaving 5 years ago and the content was very one sided in favour of making certain people look like persecuted heroes.

True, the history and propoganda pushed in many schools here is the republic was very one-sided. You would think the ten men were innocent and never belonged to a terrorist organisation which blew up innocent women and children. At least the hunger strikers had a choice to die or not. Many of their/ their organisations victims did not.

gigino

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

My mam was in primary school during the hunger strikes and her teacher was a very open supporter of Sands. Politics wasn't discussed in my ma's house so she didn't know about the strike.

A girl said to my ma in class, "Did you hear about Bobby Sands?"

My ma said, "Who's he? Is he from Leixlip Park?"

The teacher overheard this and dug her engagement ring into my ma's temple and knocked her out. She came around a while later with the teacher and he sister standing over her.

Such was the way of Catholic Ireland.

we all know of teachers like that. My English teacher in secondary school here in the Republic was like that too, and getting us to read things about "the lads" etc, who he had great sympathy for ( they were the IRA but he called them " the lads " ).

problemchimp

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

I reserve the right to joke if and when I want, especially in AH, and if that upsets the Holy Grail of republicanism hero-worship, so be it.

Jokes are usually funny, your effort was pretty shiit when it comes to jokes. A bit more effort if you wouldn't mind.

arybvtcw0eolkf

seamus wrote: »

He was convicted for possessing a firearm.

So tell me again why he deserved not be treated like a common scumbag criminal?

Btw, I'd expect more from you - aren't you a solicitor?.

Your right, Sands was convicted of possession of a firearm.. A revolver was found in a car which he shared with four others.. He was tired and convicted by a court presided over by just one British judge, no jury. And sentenced to 14 years in prison.

There was no evidence that he fired the revolver, ie no prints on the revolver or powder marks on his hands or clothing.

As a solicitor would you say thats a safe conviction - honestly now?.

And then tell us why he should be "treated like a common scumbag criminal".

Fratton Fred

problemchimp wrote: »

Jokes are usually funny, your effort was pretty shiit when it comes to jokes. A bit more effort if you wouldn't mind.

I know Bobby Sand's phone number.
808080 (read as 8 nothing 8 nothing 8 nothing)

Better?

problemchimp

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know Bobby Sand's phone number.
808080 (read as 8 nothing 8 nothing 8 nothing)

Better?

Lame, attention seeking, ................NEXT!

seamus

Yisroel Handsome Preschooler wrote: »

Btw, I'd expect more from you - aren't you a solicitor?.

No

And then tell us why he should be "treated like a common scumbag criminal".

As I say, it was a genuine question. Someone who's convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm is a scumbag, in my eyes. Hence I was asking why he should have been treated otherwise.

You've given reasonable evidence to me that he was likely a patsy. I'll need to dig some more.