Ivana Bacik. A Failed Political Entity?

crucamim · 27-02-2011 11:38PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Let me guess now, is this is going to be another Pro Sinn Fein thered?

I do not understand the logic behind that question. A person wishing to launch a pro-Sinn Fein thread would not attack her. Ms Bacik is the Labour Party politician who has been least hostile to the Catholic people of Northern Ireland.

Sponge Bob · 27-02-2011 11:43PM

RBB is a local loony lefty and Ivana is a blow in loony lefty who will hardly be seen south of the Grand Canal if elected....save in Montrose perhaps.

panda100 · 27-02-2011 11:46PM

Min wrote: »

Communists support the legalisation of abortion, it even encourages it in some cases.

Nothing wrong with encouraging legislation on abortion, its about time we stopped shipping our problem over to UK.

crucamim · 27-02-2011 11:47PM

Min wrote: »

"She also wants no schools associated with a religious body, doesn't matter if they are well run, the best in the country, they shouldn't be allowed according to our Ivana,"

She has certainly said things which could justify one suspecting that she does indeed have that attitude towards denominational schools. Nevertheless, I am not at all sure that is her true position. I suspect that she has been pretending to be anti-Catholic in order to appeal to the Labour Party of Dublin. I remember that, in the autumn of 1996, on the RTE programme, Questions and Answers, she defended the right of denominational schools to discriminate on grounds of religon when hiring teachers.

Dionysus · 27-02-2011 11:50PM

dvpower wrote: »

She could hardly be called a failed political entity. She won election to the Seanad in '07 and came very close to a Dáil seat this time around.

Is that not an oxymoron?

dvpower · 27-02-2011 11:56PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Is that not an oxymoron?

No. How?

She fought an election. She got enough votes. She was elected.

Baron_Kunkel · 27-02-2011 11:58PM

The Seanad is a parliamentary house for rejects.....so it is an oxymoron of sorts

dvpower · 28-02-2011 12:06AM

Baron_Kunkel wrote: »

The Seanad is a parliamentary house for rejects.....so it is an oxymoron of sorts

Ivana Bacik wasn't appointed to the Seanad after failing elsewhere. She won her seat in an election.
You may not like the Seanad, but this thread is about her as a 'failed political entity', and clearly winning a seat in the Oireachtas in an election would suggest that she isn't.

theg81der · 28-02-2011 12:08AM

trishasaffron wrote: »

I agree with OP. IB has almost all the credentials that would make me vote for her - female, youngish, articulate, radical with a bit of pragmatism........
But I can't vote for her.............she just seems to have coasted along into politics. If instead of being appointed to the Senate she had actually gone and got a job - set up a business - wrote a novel ....................something tangible and specific. But maybe she's being held to a higher standard cos she's a woman?

In any event if she wants a career as a TD she's got to go and do something different. No more Directorships or cushy jobs - take on something diffilcut without trading on her connections and then I'll vote for her.

What has our new taoiseach Enda Kenny ever done? Point me to where his book is or where he hasn`t used his connections?

I can`t help thinking this is a sexist thing we have scored of male politicians who`ve never done anything except politics.

eamo12 · 28-02-2011 12:08AM

annoyingbeast wrote: »

Another pro Sinn Fein thread?? all i have seen on Boards.ie over the weekend is Sinn Fein bashing. Same in the media

Well, they did murder a lot of innocent men, women and children and lets not forget that.......EVER.

invinciblePRSTV · 28-02-2011 12:15AM

Min wrote: »

I wouldn't call it the brains behind Labour's constitutional convention proposal, I posted on this forum in the Labour - abortion thread that Labour wanted a new constitution so they could remove things like the equal right to life of the mother and unborn.
It was later said on the radio on the Marian Finucane show that this is one reason why some want a new constitution - makes sense if Ivana was behind it, people will see through it for what it is worth and if that is all Ivana can offer us then no surprise she didn't get elected.

I don't really care for what Talk Radio has to say. Also constitutional reform encompasses more then just a single issue concern like abortion.

dvpower wrote: »

She could hardly be called a failed political entity. She won election to the Seanad in '07 and came very close to a Dáil seat this time around. Some better vote management would certainly have get her across the line.

"Won" election as a Trinity Senator? hardly worth a mention tbh. Such a prominent academic is guaranteed victory in the rotten borough of her own institution in the outdated Seanad electoral system. She has 3 failed attempts at Dail and European level where she has an electorate to appeal to. I'd wager Labour have plenty of other ambitious Cllrs in South Dublin who'll want a nomination in future.

dvpower · 28-02-2011 12:27AM

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

"Won" election as a Trinity Senator? hardly worth a mention tbh. Such a prominent academic is guaranteed victory in the rotten borough of her own institution in the outdated Seanad electoral system.

In trying to answer if she is a failed political entity, her election to the Seanad is hardly worth a mention? Really?

Let's judge her most recent attempt. She narrowly missed a seat by less than 200 votes, outperforming 3 incumbents. She wasn't successful for sure, but to say that she is a failed political entity is at odds with reality.

gizmo555 · 28-02-2011 12:42AM

dvpower wrote: »

Let's judge her most recent attempt. She narrowly missed a seat by less than 200 votes, outperforming 3 incumbents. She wasn't successful for sure, but to say that she is a failed political entity is at odds with reality.

She didn't get elected as her party leader's running mate in the election in which Labour got it's best ever result. If she couldn't get elected now, it's hard to see how she ever will. Put it this way - she's certainly not a successful political entity . . .

MonkeyDoo · 28-02-2011 01:27AM

I refused to vote Labour because they fielded her as a candidate. What were they thinking!

She's not a leftie just an advocate for the legal profession, 'undemocratically' elected to the senate by people who go to trinity and ...what about people who went to UL, DCU, and the IT's! Or people who never went to college.. They have no senate vote and she was silent on their rights! Are they not worthy of EQUALITY!

Bacik is a career student who never did a days work in her life.

Bacik would want to waste tax payer's money on a gender studies department for her feminist buddies to commission man bashing studies for the media and put loads of red tape on business. That would only lead to the law profession making money from frivolous gender law suits while jobs slip away to places like India and Eastern Europe.

She's a misguided man hating bigot from a tax payer funded ivory tower in trinity.

The electorate don't like been dictated to with 'social engineering' quota experiments.

Even Mary Hanifin and Boyd Barret did better than her!

evercloserunion · 28-02-2011 01:44AM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

I refused to vote Labour because they fielded her as a candidate. What were they thinking!

She's not a leftie just an advocate for the legal profession, 'undemocratically' elected to the senate by people who go to trinity and ...what about people who went to UL, DCU, and the IT's! Or people who never went to college.. They have no senate vote and she was silent on their rights! Are they not worthy of EQUALITY!

Bacik is a career student who never did a days work in her life.

Bacik would want to waste tax payer's money on a gender studies department for her feminist buddies to commission man bashing studies for the media and put loads of red tape on business. That would only lead to the law profession making money from frivolous gender law suits while jobs slip away to places like India and Eastern Europe.

She's a misguided man hating bigot from a tax payer funded ivory tower in trinity.

The electorate don't like been dicated to with 'social engineering' quota experiments.

Even Mary Hanifin and Boyd Barret did better than her!

Typical right-wing anti-intellectualism. Ivana has made some great contributions to highly important debates like those relating to crime and minority rights. She lectured me in criminal law and to be honest this whole man-hating feminazi thing is completely exaggerated.

In terms of getting elected, I don't see her as a particularly successful politician, but that's because she's not a career politician like the rest of them. Her political aspirations are secondary to her lecturing and academic work in TCD, and possibly her legal career (I don't know how much time she spends working as a barrister but she did act as junior counsel in the Zappone and Gilligan case). If she ever was elected to the Dáil, the country would be better off for it as we would have someone who had actually studied and who actually understands some of the important social issues facing us.

MonkeyDoo · 28-02-2011 02:06AM

evercloserunion wrote: »

Typical right-wing anti-intellectualism. Ivana has made some great contributions to highly important debates like those relating to crime and minority rights. She lectured me in criminal law and to be honest this whole man-hating feminazi thing is completely exaggerated.

In terms of getting elected, I don't see her as a particularly successful politician, but that's because she's not a career politician like the rest of them. Her political aspirations are secondary to her lecturing and academic work in TCD, and possibly her legal career (I don't know how much time she spends working as a barrister but she did act as junior counsel in the Zappone and Gilligan case). If she ever was elected to the Dáil, the country would be better off for it as we would have someone who had actually studied and who actually understands some of the important social issues facing us.

Bacik is not an intellectual, Trinity really could do alot better. Waterford Crystal probably donated Trinity alot of money and thats why she has the Professorship.

She couldn't argue her way out of a paper bag, loses most of her cases, a terrible barrister in practice, no wonder she spends most of her time hiding in Trinity.

She want's the collectively punish the male population, denying the electorate the best candidates with her quota ideas.

She reminds me of the NAZI's with her 'social engineering' ideology.

Some of the worst deeds were justified by 'intellectualism' I think the electorate are alot smarter than your giving credit.

Side Show Bob · 28-02-2011 02:11AM

dvpower wrote: »

No. How?

She fought an election. She got enough votes. She was elected.

Manvana is gone too with all the useless rejects, even too useless for the senator’s retirement home this time round, maybe Heshe should run for President.

Johnny Marr · 28-02-2011 02:17AM

Bacik lost the seat by 147 votes. If she had been ahead of Boyd-Barrett after Barry Andrew's elimination, she would've been elected with Boyd-Barrett's transfers.

The problem she had was that Gilmore had hardly any surplus. Labour seemingly did no vote management at all, whereas Fine Gael did brilliantly.

Btw she got elected to the Senate along with David Norris and Shane Ross, so it's hardly nothing.

MonkeyDoo · 28-02-2011 02:42AM

Johnny Marr wrote: »

Bacik lost the seat by 147 votes. If she had been ahead of Boyd-Barrett after Barry Andrew's elimination, she would've been elected with Boyd-Barrett's transfers.

The problem she had was that Gilmore had hardly any surplus. Labour seemingly did no vote management at all, whereas Fine Gael did brilliantly.

Btw she got elected to the Senate along with David Norris and Shane Ross, so it's hardly nothing.

The problem was Mary Hanifin and Boyd-Barrett were even more popular! Even after being on Eamonn Gilmores ticket.

harney · 28-02-2011 02:52AM

The problem is Obama Ivana sounds too much like Osama, and we can't be having that sort of think around here. :cool:

That or people just don't like her.

Johnny Marr · 28-02-2011 03:00AM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

The problem was Mary Hanifin and Boyd-Barrett were even more popular! Even after being on Eamonn Gilmores ticket.

You could hardly say Hanafin was "more popular" - Bacik got 700 more first preferences.

The reason Hanafin was above Boyd-Barrett and Bacik on the 8th count, was because of Barry Andrew's transfers. Boyd-Barrett was 147 ahead of Bacik, so Bacik got eliminated.

And being on Gilmore's ticket didn't matter as Gilmore just reached the quota, so had just over 100 transfers.

Bacik was very unlucky yesterday, indeed like Boyd Barrett in 2007.

dvpower · 28-02-2011 08:52AM

gizmo555 wrote: »

She didn't get elected as her party leader's running mate in the election in which Labour got it's best ever result. If she couldn't get elected now, it's hard to see how she ever will. Put it this way - she's certainly not a successful political entity . . .

Not being successful this time around != a failed political entity.
Gilmore only just got a quota, but better vote management would have got her in. Additionally she was pipped by a candidate on her end of the political spectrum.
A lot of people posting on this thread simply arnt looking at the facts.

gizmo555 · 28-02-2011 10:07AM

dvpower wrote: »

Not being successful this time around != a failed political entity.

Let's see -

2004: Ran in European Elections, failed to be elected
2009: Dublin Central Bye-Election, failed to be elected
2010: Labour Party selection convention, Dublin SE, failed to get nomination
2011: General Election, Dún Laoghaire, failed to be elected

In fairness, I will give her every credit for perseverance, but her experience with the voters this time is far from being a once-off.

dvpower wrote: »

Gilmore only just got a quota, but better vote management would have got her in.

That's mere speculation - one could say with at least equal justification that in an election in which the party had its best result ever, another less divisive Labour candidate would have been easily elected.

dvpower wrote: »

Aditionally she was pipped by a candidate on her end of the political spectrum.

Well, yes, if she got to choose who she ran against she might also have a better chance.

dvpower wrote: »

A lot of people posting on this thread simply arnt looking at the facts.

Indeed.

Thirdfox · 28-02-2011 11:16AM

I'm in DL and I didn't vote for her - one because I'm not supportive of Labour policies but more importantly two, as a former student of hers I felt that as a legal professor at least she was exceedingly biased in her treatment of men and women (even in the sphere of criminal law).

One episode has always stuck in my mind while attending her classes - when I posed the question to her that women who commit violence against men (whether physical or psychological) would be under the same "prejudice" as men who committed violence against women in the eyes of the law. Instead of acknowledging or respectfully dismissing the point, she laughed in my face and stated "We're living in the real world!" - ironic then that a newspaper article the day after described a leading feminist institute researching into female on male spousal abuse as being perhaps under-reported.

I can accept different people having different points of view - but her narrow mindedness and bias (as can be seen in her book "Gender equality in the Law" (I took a copy home with me) leads me to not regard her as a suitable representative of me in the Dail.

Therefore I was hoping for RBB - though I do not agree with his policies - it was the least evil between himself, Hanafin and Bacik in my opinion.

On the other hand - I do recall many legal students in our class both male and female being impressed by her strength of convictions - maybe that's why they voted her into the Seanad. But strength does not equate to correct, and being an "equalitist" myself I cannot vote for IB in all good conscience.

theg81der · 28-02-2011 11:20AM

If she was a man would we be having this conversation? Again I ask what has Enda Kenny, who`s going to be our Taoiseach, done thats so great, he`s a career politician that flew in on his fathers tailcoat?

Why isn`t she popular....are women suppose to be fuzzy and nicey or motherly, your likening her to a nazi - theres a lot of men in politics that look like they could do with the pole removed from their as$, Enda Kenny being one that looks quite "stiff" and "robotic".

Blowfish · 28-02-2011 11:27AM

Thirdfox wrote: »

One episode has always stuck in my mind while attending her classes - when I posed the question to her that women who commit violence against men (whether physical or psychological) would be under the same "prejudice" as men who committed violence against women in the eyes of the law. Instead of acknowledging or respectfully dismissing the point, she laughed in my face and stated "We're living in the real world!" - ironic then that a newspaper article the day after described a leading feminist institute researching into female on male spousal abuse as being perhaps under-reported.

Indeed, and to make it even worse, she supports lighter sentencing for women who commit the same crime as men.

theg81der · 28-02-2011 11:38AM

Thirdfox wrote: »

One episode has always stuck in my mind while attending her classes - when I posed the question to her that women who commit violence against men (whether physical or psychological) would be under the same "prejudice" as men who committed violence against women in the eyes of the law. Instead of acknowledging or respectfully dismissing the point, she laughed in my face and stated "We're living in the real world!" - ironic then that a newspaper article the day after described a leading feminist institute researching into female on male spousal abuse as being perhaps under-reported.

Maybe she laughed because she does live in the real world. Physically women aren`t as strong as men, they tend to communicate better so are less likely to get frustrated and strike out and they don`t have testosterone in their system to make them naturally aggressive. Would you argue with me if I said it`s far less prevalent, even very rare, more becuase of an inability and less inclination?

gizmo555 · 28-02-2011 11:44AM

theg81der wrote: »

Why isn`t she popular

Because of her extreme views on feminism and gender equality.

theg81der wrote: »

are women suppose to be fuzzy and nicey or motherly

None of these are adjectives which one would readily associate with, for example, Joan Burton, but Burton got elected on the first count in Dublin West with more than double the percentage of first preference votes that Bacik got in Dún Laoghaire.

The problem is not Bacik's personality, it's her extreme feminism.

Thirdfox · 28-02-2011 11:50AM

I suggest you have a look at battered husbands syndrome on google - and then come back and state that wives do not abuse husbands either through physical violence or psychological manipulation.

Just as the figures for male rape can be under-reported due to guys feeling that their "manliness" is belittled by admitting weakness battered husbands is a real and probably under-reported problem too.

And, if she or you were serious about this - she/you would ask for studies looking into the matter - here's one (that focuses mainly on female abuse but acknowledges that a significant number of husbands also get abused):
http://www.irishleftreview.org/2010/06/22/women-domestic-abuse-ireland/

It is important to acknowledge that not only women are subject to domestic abuse and that for male victims this can be a highly traumatic and devastating experience. Furthermore, it is essential that responsive and targeted service support and counselling is made available to support them.

Although, women are far more at risk of domestic abuse and serious assault than men, considerable numbers of men also suffer at the hands of their intimate partner. As a 2005 report conducted by the National Crime Council and Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) showed 15% of women (one in seven) and 6% of men (1 in 16) had been abused by an intimate partner. In total this translated to somewhere in the region of 213,000 women and 88,000 men having been the victim of serious abuse by their partner.

I'm not trying to fight with anyone here - but hopefully people can realise learn that the world isn't black or white - for the ordinary person to dismiss battered husbands is forgivable - for a criminal law professor to be spouting this to future legislators, judiciary members and legal practitioners is rather more perplexing at best and sinister at worst.

So, yes I agree that in all likelihood battered husbands are less of a problem - but 88,000 compared to 213,000 isn't exactly a drop in the sea either. I hope you can also acknowledge that.

Regards.

Johnny Marr · 28-02-2011 12:04PM

gizmo555 wrote: »

None of these are adjectives which one would readily associate with, for example, Joan Burton, but Burton got elected on the first count in Dublin West with more than double the percentage of first preference votes that Bacik got in Dún Laoghaire.

The problem is not Bacik's personality, it's her extreme feminism.

Burton has been involved in her constuency, at local or national level, for 20 years.

Bacik has been involved in Dun Laoghaire for two months.

If she ever wants to be elected (which I know you would not want), then she'd have to go through the local elections and parish duties. All the candidates around her went through this process - especially Boyd Barrett's campaign for the Dun Laoghaire baths and Sallynoggin Library.

Ivana Bacik. A Failed Political Entity?

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