Ivana Bacik. A Failed Political Entity?

Baron_Kunkel · 27-02-2011 08:31PM #1

Why does the Labour Party persist with the repeated failed strategy of putting Ivana Bacik forward as a credible political candidate? She has little or no history of achievement in business or public life outside of her academic prowess which, although considerable, is in isolation to anything else of significance as far as I am aware. Her public profile appears to me to be completely out of kilter with her political talent or any sense of connection to the electorate. Gilmore couldn't even pull her into the Dáil as a running mate.

LordSutch · 27-02-2011 08:33PM

Baron_Kunkel wrote: »

Why does the Labour Party persist with the repeated failed strategy of putting Ivana Bacik forward as a credible political candidate? She has little or no history of achievement in business or public life outside of her academic prowess which, although considerable, is in isolation to anything else of significance as far as I am aware. Her public profile appears to me to be completely out of kilter with her political talent or any sense of connection to the electorate. Gilmore couldn't even pull her into the Dáil as a running mate.

Let me guess now, is this is going to be another Pro Sinn Fein thered?

annoyingbeast · 27-02-2011 08:35PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Let me guess now, is this is going to be another Pro Sinn Fein thered?

Another pro Sinn Fein thread?? all i have seen on Boards.ie over the weekend is Sinn Fein bashing. Same in the media

Baron_Kunkel · 27-02-2011 08:35PM

Absolutely not. No vote for SF here, just a general viewpoint. I really don't see any beginning to Ivana's talents....except academia of course.

Rabble Rabble · 27-02-2011 08:39PM

Well, Academia is a talent.

LordSutch · 27-02-2011 08:39PM

annoyingbeast wrote: »

Another pro Sinn Fein thread?? all i have seen on Boards.ie over the weekend is Sinn Fein bashing. Same in the media

'Yes' Have a look down the threads, I have now lost count of the SF threads in the political/GE forums, and many of the SF posters seem to be brand new posters too, they seem to be coming out of the woodwork!

Massive 'Sinn Fein hype' in the political forums.

Baron_Kunkel · 27-02-2011 08:40PM

Lord Sutch, any chance of staying on topic?

panda100 · 27-02-2011 08:45PM

Baron_Kunkel wrote: »

Why does the Labour Party persist with the repeated failed strategy of putting Ivana Bacik forward as a credible political candidate? She has little or no history of achievement in business or public life outside of her academic prowess which, although considerable, is in isolation to anything else of significance as far as I am aware. Her public profile appears to me to be completely out of kilter with her political talent or any sense of connection to the electorate. Gilmore couldn't even pull her into the Dáil as a running mate.

I'm no big fan of her's but I think its unfair to single her out for having no history of achievement in business or public life as very few people running in the elections would have had those.

She has done excellent work in the equality arena, and that can't be said for many candidates. She's hardly a failed political entity when she just narrowly lost out on winning a seat.

trishasaffron · 27-02-2011 08:46PM

I agree with OP. IB has almost all the credentials that would make me vote for her - female, youngish, articulate, radical with a bit of pragmatism........
But I can't vote for her.............she just seems to have coasted along into politics. If instead of being appointed to the Senate she had actually gone and got a job - set up a business - wrote a novel ....................something tangible and specific. But maybe she's being held to a higher standard cos she's a woman?

In any event if she wants a career as a TD she's got to go and do something different. No more Directorships or cushy jobs - take on something diffilcut without trading on her connections and then I'll vote for her.

Dionysus · 27-02-2011 08:49PM

Baron_Kunkel wrote: »

Why does the Labour Party persist with the repeated failed strategy of putting Ivana Bacik forward as a credible political candidate? She has little or no history of achievement in business or public life outside of her academic prowess which, although considerable, is in isolation to anything else of significance as far as I am aware. Her public profile appears to me to be completely out of kilter with her political talent or any sense of connection to the electorate. Gilmore couldn't even pull her into the Dáil as a running mate.

Ideologues are generally rejected by the Irish electorate. Bacik's "liberalism above all else" creed is inappropriate, to be polite about it, for a modern audience which faces the economic problems which exist in Ireland. Perhaps if she came back and sold herself as less dogmatic/more realistic more people in an Irish electorate would be open to it. At present it consistently appears like she wants a role in the public sphere which is as ivory-towered as her post in TCD. Personally, I find she might as well be running for Kent if her "high street" terminology is anything to go by. It's like she's just too cool to be, well, Irish, and in the default position of mediocre intellectuals in Ireland she becomes more anglocentric. A true intellectual in Ireland would be inspired by the world beyond Britain. That would be a genuine change in mentalities.

Iwannahurl · 27-02-2011 08:49PM

Baron_Kunkel wrote: »

Why does the Labour Party persist with the repeated failed strategy of putting Ivana Bacik forward as a credible political candidate? She has little or no history of achievement in business or public life outside of her academic prowess which, although considerable, is in isolation to anything else of significance as far as I am aware. Her public profile appears to me to be completely out of kilter with her political talent or any sense of connection to the electorate. Gilmore couldn't even pull her into the Dáil as a running mate.

I have no idea what the local realities are for candidates seeking election in Dun Laoghaire, but her CV looks fine to me. She's a campaigner on important social and policy issues, and has serious academic and professional qualifications.

http://www.labour.ie/ivanabacik/

What kind of "political talent" or "sense of connection to the electorate" do you think she needs?

Baron_Kunkel · 27-02-2011 08:50PM

She ran in 2002 and didn't get a seat. she decided not to run in 2007 and went down the road of the seanad job by way of University votes and she also failed in the last European Election. She has had the full might of the Labour party behind her for the guts of 10 years, gets the handy number in Dun Laoghaire as Gilmore's running mate and still coudn't get through. This is in a city that was crying out to elect Labour candidates.

whydoibother? · 27-02-2011 08:51PM

I don't think she's a failed anything.

She is a successful academic. She is a qualified barrister. She has been a politician in the Seanad and has made many quality contributions to the debate there. Through her campaigning she has successfully highlighted many social issues.

Plus she is getting closer and closer to getting into the Dáil. Her performance in this election was actually very strong, only missing out by the tiniest of margins. Clearly a lot of people wanted her.

I think the diversity of experience she has would actually make her a very good person to have in the Dáil.

Permabear · 27-02-2011 08:52PM

This post has been deleted.

Iwannahurl · 27-02-2011 08:52PM

trishasaffron wrote: »

I agree with OP. IB has almost all the credentials that would make me vote for her - female, youngish, articulate, radical with a bit of pragmatism........
But I can't vote for her.............she just seems to have coasted along into politics. If instead of being appointed to the Senate she had actually gone and got a job - set up a business - wrote a novel ....................something tangible and specific. But maybe she's being held to a higher standard cos she's a woman?

In any event if she wants a career as a TD she's got to go and do something different. No more Directorships or cushy jobs - take on something diffilcut without trading on her connections and then I'll vote for her.

Wrote a novel? Are you serious?

I'm curious: what literary genre would impress you most?

Chucky the tree · 27-02-2011 08:55PM

A few I as I see it. She hasn't done much for her own constitency. Most politicians become councillors get a support base and push on from there. She's running in an area against far lefty Richard boyd-barret who while being a nut job by accounts has done a lot for the local area and people. Her views are too left I think, someone else pointed out that at least with RBB you know he'll never be in position of power to have his nut job policies implements but Labour/Bacik would be. Not only that but I don't she'd get many if any transfers from male voters.

purple_hatstand · 27-02-2011 08:58PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Beat me to it...:D

Baron_Kunkel · 27-02-2011 08:59PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I have no idea what the local realities are for candidates seeking election in Dun Laoghaire, but her CV looks fine to me. She's a campaigner on important social and policy issues, and has serious academic and professional qualifications.

http://www.labour.ie/ivanabacik/

What kind of "political talent" or "sense of connection to the electorate" do you think she needs?

Well she needs something because what she has isn't enough to pull her through. The bottom line is that she is wheeled out on various current affairs TV programs to speak at a very high level but I don't know if she gets her hands dirty working for the scrappy votes. I think Council experience would stand to her but I feel she may see that as beneath her.

tricky D · 27-02-2011 09:00PM

She needs to work a bit harder on being more personable and lose some of the ivory tower attitude. I've heard more than one story of her engaging poorly with some of the general public. Her CV is fine and a lot better than many others.

Manach · 27-02-2011 09:01PM

She would be the opposite end of the political spectrum from me, but her papers in academia are respected enough to cited and as well she did write a book "Kicking & Screaming".
In another thread other posters had mentioned her lack of connection to voters.

Hunchback · 27-02-2011 09:06PM

I'm gutted she didn't get through and would give her my first preference again in a heartbeat. I actually DO feel that she connects with the electorate. Well, certainly me and a lot of my friends anyway, as she has a much higher visibility than almost any other politician, with the exception of David Norris, when it comes to the gay community.

Iwannahurl · 27-02-2011 09:07PM

Baron_Kunkel wrote: »

Well she needs something because what she has isn't enough to pull her through. The bottom line is that she is wheeled out on various current affairs TV programs to speak at a very high level but I don't know if she gets her hands dirty working for the scrappy votes. I think Council experience would stand to her but I feel she may see that as beneath her.

I'm not familiar with the constituency so I have no idea what the local Labour wisdom is regarding her electability. Maybe they dislike her too? Maybe Gilmore's crew didn't manage the votes properly?

Issues campaigner RBB didn't work for DLRCC either, AFAIK. But perhaps he might agree regarding Bacik's flaws?!

Getting your "hands dirty working for the scrappy votes" sounds to me like potholes and medical cards. I thought we were striving to leave that clientilism behind in order to bring about real political change?

Hunchback · 27-02-2011 09:08PM

sorry, to qualify that post, her thousands of first preferences would suggest that she's not a failed political entity, despite failing to get elected

mikemac · 27-02-2011 09:12PM

Needs to pick a constituency and stick to it.
People don't like parachute candidates and she doesn't live in both Dublin Central and Dún Laoghaire.
She did well in the election but not close enough

http://www.ivanabacik.ie/newsletters
Not a section on constituency work, does she work in the local area?

Maybe a spell as a councillor would help her, she can build up a support base

Baron_Kunkel · 27-02-2011 09:15PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm not familiar with the constituency so I have no idea what the local Labour wisdom is regarding her electability. Maybe they dislike her too? Maybe Gilmore's crew didn't manage the votes properly?

Issues campaigner RBB didn't work for DLRCC either, AFAIK. But perhaps he might agree regarding Bacik's flaws?!

Getting your "hands dirty working for the scrappy votes" sounds to me like potholes and medical cards. I thought we were striving to leave that clientilism behind in order to bring about real political change?

"Gilmores crew didn't manage the votes properly"? There were only 2 Labour candidates in the election in this constituency. She didn't pull in enough transfers because she wasn't a credible number 2 option for people who voted for Gilmore.

......and you don't have to fill potholes and get medical cards for an electorate to identify with you as a representative of their constituency.

Iwannahurl · 27-02-2011 09:17PM

feelingstressed wrote: »

Needs to pick a constituency and stick to it.
People don't like parachute candidates and she doesn't live in both Dublin Central and Dún Laoghaire.
She did well in the election but not close enough

http://www.ivanabacik.ie/newsletters
Not a section on constituency work, does she work in the local area?

Maybe a spell as a councillor would help her, she can build up a support base

So there are still parish pumps in Dun Laoghaire then? There was I thinking they were a rural Ireland phenomenon, driving the Dubs crazy with the backwardness of it...

Chucky the tree · 27-02-2011 09:20PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So there are still parish pumps in Dun Laoghaire then? There was I thinking they were a rural Ireland phenomenon, driving the Dubs crazy with the backwardness of it...

There's parish pump politics in every constituency.

Baron_Kunkel · 27-02-2011 09:26PM

Ivanahurl......are you, in fact, Ivana Bacik in disguise?

Blowfish · 27-02-2011 09:40PM

I think people are completely overestimating Labour's support in Dun Laoghaire and how much influence Gilmore actually has. Despite being a Dublin constituency, Labour have never been strong here and even when it was a 5 seater, Labour has never gotten more than one seat. This election is the first time ever that either Labour or Gilmore has topped the polls and the only reason they managed to do that is because of the vote management from FG to get Mary Mitchell O'Connor in.

Freiheit · 27-02-2011 09:48PM

I've always liked her, socialy liberal, intellectual and atheist. Whether that would appeal to an electorate really depends on her consitituency I suppose. Reminds me a bit of Barak Obama in terms of intellect and fluency , who I've always felt wouldn't get elected to the Dail because people wouldn't connect with him. I hope Ivana succeeds in the future, she certainly could , but whether she still has the desire in 4 or 5 years remains to be seen.

Blowfish · 27-02-2011 09:53PM

Freiheit wrote: »

I've always liked her, socialy liberal, intellectual and atheist. Whether that would appeal to an electorate really depends on her consitituency I suppose.

In that aspect, she was in completely the wrong constituency. Hanafin went through on first count in 2007 and she's from an incredibly conservative background and carried a lot of that background through when in office, in fact her brother resigned in protest over the civil partnership bill.

Ivana Bacik. A Failed Political Entity?

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