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Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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Comments

  • #1502
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,469 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    NWPat wrote: »
    You are the ill informed, I am not giving credit to anyone, just pointing out that its the Implementation body that decides on these issues and not you. The IMF/EU have no role in the implementation of the CPA, they are only interested in the repayment of loans.

    Whoops!

    Read the MoU before you continue with your factual disaster.


  • #1503
    NWPat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭NWPat


    noodler wrote: »
    Whoops!

    Read the MoU before you continue with your factual disaster.


    Please show me where I have made a factual error and give a full and meaningfull reference. At least I have not resorted to making up quotes to support my argument unlike you.


  • #1504
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    gigino wrote: »
    Paddy the Guard's average annual income ( 60k)

    No you're just being ridiculous.


  • #1505
    The_Thing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    It's Official: I'll be taking the first of my "duvet days" \ "spring-lambing" days for 2011 tomorrow.


  • #1506
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    k_mac wrote: »
    No you're just being ridiculous.

    Do you think the government is just being ridiculous, in having a situation where the average pay of a policeman / Guard is more than the price of a nice new 2 bedroom apartment in one of the biggest towns on the lovely river Shannon...which it even gives tax incentives on him to own :

    http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/current/psempearn.pdf

    http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=310830

    As said before, when midlands / border counties Paddy the Guard retires aged 50 he can put in an offer and maybe get half a dozen of them with his tax free pension lump sum ! Its only Petra the policewoman in Cologne and Peter the cop in midlands UK who is working hard to lend money to our government to give to Paddy. Its not out of your pocket, do not worry.

    The_Thing wrote: »
    It's Official: I'll be taking the first of my "duvet days" \ "spring-lambing" days for 2011 tomorrow.
    Quite right. If Mary Harney can take tiime off to stay in 5 star hotels, which she did, you are entitled to the odd sickie now and again as well, as the employer is the same. Everyone does it.


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  • #1507
    The_Thing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    I've only gotten into sheep farming in the last few years, so it's all a bit new to me and I need to keep an eye on things.

    Before this I used to have a macro in an Excel workbook which would generate a set of randomly chosen dates which fell on week-days spread across the winter months. It's amazing what you can achieve with a bit of VBA.

    Would you take a job in the public sector if you were offered it?


  • #1508
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    I intend to hang on to mine for as long as I can. Its better than winning the lottery. I do realise though its unsustainable and sooner or later the government will bring public sector wages and pensions in to line with levels in other countries and closer to the private sector too. I think for the good of the country its better that happens sooner rather than later. Of course old age pensions + social welfare has to come down too.


  • #1509
    Head The Wall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    NWPat wrote: »
    in 2010 1.8 billion was saved by the introduction of the pension levy and a series of pay cuts.

    The pension levy has nothing to do with the CP agreement


  • #1510
    NWPat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭NWPat


    Head The Wall wrote: »
    The pension levy has nothing to do with the CP agreement

    Thats your opinion, the Implementation Body says that it does and has included these savings. The next Government will be taking all their figures from this body, not from you.


  • #1511
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    The_Thing wrote: »
    I've only gotten into sheep farming in the last few years, so it's all a bit new to me and I need to keep an eye on things.

    Before this I used to have a macro in an Excel workbook which would generate a set of randomly chosen dates which fell on week-days spread across the winter months. It's amazing what you can achieve with a bit of VBA.

    Would you take a job in the public sector if you were offered it?


    I see your posts and wonder are you trolling?

    To be honest your attitude pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with the PS and perpetuates the myth that all public servants are of the same mindset as you and chancers.

    Obviously this is not true but you dont help their cause.


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  • #1512
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    I see your posts and wonder are you trolling?

    To be honest your attitude pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with the PS and perpetuates the myth that all public servants are of the same mindset as you and chancers.

    Obviously this is not true but you dont help their cause.

    its the same with the Private Sector, some are chancers, but not them all.

    i think you have to take some peoples posts on here with a pinch of salt, we dont really know if the poster are :
    • Public Sector
    • Private Sector
    • Actually working At All
    • On SW
    • Students
    • Simply Trolls


  • #1513
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,469 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    kceire wrote: »
    its the same with the Private Sector, some are chancers, but not them all.

    i think you have to take some peoples posts on here with a pinch of salt, we dont really know if the poster are :
    • Public Sector
    • Private Sector
    • Actually working At All
    • On SW
    • Students
    • Simply Trolls

    • Care about the state of Ireland's Finances
    • Care that the wage Bill grew out of proportion with taxation revenues and isn't falling proportionately with the current fall in revenues
    • People (working or otherwise) who feel it is simply unfair to see 300,000 unemployed and SW cut when the PS wage Bill continues to take up half of all taxation revenues
    • Economists


  • #1514
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    noodler wrote: »
    • Care about the state of Ireland's Finances
    • Care that the wage Bill grew out of proportion with taxation revenues and isn't falling proportionately with the current fall in revenues
    • People (working or otherwise) who feel it is simply unfair to see 300,000 unemployed and SW cut when the PS wage Bill continues to take up half of all taxation revenues
    • Economists

    If you want to try and present it that way - don't forget that SW bill is costing 22 billion out of the 32 billion we are taking in on tax. 2/3 of tax revenue


  • #1515
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    kceire wrote: »
    its the same with the Private Sector, some are chancers, but not them all.

    i think you have to take some peoples posts on here with a pinch of salt, we dont really know if the poster are :
    • Public Sector
    • Private Sector
    • Actually working At All
    • On SW
    • Students
    • Simply Trolls

    Obviously the things posts are designed to get a repsonse and this is why it looks like it could be trolling to me.

    No doubt there are chancers in every sector...but all his posts are about doing as little as possible and add nothing so its hard to understand the mindset and just fuel peoples misconceptions about the public service as a whole.

    Anyways i agree with the pinch of salt attitude.


  • #1516
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    No doubt there are chancers in every sector...but all his posts are about doing as little as possible and add nothing so its hard to understand the mindset and just fuel peoples misconceptions about the public service as a whole.

    thats if he is PS, he could be Private Sector for all we know ;)


  • #1517
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    noodler wrote: »
    … Exchequer Pay & Pensions Bill (Gross) Exchequer Pay & Pensions Bill (Net)
    1999 7,998 7,763
    2000 8,883 8,632
    2001 10,406 10,186
    2002 11,746 11,489
    2003 12,946 12,773
    2004 14,170 13,891
    2005 15,493 14,973
    2006 16,780 16,218
    2007 18,161 17,600
    2008 19,353 18,753
    2009 19,956 18,478
    2010 18,667 17,327
    2011 (estimate) 18,636 ????

    Perhaps if productivity was increased in the public sector ( less doss "sickies", less time off to cash non-existant pay cheques, no web surfing, no xmas paid shopping time off, less time off for lecturers etc ) and with say 10 to 20% redundancies, and say 20 to 40 % cut in wages of the mostly middle + higher paid public servants, the exchequer pay + pensions bill can be brought down from its current level, which is still double what it was ten years ago. I wish it did not have to happen, but this country is one of the most bankrupt countries in the world, if not the most bankrupt, and our public service is still one of the highest paid in the world. We must take the pain.


  • #1518
    UNI4MER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 ✭UNI4MER


    As a resident of California and a business owner this state alone has a unfunded state employee pension liability of 450B. Yet we just elected a gov. who is controlled by the state employee labor unions and our 3/4 of our legistlature is controlled by the same. This is becoming a world wide epedemic in free countries. Where do these union thugs think the money is going to come from?


  • #1519
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    UNI4MER wrote: »
    Where do these union thugs think the money is going to come from?

    They do not care as long as it goes in to their pockets. In this country retiring public servants get a tax free "gratuity" of 18 months salary when they retire - enough on average to buy the guts of a couple of nice apartments in the busiest town on the lovely river Shannon http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=310830- as well as a pension of 50% of their finishing salary in the public service. The union heads - whose members mostly come from the public sector - in this little bankrupt country of 4 million pay themselves almost the same salary each as Barack Obama earns. Its not sustainable and is morally very wrong.


  • #1520
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    UNI4MER wrote: »
    As a resident of California and a business owner this state alone has a unfunded state employee pension liability of 450B. Yet we just elected a gov. who is controlled by the state employee labor unions and our 3/4 of our legistlature is controlled by the same. This is becoming a world wide epedemic in free countries. Where do these union thugs think the money is going to come from?

    That pesky democracy business. When will they corpocracy begin?


  • #1521
    UNI4MER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 ✭UNI4MER


    That's crazy. Here in CA when they work 30 years they get 90% of their pay. Then after they retire they go back again as part time and double dip.


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  • #1522
    The_Thing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    I see your posts and wonder are you trolling?

    I see Jimmy\Japer\gigino's posts and I wonder if he's trolling? He's just said that having a job in the public-sector is better than winning the lottery.

    I have been an employee of the Government for over twenty years.

    In all that time I have borrowed the grand sum of £4,000 to buy my first car.

    I have never had a mortgage and I never will as I was lucky enough to inherit a working farm from my late father.

    I never borrowed a penny \ cent to do up the old farmhouse because I was afraid that something might happen to me or my finances that would mean losing the farm to the bank. Any money that was spent on the place was money I saved. At one point I even had two part-time jobs too.

    Believe it or not I actually voted against benchmarking as I was happy with what I had.

    Because of idiots from all walks of life who didn't have my foresight I'm supposed to share the pain? Sorry, I'm just not willing to do that when I see the criminals walk off into the sunset.

    The way I look at it if the country is going to default I might as well get as much out of the system while I still can.


  • #1523
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    UNI4MER wrote: »
    That's crazy. Here in CA when they work 30 years they get 90% of their pay. Then after they retire they go back again as part time and double dip.

    The USA has just seen the largest scam in the world ever. Wall St took billions in taxpayers money, no one arrested.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216


    Yeah its teachers and nurses who are to blame :rolleyes:

    Turn off Fox news read a bit.


  • #1524
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    The_Thing wrote: »
    I see Jimmy\Japer\gigino's posts and I wonder if he's trolling? He's just said that having a job in the public-sector is better than winning the lottery.

    I have been an employee of the Government for over twenty years.

    In all that time I have borrowed the grand sum of £4,000 to buy my first car.

    I have never had a mortgage and I never will as I was lucky enough to inherit a working farm from my late father.

    I never borrowed a penny \ cent to do up the old farmhouse because I was afraid that something might happen to me or my finances that would mean losing the farm to the bank. Any money that was spent on the place was money I saved. At one point I even had two part-time jobs too.

    Believe it or not I actually voted against benchmarking as I was happy with what I had.

    Because of idiots from all walks of life who didn't have my foresight I'm supposed to share the pain? Sorry, I'm just not willing to do that when I see the criminals walk off into the sunset.

    The way I look at it if the country is going to default I might as well get as much out of the system while I still can.

    Your attitude is sickening.


  • #1525
    NWPat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭NWPat


    gigino wrote: »
    They do not care as long as it goes in to their pockets. In this country retiring public servants get a tax free "gratuity" of 18 months salary when they retire - enough on average to buy the guts of a couple of nice apartments in the busiest town on the lovely river Shannon http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=310830- as well as a pension of 50% of their finishing salary in the public service. The union heads - whose members mostly come from the public sector - in this little bankrupt country of 4 million pay themselves almost the same salary each as Barack Obama earns. Its not sustainable and is morally very wrong.


    These statements in bold are not true, It makes you look very silly to anyone who is possesion of the facts. If you can prove any one of these statements is 100% true I will personaly pay off the nations debt.


  • #1526
    NWPat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭NWPat


    UNI4MER wrote: »
    As a resident of California and a business owner this state alone has a unfunded state employee pension liability of 450B. Yet we just elected a gov. who is controlled by the state employee labor unions and our 3/4 of our legistlature is controlled by the same. This is becoming a world wide epedemic in free countries. Where do these union thugs think the money is going to come from?

    Anyone who has elected The Terminator as their Governor deserves whats coming to them. It was under his regime that the debts were run up. Yet more anger on this thread aimed in the wrong direction.


  • #1527
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    gigino wrote: »
    They do not care as long as it goes in to their pockets. In this country retiring public servants get a tax free "gratuity" of 18 months salary when they retire - enough on average to buy the guts of a couple of nice apartments in the busiest town on the lovely river Shannon http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=310830- as well as a pension of 50% of their finishing salary in the public service. The union heads - whose members mostly come from the public sector - in this little bankrupt country of 4 million pay themselves almost the same salary each as Barack Obama earns. Its not sustainable and is morally very wrong.

    more BS with no facts to even get near backing up any of the claims, sometimes i wonder about your blood pressure Jimmmy/Japer/Gigino/Insert Name For 2012 Here...........


  • #1528
    doc_17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,349 ✭✭✭doc_17


    gigino wrote: »
    Paddy the Guard's average annual income ( 60k) can now buy a nice new rwo bedroom apartment on the Shannon


    So Paddy the guard doesn't pay taxes:confused:

    noodler wrote: »

    Pay Bill (Gross) Pensions Bill (Gross) Exchequer Pay & Pensions Bill (Gross)
    2009 17,375,523 2,579,927 19,956
    2010 15,934,832 2,732,802 18,667,634
    2011 15,711,719 2,924,332 18,636,051



    Jesus Boards tables are a pain for me to do.

    Anyway, point there was the disappointing rise in the Pensions Bill leaving an estimated Gross 2011 bill of 18.6bn.




    Pay Bill (Net) Pensions Bill (Net) Exchequer Pay & Pensions Bill (Net)
    2008 17,097 1,656 18,753

    2009 16,471 2,007 18,478
    2010 15,092 2,235 17,327





    Interesting table. There is abigger picture there....pay AND pensions bill. 1 in 4 are drawing pensions so that 18bil isn't all going to current PS workers and any cuts will impact on the worker rather than the pensioner.
    The_Thing wrote: »
    It's Official: I'll be taking the first of my "duvet days" \ "spring-lambing" days for 2011 tomorrow.

    This guy is priceless!!!
    Head The Wall wrote: »
    The pension levy has nothing to do with the CP agreement

    Well...didn't the unions origionally try and get it reversed? and then by accepting the CPA accecpt that they would have to swallow it? I know it has nothing to do with savings under the agreement though.
    Jaysoose wrote: »
    I see your posts and wonder are you trolling?


    Do you really have to ask yourself that? Give yourself some credit now.
    NWPat wrote: »
    Anyone who has elected The Terminator as their Governor deserves whats coming to them. It was under his regime that the debts were run up. Yet more anger on this thread aimed in the wrong direction.

    No I'm sorry it wasn't. He was elected in a recall election because of the state of the Kal i For Ni As finances. Although subsequently he didn't help things...I'll give you that.


  • #1529
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    " In this country retiring public servants get a tax free "gratuity" of 18 months salary when they retire - enough on average to buy the guts of a couple of nice apartments in the busiest town on the lovely river Shannon http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=310830- as well as a pension of 50% of their finishing salary in the public service. The union heads - whose members mostly come from the public sector - in this little bankrupt country of 4 million pay themselves almost the same salary each as Barack Obama earns. Its not sustainable and is morally very wrong."

    NWPat wrote: »
    These statements in bold are not true.

    Maybe you or the poster The-Thing/kceire/insert name can explain public sector pension entitlements, for public servants retiring on completion of service in this country, in your own words.


  • #1530
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    gigino wrote: »
    Maybe you or the poster The-Thing/kceire/insert name can explain public sector pension entitlements, for public servants retiring on completion of service in this country, in your own words.

    Your big fail is your arrogance to admit when your wrong. You keep banging on about PS pensions and how they are awarded free of charge, yet you fail to mention that in alot of cases, myself included, my contributions actually cover the benefits received.

    All this from a supposedly PS worker..... Sorry but even an LOL or a rolleyes doesn't cover that......


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  • #1531
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,469 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    kceire wrote: »
    Your big fail is your arrogance to admit when your wrong. You keep banging on about PS pensions and how they are awarded free of charge, yet you fail to mention that in alot of cases, myself included, my contributions actually cover the benefits received.

    All this from a supposedly PS worker..... Sorry but even an LOL or a rolleyes doesn't cover that......

    Are PS pensions self-sustaining?


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