anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

ultain · 24-02-2011 05:43PM

outandabout wrote: »

I might vote for them in ten years time when Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and others involved in the original Provisional Sinn Fein are no longer involved in politics.

...:rolleyes:....

Scotty # · 24-02-2011 05:56PM

celtictiger32 wrote: »

do you really think that was a party initiative i wouldnt think martin ferris was sent down as an official representitive of SF to collect the lads coming out of prison, he went down as an associate or friend, which i still think hes perfectly entitled to do so.

Yea but you see most of the country don't. Hence such low rating in the poll and in the election tomorrow. Entitled to - yes. Expected to - absolutely not!

It's the two faces of SF showing through again. The public face and the real face.

lugha · 24-02-2011 06:11PM

outandabout wrote: »

I might vote for them in ten years time when Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and others involved in the original Provisional Sinn Fein are no longer involved in politics.

I think that 's the way it will be for a lot of people. When the old “soldiers” (and the ones that were never soldiers

) are gone, people will see SF as a normal political party.
The question then will be, what will they have to offer. The Irish have never (in modern times anyway) embraced the sort of out there socialism that they espouse. And you would have to assume that they don't take the national question too seriously either, given the lip service paid to it by the other “republican” parties. And of course, in any case, the national question had been answered.
They will probably have to find a new niche for themselves. I wonder will they follow a similar path to Gilmore, Rabbitte etc?

Coreleoine · 24-02-2011 06:22PM

As a former tru blood FF supporter I now vote,as a matter of protest, for SF and other Left Wing Parties. Mary Lou McDonald and Joe Higgins speak clearly and concisely about what concerns the average man in the street. I am sick and tired of the babbling Martin, insipid Kenny and talk the talk (only) Gilmore.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 07:04PM

lugha wrote: »

I think in their role in defending the nationalist community PIRA might claim justification for their actions, but not for their overall united Ireland project.
Both Pearse and PIRA might have looked and seen that most Irish people wanted an end to British involvement in Ireland. But unlike Pearse, PIRA were told clearly and repeatedly at the ballot box that the Irish people did not support the means that they would employ to bring unification about.

Thats not too clear cut when you look at Sands being elected, he received near 100% of the nationalist vote, pretty clear mandate. Pearse of course, never asked.

lugha · 24-02-2011 08:13PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Thats not too clear cut when you look at Sands being elected, he received near 100% of the nationalist vote, pretty clear mandate. Pearse of course, never asked.

Sands did not get his mandate for physical force republicanism; that was more a vote against Thatcher's handling off that business rather than a vote for PIRA. It is no more sensible to try to assess PIRA support in the aftermath of emotive events like the hunger strikes or Bloody Sunday than it would be after Warrington or Enniskillen.
A more sensible assessment would be got by looking at their support in general over time. And the vast, vast majority of Irish people in recent times have supported parties who sought to unite Ireland using peaceful means only.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 08:19PM

lugha wrote: »

Sands did not get his mandate for physical force republicanism; that was more a vote against Thatcher's handling off that business rather than a vote for PIRA. It is no more sensible to try to assess PIRA support in the aftermath of emotive events like the hunger strikes or Bloody Sunday than it would be after Warrington or Enniskillen.
A more sensible assessment would be got by looking at their support in general over time. And the vast, vast majority of Irish people in recent times have supported parties who sought to unite Ireland using peaceful means only.

I disagree with that, it was a vote for physical force republicanism, they agreed with Sands demands, his demands to be treated as a prisoner of war, not a criminal. They believed his cause to be legitimate. Regardless, it doesnt really matter anyway, I personally dont really care, I just have an issue with people who unlike you, condemn the IRA as fascists and hail Pearse as a hero.

paul71 · 24-02-2011 08:28PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I disagree with that, it was a vote for physical force republicanism, they agreed with Sands demands, his demands to be treated as a prisoner of war, not a criminal. They believed his cause to be legitimate. Regardless, it doesnt really matter anyway, I personally dont really care, I just have an issue with people who unlike you, condemn the IRA as fascists and hail Pearse as a hero.

How can you disagree when the SDLP were consistantly the largest nationalist party in the north throughout the 70s 80s and 90s until after the Good Friday agreement.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 08:30PM

paul71 wrote: »

How can you disagree when the SDLP were consistantly the largest nationalist party in the north throughout the 70s 80s and 90s until after the Good Friday agreement.

I was disagreeing with the reasons people voted for Bobby Sands.

paul71 · 24-02-2011 08:34PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I was disagreeing with the reasons people voted for Bobby Sands.

Ok, thats a little clearer now, still slightly debatable, people will become more polariaed when such emotive issues are at stake.

lugha · 24-02-2011 08:34PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I just have an issue with people who unlike you, condemn the IRA as fascists and hail Pearse as a hero.

I would include the dissidents as well (Sands might well be in their ranks now if he lived). Of course, you want to be careful pointing out to people that its not very logical to hold polar opposite views of Pearse and PIRA. You might convince them, and they would end up viewing things as I do!

longgrass · 24-02-2011 08:47PM

Sinn Fein on 25 seats in the poll here.
That's great gas alltogether....:cool:

wee truck big driver · 24-02-2011 08:50PM

lugha wrote: »

I have no idea how this relates to what I posted? Presumably you feel a second referendum was undemocratic? I disagree, but how does that have any bearing on individuals recognising, or not, the state?

the first four words or certainly true . the fact is you complained about sinn fein not accepting the will of the people but when the people rejected the lisbon treaty it was shoved down there throat a second time and people knew it would be shoved down their throat a third and fourth time until f.g f.f snd lab got their way and given the expense of thes referendum people lost the will to fight it. if people had of voted yes the first time would we have had a second referendum

Dan_Solo · 24-02-2011 08:55PM

meglome wrote: »

It's as cut and dry as Sinn Féin lying about their economic policies. Knowing full well they won't be in government so won't get called on it fully.

That's is utterly bizarre. What a crazy comment. So everybody who won't be in government is a liar? If a grand coalition kept Fine Gael out of government, would their 5 point plan then retrospectively have been lies?:rolleyes:

Dan_Solo · 24-02-2011 08:57PM

Scotty # wrote: »

Yea but you see most of the country don't. Hence such low rating in the poll and in the election tomorrow. Entitled to - yes. Expected to - absolutely not!

It's the two faces of SF showing through again. The public face and the real face.

Ah, so you've gone forward in time and asked everybody who didn't vote for SF exactly why they didn't? Maybe FG are so high in the ratings because 40% of Ireland are secretly masochists and desperately want to suffer as much as possible?

lugha · 24-02-2011 09:05PM

wee truck big driver wrote: »

the first four words or certainly true . the fact is you complained about sinn fein not accepting the will of the people but when the people rejected the lisbon treaty it was shoved down there throat a second time and people knew it would be shoved down their throat a third and fourth time until f.g f.f snd lab got their way and given the expense of thes referendum people lost the will to fight it. if people had of voted yes the first time would we have had a second referendum

Absolute nonsense comparison. :rolleyes: PIRA followed a campaign of violence to end British rule in Ireland. In election after election the Irish people overwhelmingly supported parties who had the same aims but espoused non-violent means. PIRA IGNORED them and continued with their illegitimate campaign.
Had the government moved to implement Lisbon after it was rejected then there might be some similarity. And even that would be no where need as bad as employing political violence without a mandate. But they didn't. They listened to the concerns of the people, addressed them and put the matter to them again. And they persuaded them (to suggest that people who opposed the treaty but voted yes out of weariness is beyond delusion). For me, this is democracy working at it's finest.

wee truck big driver · 24-02-2011 09:27PM

lugha wrote: »

Absolute nonsense comparison. :rolleyes: PIRA followed a campaign of violence to end British rule in Ireland. In election after election the Irish people overwhelmingly supported parties who had the same aims but espoused non-violent means. PIRA IGNORED them and continued with their illegitimate campaign.
Had the government moved to implement Lisbon after it was rejected then there might be some similarity. And even that would be no where need as bad as employing political violence without a mandate. But they didn't. They listened to the concerns of the people, addressed them and put the matter to them again. And they persuaded them (to suggest that people who opposed the treaty but voted yes out of weariness is beyond delusion). For me, this is democracy working at it's finest.

give me a break they didnt vote yes out of weariness they just didnt vote or you telling me that 100% of the population voted and more than 50% voted yes. as for the ira's brave struglle against the british oppressors just because the majority of people in ireland would rather ignore it and hope that it would go away didnt mean that was the right thing to do.

lugha · 24-02-2011 09:46PM

wee truck big driver wrote: »

as for the ira's brave struglle against the british oppressors just because the majority of people in ireland would rather ignore it and hope that it would go away didnt mean that was the right thing to do.

Whether the Irish people were right or not in their failure to support PIRA is irreleveant. If (and I fear it's a big if for many SF supporters) you claim to be a democrat then you simply must accept the will of the people. If that means gombeen FF government after government will be formed, then as a democrat you must accept it.
You can of course assert that you and like-minded people know better than the rest of us and pursue a fascist agenda. But you could at least be honest and stop pretending that you respect the views of ordinary Irish men and women.

wee truck big driver · 24-02-2011 09:50PM

lugha wrote: »

Whether the Irish people were right or not in their failure to support PIRA is irreleveant. If (and I fear it's a big if for many SF supporters) you claim to be a democrat then you simply must accept the will of the people. If that means gombeen FF government after government will be formed, then as a democrat you must accept it.
You can of course assert that you and like-minded people know better than the rest of us and pursue a fascist agenda. But you could at least be honest and stop pretending that you respect the views of ordinary Irish men and women.

you must be getting me mixed up with somebody else i couldnt give a flyin fcuk what what the ordianry men and women of ireland want as far as iam concerned if your not republican your not irish

LordSutch · 24-02-2011 10:09PM

wee truck big driver wrote: »

as for the ira's brave struglle against the british oppressors just because the majority of people in ireland would rather ignore it and hope that it would go away didnt mean that was the right thing to do.

Dear God, where do you get taught this stuff :rolleyes: one of Gadaffis IRA training manuals from the 80s maybe?

The IRA were my enemy, and I mean that, they really were my enemy, they were also the enemy of the Irish people who NEVER gave permission for the PIRA to murder at will in the name of Ireland. The PIRA were scum, and for you to sit there and pontificate about "their brave struggle" makes me sick.

I wont be voting for their political wing tomorrow, enough said.

Nodin · 24-02-2011 10:14PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Dear God, where do you get taught this stuff :rolleyes: one of Gadaffis IRA training manuals from the 80s maybe?

The IRA were my enemy, and I mean that, they really were my enemy, they were also the enemy of the Irish people who NEVER gave permission for the PIRA to murder at will in the name of Ireland. The PIRA were scum, and for you to sit there and pontificate about "their brave struggle" makes me sick.

I wont be voting for their political wing tomorrow, enough said.

Not pleased it looks like they're going to double their seats then, I take it?

Gypsies · 24-02-2011 10:15PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Dear God, where do you get taught this stuff :rolleyes: one of Gadaffis IRA training manuals from the 80s amybe?

The IRA were my enemy, and I mean that, they really were my enemy, they were also the enemy of the Irish people who NEVER gave permission for the PIRA to murder at will in the name of Ireland. The PIRA were scum, and for you to sit there and pontificate about "their brave struggle" makes me sick.

I wont be voting for their political wing tomorrow, enough said.

Well said LordSutch! "Brave Struggle" my a**. A bunch of terrorists and cowards, the lot of them - too cowardly to admit to their own atrocities. They murdered unarmed men, women and children and the majority of Sinn Fein represetative have blood of innocents on their hands. I don't know of 1 person in my extended family who would ever give a vote to SF.

wee truck big driver · 24-02-2011 10:17PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Dear God, where do you get taught this stuff :rolleyes: one of Gadaffis IRA training manuals from the 80s maybe?

The IRA were my enemy, and I mean that, they really were my enemy, they were also the enemy of the Irish people who NEVER gave permission for the PIRA to murder at will in the name of Ireland. The PIRA were scum, and for you to sit there and pontificate about "their brave struggle" makes me sick.

I wont be voting for their political wing tomorrow, enough said.

your vote will be sorely missed. but i think i can safely say we will do with out it. surely you should stick to voting for the tories. do you still have your poster of maggie under the matress

lugha · 24-02-2011 10:18PM

wee truck big driver wrote: »

you must be getting me mixed up with somebody else i couldnt give a flyin fcuk what what the ordianry men and women of ireland want as far as iam concerned if your not republican your not irish

Thank you! The fog has lifted. You have made yourself perfectly clear!

Gypsies · 24-02-2011 10:20PM

wee truck big driver wrote: »

you must be getting me mixed up with somebody else i couldnt give a flyin fcuk what what the ordianry men and women of ireland want as far as iam concerned if your not republican your not irish

What you really mean is "if you don't support terrorism, you're not Irish". Looks like you're in the minority wee truck. There are still a lot of decent people on this island..

Nodin · 24-02-2011 10:21PM

wee truck big driver wrote: »

you must be getting me mixed up with somebody else i couldnt give a flyin fcuk what what the ordianry men and women of ireland want as far as iam concerned if your not republican your not irish

A bit of a stupid statement, IMO.

wee truck big driver · 24-02-2011 10:23PM

Gypsies wrote: »

Well said LordSutch! "Brave Struggle" my a**. A bunch of terrorists and cowards, the lot of them - too cowardly to admit to their own atrocities. They murdered unarmed men, women and children and the majority of Sinn Fein represetative have blood of innocents on their hands. I don't know of 1 person in my extended family who would ever give a vote to SF.

lets see the women who joined the ira done so knowing that they would face constant harassement and assault by the british and irish security forces they would also not be able to live a normal life, they would most lighly do time in jail and there was a good chance they would be killed and you can sit on your cosy chair and call them cowards . you are really brave

LordSutch · 24-02-2011 10:23PM

wee truck big driver wrote: »

your vote will be sorely missed. but i think i can safely say we will do with out it. surely you should stick to voting for the tories. do you still have your poster of maggie under the matress

Fine Gael are not Tories :rolleyes:

You really are so brainwashed, that if Irish people don't agree with what the PIRA did, then they must either be Tories, or not proper Irish men, or both? With people like you voting for Sinn Fein (with that kind of SF reasoning), makes me really glad that I have nothing whatsoever to do with your movement.

wee truck big driver · 24-02-2011 10:24PM

Nodin wrote: »

A bit of a stupid statement, IMO.

putting IMO on a post is a bit of a silly thing to do

Nodin · 24-02-2011 10:25PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Fine Gael are not Tories.

You're sure now?

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

Comments