anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

ultain · 24-02-2011 01:19AM

There is a lot of people out there..who see Sf as jobless/no-hoper.com...it''s that very attitude thats really wrong with this country.
we sold our soul (Again) to Europe...$$$$$$ Sick to death of this country and it's "I can speak better polished **** than you" I for one am away in sep

Dan_Solo · 24-02-2011 01:20AM

TBH I don't care really even if everything SF have accused of is true. Right now cancelling the bailouts is more important. Killing NAMA is more important. Fairer taxes including wealth tax is more important.
More people will die on trollies over the next 10 years as FF/FG/Lab insist on more bank bailouts than have EVER died at the hands of the IRA.

ultain · 24-02-2011 01:26AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

TBH I don't care really even if everything SF have accused of is true. Right now cancelling the bailouts is more important. Killing NAMA is more important. Fairer taxes including wealth tax is more important.
More people will die on trollies over the next 10 years as FF/FG/Lab insist on more bank bailouts than have EVER died at the hands of the IRA.

But it wont happen, cancelling the bailouts...it's going to be a nightmare situation next year

meglome · 24-02-2011 01:29AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

TBH I don't care really even if everything SF have accused of is true. Right now cancelling the bailouts is more important. Killing NAMA is more important. Fairer taxes including wealth tax is more important.
More people will die on trollies over the next 10 years as FF/FG/Lab insist on more bank bailouts than have EVER died at the hands of the IRA.

But this is precisely the point... They won't be in a position to cancel the bailouts and even if they were the way they are talking about it is nonsense. Killing NAMA again is very easy to say but another thing to do. And of course we have the situation where the rich are the ones who pay most of the tax in this country already. While the people on say 25k pay next to none.

Some people might have issue with who Sinn Fein are but most of us have issue with the lies they are telling.

caseyann · 24-02-2011 01:33AM

meglome wrote: »

But this is precisely the point... They won't be in a position to cancel the bailouts and even if they were the way they are talking about it is nonsense. Killing NAMA again is very easy to say but another thing to do. And of course we have the situation where the rich are the ones who pay most of the tax in this country already. While the people on say 25k pay next to none.

Some people might have issue with who Sinn Fein are but most of us have issue with the lies they are telling.

As opposed to Fianna Gael liar on news tonight,ducking and diving the questions about the banks and not telling the truth of what he already knows like brain(and no thats not a misprint on his name) cowen did until the last day?
SF have shouted from everywhere and complained that Irish have been lied to about everything in economy.

Adrian009 · 24-02-2011 01:33AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

If Gerry Adams came out tomorrow and slated PIRA as terrorists or whatever, SF would collapse, all his work over the years would be undone. Its too soon for anything like that.

But it might also give more progressive elements within the party the chance to clear him out as well as all the baggage the IRA association brings. New start, new voters, etc.

ultain · 24-02-2011 01:35AM

meglome wrote: »

But this is precisely the point... They won't be in a position to cancel the bailouts and even if they were the way they are talking about it is nonsense. Killing NAMA again is very easy to say but another thing to do. And of course we have the situation where the rich are the ones who pay most of the tax in this country already. While the people on say 25k pay next to none.

Some people might have issue with who Sinn Fein are but most of us have issue with the lies they are telling.

what lies are these...do you know the truth?

People on lower income pay next to none..while the rich pay most, surely the point that there is such a gulf between the rich and less well off?

caseyann · 24-02-2011 01:39AM

Adrian009 wrote: »

But it might also give more progressive elements within the party the chance to clear him out as well as all the baggage the IRA association brings. New start, new voters, etc.

Alienating people who put down their arms for them and trusted them to work in their best interests and the people of the north and south.Right so they dont deserve any representation even though they are at peace.
Yeah i wouldnt do it.
But yet you in same breath want to trust British monarchy who have killed Irish people for decades and called us barbarians and made us slaves and treated Irish up north like **** not to long ago still.
And they have political representation.
Show me where they were condemned by all of their political parties?
Seriously can you hear yourself?

meglome · 24-02-2011 01:43AM

ultain wrote: »

People on lower income pay next to none..while the rich pay most, surely the point that there is such a gulf between the rich and less well off?

As a percentage... someone on 25k pays something 2% tax while someone on 100k pays 28%. The point is we're already taxing the rich, the ones we're not taxing are the less well off. I understand the rich have more money but why should someone who works hard for their money accept such an unfair difference. Sinn Fein want to tax the rich even more, do you think they'll just sit there and take that unless everyone is taxed more fairly?

Adrian009 · 24-02-2011 01:45AM

caseyann wrote: »

Alienating people who put down their arms for them and trusted them to work in their best interests and the people of the north and south.Right so they dont deserve any representation even though they are at peace.
Yeah i wouldnt do it.
But yet you in same breath want to trust British monarchy who have killed Irish people for decades and called us barbarians and made us slaves and treated Irish up north like **** not to long ago still.
And they have political representation.
Show me where they were condemned by all of their political parties?
Seriously can you hear yourself?

The IRA were at war with the Irish state as well.
Alienate them by all means because they supported mass murder. I don't care about the feelings of IRA supporters.
I didn't say a thing about monarchy, British or otherwise.
In time, SF may well become Fianna Fail Nua.

dabestman1 · 24-02-2011 01:48AM

lugha wrote: »

The gardai (ban-gardai?) was never named AFAIK and properly so.
The charming PJ Sheehan at least had the decency to immediately resign his position as FG deputy spokesman on ag. and subsequently decided not to seek re-election.

if a normal joe soap had abused the gardai in the way he did, they wud be before the courts, 1 rule for some and another for the elite

ultain · 24-02-2011 01:50AM

caseyann wrote: »

Alienating people who put down their arms for them and trusted them to work in their best interests and the people of the north and south.Right so they dont deserve any representation even though they are at peace.
Yeah i wouldnt do it.
But yet you in same breath want to trust British monarchy who have killed Irish people for decades and called us barbarians and made us slaves and treated Irish up north like **** not to long ago still.
And they have political representation.
Show me where they were condemned by all of their political parties?
Seriously can you hear yourself?

Sadly your words will be lost for many here....They are to educated and well advanced as human beings to relate to such sub-human activity.

As war in their name is locked away in the dark passages of time...and those that fought for their beliefs, that they now hold today are long since dead and alone in the grave.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 01:51AM

Ah but it wasnt sub human when Pearse and co did it

caseyann · 24-02-2011 01:56AM

ultain wrote: »

Sadly your words will be lost for many here....They are to educated and well advanced as human beings to relate to such sub-human activity.

As war in their name is locked away in the dark passages of time...and those that fought for their beliefs, that they now hold today are long since dead and alone in the grave.

Its called being brain washed.
I commend them for setting down arms in name of peace.I dont give a **** what anyone else thinks.
Never heard anyone condemn the loyalists for all the did and the British for all they did for decades to Irish people.And they got out of prison on back of the treaty to with their political allies.

ultain · 24-02-2011 02:00AM

meglome wrote: »

As a percentage... someone on 25k pays something 2% tax while someone on 100k pays 28%. The point is we're already taxing the rich, the ones we're not taxing are the less well off. I understand the rich have more money but why should someone who works hard for their money accept such an unfair difference. Sinn Fein want to tax the rich even more, do you think they'll just sit there and take that unless everyone is taxed more fairly?

Dont gimme that rubbish..its not that cut and dry, there is laws been bent and broken left right and centre in this country....If they worked hard in this country for this country it might be a different story, But it's not!!

celtictiger32 · 24-02-2011 02:14AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The actions of elected politicians differ from the actions of Joe Public.

A TD who votes on the laws of this state collecting people convicted of killing a man tasked with enforcing those laws.

This is different from picking up your mate from the nick.

so when you get elected you have to pick and choose which friends you keep, sorry im a t.d. now it wouldnt look good to be seen in public with you, thats horse ****e and it shows how pompous these 'big party' t.d's are for portaying that. i for one would not disown a friend because of public status, ferris at least had the balls to do the same and i say fair play to him

Alastriona73 · 24-02-2011 02:39AM

meglome wrote: »

As a percentage... someone on 25k pays something 2% tax while someone on 100k pays 28%. The point is we're already taxing the rich, the ones we're not taxing are the less well off. I understand the rich have more money but why should someone who works hard for their money accept such an unfair difference. Sinn Fein want to tax the rich even more, do you think they'll just sit there and take that unless everyone is taxed more fairly?

If someone on 25K has to pay more tax then that may mean having to cut back on basics such as food and fuel.
If I have to pay more tax then I will have to cut out extras such as sky but I will not go hungry.
If someone on 100K plus has to pay more tax then they cut back on extras such as luxury cars and hols.
That is why those of us who earn more should pay more - because overall it hurts us less.
And of course while I crab and moan about cutting back on the extras I do thank my lucky stars I'm not trying to scrounge enough money together to feed my family.

Adrian009 · 24-02-2011 03:05AM

The latest election polls -

Fine Gael - up to a record 40%
Labour - remaining at 18%.
Fianna Fail - down to 15%
Independents - 14%
Sinn Fein - down to 10%.
Greens - up to 3%

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Latest-news-on-the-Irish-Genreal-Election-2011-116726769.html

wee truck big driver · 24-02-2011 06:50AM

wurzlitzer wrote: »

Brendan Hughes said once in an interview that he felt betrayed by Gerry

who would have thought that yourself and safe surfer would have been such big fans of brendan hughes. anuway sinn fein supporters will be the ones having the last laugh when they romp home with 14 or 15 seats

meglome · 24-02-2011 06:58AM

ultain wrote: »

Dont gimme that rubbish..its not that cut and dry, there is laws been bent and broken left right and centre in this country....If they worked hard in this country for this country it might be a different story, But it's not!!

It's as cut and dry as Sinn Féin lying about their economic policies. Knowing full well they won't be in government so won't get called on it fully.

Many many people worked hard in this country and still do. Some of those we're able to make good money and some still are. As far as I can see Sinn Féin is anti the rich, like all of them are scum in some way. It's those same rich people who are already paying most of our taxes, simple fact. The system was very broken here and the people who voted in those governments need to take their share of the responsibility for that.

I'm posting in this thread not because I dislike Sinn Féin per se but I'm sick of being lied to by politicians and they are telling some of the biggest whoppers. I've actually emailed all the people I'm going to vote for and told them I'll make it my life's work to make sure they never get elected again if they start bullshítting instead of dealing with the issues. And believe me I mean it.

Alastriona73 wrote: »

If someone on 25K has to pay more tax then that may mean having to cut back on basics such as food and fuel.
If I have to pay more tax then I will have to cut out extras such as sky but I will not go hungry.
If someone on 100K plus has to pay more tax then they cut back on extras such as luxury cars and hols.
That is why those of us who earn more should pay more - because overall it hurts us less.
And of course while I crab and moan about cutting back on the extras I do thank my lucky stars I'm not trying to scrounge enough money together to feed my family.

As someone who suffered badly financially in this recession believe me I know what it's like to have no money. The point I'm making is Sinn Féin say tax the rich... simple as. But why should the rich except being taxed more heavily when others are not. Let's say we tax people on 100k at 48% that still leaves someone at 25k paying 2%. Is that fair? If I was rich I'd happily pay a higher percentage but I'd have a problem with people paying such a small percentage, we're all using the same services after all. Scandinavian countries are great places to live but everyone pays high taxes to pay for it.

wee truck big driver · 24-02-2011 07:06AM

lugha wrote: »

The use of the term "26 counties" (and "six counties") have and are been used by republicans as alternatives to the official names (or descriptions) of these states to indicate that they do not recognize these states. Now they are perfectly entitled to do this if they wish, but it is undemocratic and its a two-finger sign to the people of Ireland (North and South) who overwhelming supported the Good Friday agreement, which accepted for now, the status quo of two states on this island. And it is rather hypocritical when you consider that SF always argue that the fate of Ireland should be decided by ourselves alone.

If they do not recognize the state, then fine. But the could at least be honest about it and perhaps hitch their wagon to the dissidents or some such grouping. But they want to persist with this, as I called it, half-arsed state recognition. Indeed, some (Adams in particular) has got rather ratty in the past when he was, quite reasonably, questioned on this matter.

so when the irish people had their vote on the lisbon treaty the big parties accepted the will of the irish people to say no to europe...........and again we have the normal double standards on these boards by anti sinnfeiners IT ONLY APPLIES WHEN ITS SINN FEIN INVOLVED

Adrian009 · 24-02-2011 09:33AM

celtictiger32 wrote: »

so when you get elected you have to pick and choose which friends you keep, sorry im a t.d. now it wouldnt look good to be seen in public with you, thats horse ****e and it shows how pompous these 'big party' t.d's are for portaying that. i for one would not disown a friend because of public status, ferris at least had the balls to do the same and i say fair play to him

So long as Sinn Fein has freinds like them it will lack exetensive votes among the electorate. You cannot have a democratic party supporting an undemocratic organisation.

lugha · 24-02-2011 10:34AM

caseyann wrote: »

em and who talked them to the tables? Oh wait was that none other than Gerry Adams and SF party? Oh it was

That's like saying I should acknowledge the part played by criminal gangs in bringing about a truce! With respect to the united Ireland question, PIRA NEVER had authority to claim to represent the Irish people, which they did. If someone in the ranks of the dissidents eventually secures a ceasefire, will you hold him up as a hero as well?

celtictiger32 wrote: »

ah cheer up our problems might be behind us then, and we can all go out watch the parade and have a good time and listen to the address by taoiseach adams..........lol

Nonsense. Enda will be well in to his second triumphant term by then!

And surely after 100 years, you could come up with something a bit more imaginative than a parade?

caseyann wrote: »

I will tell you something,if any of my family or best friends did anything to kill someone or anything else, i would still carry their coffin and be heart broken and mourn them and love their memory of their good things in life,even if i was not on speaking terms and even if they said the most horrendous things ever about me.
Would you not?

I believe Adams shouldered that coffin for political reasons. He was certainly aware of the political repercussions, no matter what decision he made.

caseyann wrote: »

I agree with one thing if FG are in may aswell be ff and bankers in power all over again.As they are still pledging more money to the banks.When will it end.

Very quickly if SF get in and do as they say they will do (they won't and the wouldn't). They would take a massive risk that all would be rosy in a year or so when the money runs out, and if it is not, we would find as well as the bond holders, quite a few bridges burned.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

SF are an all ireland party and they have their reasons for not addressing the province as northern ireland etc. they would be cut down if they referred to n.i as ireland so imo whats the harm in using terminology like 6 counties and 26 counties.

Exactly. They do have their reasons. Well, a reason. They do not really recognise the state! Or at least they are trying to accommodate within their movement individuals who don't. And if you don't see a problem with a party seeking to be public representatives in a state that they don't fully recognise, they I'm afraid we have very ideas of how politics should work in a democratic country.

caseyann wrote: »

Alienating people who put down their arms for them and trusted them to work in their best interests and the people of the north and south.

But they didn't. The Irish people made clear that they wanted a united Ireland. But they were equally clear that they did endorse the PIRA way of bringing that about. Surely you can see that this is absolutely inconsistent with democracy? And even SF own mantra of the Irish question being a matter for the Irish people? This is much the same in effect as British imperialism (you're not one of those are you?;))

dabestman1 wrote: »

if a normal joe soap had abused the gardai in the way he did, they wud be before the courts, 1 rule for some and another for the elite

I am not sure if he actually broke a law but certainly I would hope that had he run in this election he would have been rejected by the people for such behaviour. Sadly, I suspect he would not.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Ah but it wasnt sub human when Pearse and co did it

It was equally undemocratic. Pearse also acted against the wishes of the people. But you are right. It is hypocritical to elevate Pearse as a hero.

wee truck big briver wrote: »

so when the irish people had their vote on the lisbon treaty the big parties accepted the will of the irish people to say no to europe...........and again we have the normal double standards on these boards by anti sinnfeiners IT ONLY APPLIES WHEN ITS SINN FEIN INVOLVED

I have no idea how this relates to what I posted?

Presumably you feel a second referendum was undemocratic? I disagree, but how does that have any bearing on individuals recognising, or not, the state?

Adrian009 · 24-02-2011 10:44AM

lugha wrote: »

That's like saying I should acknowledge the part played by criminal gangs in bringing about a truce!

To most of the people of Ireland and Northern Ireland, the IRA WERE criminal gangs. Why else do you think their political wing, Sinn Fein, recieved so little support while the killing was going on?

Daniel O Donnel · 24-02-2011 12:17PM

In relation to the title of this thread, I will be voting Sinn Fein.

They are a 32 county party and the only party who can truly call themselves republican.

In donegal north east we have a hard working candidate in Padraig macLochlainn.

I hope for the first time in my lifetime there will be a SF TD in Donegal NE.

celtictiger32 · 24-02-2011 04:15PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

So long as Sinn Fein has freinds like them it will lack exetensive votes among the electorate. You cannot have a democratic party supporting an undemocratic organisation.

do you really think that was a party initiative i wouldnt think martin ferris was sent down as an official representitive of SF to collect the lads coming out of prison, he went down as an associate or friend, which i still think hes perfectly entitled to do so.

celtictiger32 · 24-02-2011 04:20PM

Nonsense. Enda will be well in to his second triumphant term by then! And surely after 100 years, you could come up with something a bit more imaginative than a parade

that was actually supposed to be humour but it looks like it got lost on you

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 04:28PM

It was equally undemocratic. Pearse also acted against the wishes of the people. But you are right. It is hypocritical to elevate Pearse as a hero.

If anything the PIRA probably had more justification than he did.

lugha · 24-02-2011 04:54PM

celtictiger32 wrote: »

that was actually supposed to be humour but it looks like it got lost on you

I know it was. As was my reply. But that was definitely lost on you!

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

If anything the PIRA probably had more justification than he did.

I think in their role in defending the nationalist community PIRA might claim justification for their actions, but not for their overall united Ireland project.
Both Pearse and PIRA might have looked and seen that most Irish people wanted an end to British involvement in Ireland. But unlike Pearse, PIRA were told clearly and repeatedly at the ballot box that the Irish people did not support the means that they would employ to bring unification about.

outandabout · 24-02-2011 05:07PM

I might vote for them in ten years time when Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and others involved in the original Provisional Sinn Fein are no longer involved in politics.

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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