Wicklow

edanto · 22-02-2011 01:09PM

Auctionmcd wrote: »

Unfortunately I think Independants whilst they have influence at local level do not have any real clout at National level so I wont be voting for him.

I'd like to make the case that Independents can have an impact. It's the most simplist expression of our democracy that anyone can stand for election.

In this case, FG are convinced that the right thing to do with the bank bondholders is to return all of their money to them, via us taxpayers.

Stephen doesn't agree with that, and that would be one of the main planks of his campaign, that the bond holders should have to take some losses.

If people like you are to give him a no 1 vote and he gets elected, he has the opportunity to influence the government with your wishes, either as part of the government or as a vocal opposition. With the political reform that FG and Labour are proposing, the opposition would have a much larger role to play in the legislative process.

We also have to think of the next few elections. If someone like Donnelly gets elected this time, that could help get a few other Independents concerned with fairness into the next Dail. In time, they might come together as a party. That's how things worked in our early Dails - there have been independents since the very start.

A vote for Donnelly (for example) is the exact opposite of a wasted vote. It's a call for real change, an invitation for qualified people outside of our broken political system to come in and be part of the solution. I hope that you agree with this, and will consider giving him your number 1.

It could come down to a handful of votes, the last seat in Wicklow, and every no.1 counts. Vote for someone that really represents what you care about, and let them make all the difference that they can.

Auctionmcd · 22-02-2011 01:33PM

edanto wrote: »

I'd like to make the case that Independents can have an impact. It's the most simplist expression of our democracy that anyone can stand for election.

In this case, FG are convinced that the right thing to do with the bank bondholders is to return all of their money to them, via us taxpayers.

Stephen doesn't agree with that, and that would be one of the main planks of his campaign, that the bond holders should have to take some losses.

If people like you are to give him a no 1 vote and he gets elected, he has the opportunity to influence the government with your wishes, either as part of the government or as a vocal opposition. With the political reform that FG and Labour are proposing, the opposition would have a much larger role to play in the legislative process.

We also have to think of the next few elections. If someone like Donnelly gets elected this time, that could help get a few other Independents concerned with fairness into the next Dail. In time, they might come together as a party. That's how things worked in our early Dails - there have been independents since the very start.

A vote for Donnelly (for example) is the exact opposite of a wasted vote. It's a call for real change, an invitation for qualified people outside of our broken political system to come in and be part of the solution. I hope that you agree with this, and will consider giving him your number 1.

It could come down to a handful of votes, the last seat in Wicklow, and every no.1 counts. Vote for someone that really represents what you care about, and let them make all the difference that they can.

If he was with a party with a platform I would gladly give him a vote but I cant get past the fact that I cant see him having enough influence on a National stage, I do admit he seems like a credible person.

edanto · 22-02-2011 01:41PM

No worries, sure it's great to read of people with the national level in mind when picking a candidate, I think it's been something missing from previous elections.

We'll just be amicably disagreeing on whether or not an independent can have an impact at a national level, and I hope Stephen gets the chance to show you what he's made of in Leinster house.

Auctionmcd · 22-02-2011 02:01PM

edanto wrote: »

No worries, sure it's great to read of people with the national level in mind when picking a candidate, I think it's been something missing from previous elections.

We'll just be amicably disagreeing on whether or not an independent can have an impact at a national level, and I hope Stephen gets the chance to show you what he's made of in Leinster house.

Wish him the best and hope he has an influence if he does get in.

sylvesterallein · 22-02-2011 03:01PM

".....mac down the road could not afford a mortgage in the long term he went out and got one any way...."

But, GCgirl, once people who couldn't afford mortgages got council houses - somewhere along the way that seems to have stopped - leaving 'mac' vulnerable to cowboy landlords or other unsatisfactory solutions such as he/she and offspring squeezing into already crowded family homes...persuading 'mac' that he/she could afford a mortgage took him off the back of those who should have been responsible for his housing...of course there was 'affordable housing', another laugh as developers who were supposed to provide such schemes in return for planning permission dodged out of that one too....

Auctionmcd · 22-02-2011 09:17PM

sylvesterallein wrote: »

".....mac down the road could not afford a mortgage in the long term he went out and got one any way...."

But, GCgirl, once people who couldn't afford mortgages got council houses - somewhere along the way that seems to have stopped - leaving 'mac' vulnerable to cowboy landlords or other unsatisfactory solutions such as he/she and offspring squeezing into already crowded family homes...persuading 'mac' that he/she could afford a mortgage took him off the back of those who should have been responsible for his housing...of course there was 'affordable housing', another laugh as developers who were supposed to provide such schemes in return for planning permission dodged out of that one too....

I recently qualified (post boom) as an Auctioneer and I can tell you that the Developers and Politicians have always 'looked after' each other and affordable housing is a joke as they have always been given options to escape the necessity to provide these type of properties through monetary means or alternative means.

Mushy · 23-02-2011 11:40AM

edanto wrote: »

That is a fairly stunning claim, and I suppose in the intensity of the campaign it would be best to back it up with something like a link to a newspaper article or some council minutes.

No stunning/heat of the moment claim:

http://www.wicklowpeople.ie/premium/news/controversy-over-house-sale-is-cheap-gimmick-1718147.html

Controversy over house sale is 'cheap gimmick'
KAVANAGH SOLD FAMILY HOME TO TOWN COUNCIL FOR €375,000

Wednesday April 22 2009
A COUNCILLOR has defended the sale of his house for €375,000 to Wicklow Town Council and has described the controversy as nothing more than a 'cheap electoral gimmick.

Obviously not in full but it did happen.

Auctionmcd · 23-02-2011 11:51AM

Mushy wrote: »

No stunning/heat of the moment claim:

http://www.wicklowpeople.ie/premium/news/controversy-over-house-sale-is-cheap-gimmick-1718147.html

Obviously not in full but it did happen.

Where was the property, when was it sold, what were other properties in the area making at the time? Is there any more than accusations in the Wicklow People? (always regarded as a right wing paper by the way)
As I said I just qualified as an Auctioneer and 375000 for any property in Wicklow does not make it overpriced?

Mushy · 23-02-2011 12:01PM

Auctionmcd wrote: »

Where was the property, when was it sold, what were other properties in the area making at the time? Is there any more than accusations in the Wicklow People? (always regarded as a right wing paper by the way)
As I said I just qualified as an Auctioneer and 375000 for any property in Wicklow does not make it overpriced?

Would've been after the housing bubble, in the Wicklow Town area. Other properties were going for no more than 100k less than this. Why say accusations when its clearly not?

I would call it over-priced, especially after what has happened where I live (not too far from wicklow town).

Auctionmcd · 23-02-2011 12:07PM

Mushy wrote: »

Would've been after the housing bubble, in the Wicklow Town area. Other properties were going for no more than 100k less than this. Why say accusations when its clearly not?

I would call it over-priced, especially after what has happened where I live (not too far from wicklow town).

Well they are accusations arent they? If you could give me specifics on the property and the area I can call some auctioneers I know in the area and confirm what house prices and valuations were at the time.
Property valuation is subjective unfortunately and it is determined by market forces. It is not an exact science and errors can be made but if you give me the exact address and the time it was sold I can check with IPAV and local auctioneers as to the value they had on the property or similar properties at the time.

Mushy · 23-02-2011 12:13PM

Auctionmcd wrote: »

Well they are accusations arent they? If you could give me specifics on the property and the area I can call some auctioneers I know in the area and confirm what house prices and valuations were at the time.
Property valuation is subjective unfortunately and it is determined by market forces. It is not an exact science and errors can be made but if you give me the exact address and the time it was sold I can check with IPAV and local auctioneers as to the value they had on the property or similar properties at the time.

Would places have valuations on houses that weren't on the market?

BTW I'm not attacking him, somebody just asked for a link so I provided.

gcgirl · 23-02-2011 12:24PM

sylvesterallein wrote: »

".....mac down the road could not afford a mortgage in the long term he went out and got one any way...."

But, GCgirl, once people who couldn't afford mortgages got council houses - somewhere along the way that seems to have stopped - leaving 'mac' vulnerable to cowboy landlords or other unsatisfactory solutions such as he/she and offspring squeezing into already crowded family homes...persuading 'mac' that he/she could afford a mortgage took him off the back of those who should have been responsible for his housing...of course there was 'affordable housing', another laugh as developers who were supposed to provide such schemes in return for planning permission dodged out of that one too....

I know quite a few married couples getting council houses like the rest of us they had to wait and privatly rent till we got one

Auctionmcd · 23-02-2011 12:26PM

Mushy wrote: »

Would places have valuations on houses that weren't on the market?

BTW I'm not attacking him, somebody just asked for a link so I provided.

Yes of course there would be valuations available for properties even if they were on the market, any property can be valued based on similar properties. No you are not attacking him? Put some links up about the other candidates to show your unbiased nature? Because I have googled this issue regarding Conal Kavanagh and I could not find the above link anywhere, it is obvious that it was known and used deliberately by whomever linked it originally as no matter what links I searched for I could not find it. I also cannot find any further details on the allegations so if you know the exact address of the property and the time it was sold it would be of great help.

spank_inferno · 23-02-2011 01:25PM

It did happen, & it was a very generous price.

Thanks to the person who posted the link from the Wicklow People, that was where I seen it.

I know the house in question, near Kilmantin Hill, nice gaff, but nowhere near the value purchased for.

Its not the first time thats happened in Wicklow town though.

Anyways, I know this will cost him some votes

gcgirl · 23-02-2011 02:01PM

Yes but that was the then current Market price 3 beds were going for that in rathnew and I think it was poss sold 2006/07 period a mad price now but that was what it was like back pre fall

Auctionmcd · 23-02-2011 04:18PM

I still havent seen the exact house number and road that he sold?

Antrim_Man · 23-02-2011 04:30PM

I will be voting for John Brady as he is superb for dealing with local issues. I have tried time and time again to sort local problems with the council with no joy. One call to John Brady and the issue gets resolved.

As for Stephen Donnelly or any other Independent, will they as part of political reform vote to abolish the leaders payment. I think not.

ebbsy · 23-02-2011 04:33PM

Id vote for Jim Tallon before Roche.

Antrim_Man · 23-02-2011 04:37PM

ebbsy wrote: »

Id vote for Jim Tallon before Roche.

I seriously wonder about the sanity of people who would vote for Dick.

ebbsy · 23-02-2011 04:46PM

In fact, Jim tallon should have been given a spot on the debate.

That would have been classic.

BrownianMotion · 23-02-2011 05:12PM

Antrim_Man wrote: »

I seriously wonder about the sanity of people who would vote for Dick.

Maybe Dick has contacts with the council too. One call to Dick and the issue gets resolved. A fine reason to vote for someone, wouldn't you agree?

gcgirl · 23-02-2011 05:14PM

National issues for the td's, local issues for the local councillors that's the way it should be !

Antrim_Man · 23-02-2011 05:18PM

BrownianMotion wrote: »

Maybe Dick has contacts with the council too. One call to Dick and the issue gets resolved. A fine reason to vote for someone, wouldn't you agree?

There is a slight issue with Dick. He is a member of the Fianna Failures

edanto · 23-02-2011 05:33PM

BrownianMotion wrote: »

Maybe Dick has contacts with the council too. One call to Dick and the issue gets resolved. A fine reason to vote for someone, wouldn't you agree?

That depends if you want the same type of politics that got us into this mess, or a different type that has a chance of getting us out of it.

Mushy · 23-02-2011 06:05PM

Auctionmcd wrote: »

Yes of course there would be valuations available for properties even if they were on the market, any property can be valued based on similar properties. No you are not attacking him? Put some links up about the other candidates to show your unbiased nature? Because I have googled this issue regarding Conal Kavanagh and I could not find the above link anywhere, it is obvious that it was known and used deliberately by whomever linked it originally as no matter what links I searched for I could not find it. I also cannot find any further details on the allegations so if you know the exact address of the property and the time it was sold it would be of great help.

Look somebody requested a link and I provided. Just cos you used google does not make my link invalid. I used the search function on wicklow people website. There is no more there cos need to sign up to site for more info.

Dont have any links but I can tell you I am contemplating voting gor him so why would I attack him?

iPlop · 23-02-2011 06:08PM

BrownianMotion wrote: »

Maybe Dick has contacts with the council too. One call to Dick and the issue gets resolved. A fine reason to vote for someone, wouldn't you agree?

Not in my experience ,12 months on an issue and the county managers told him to eff off in the end ,in fairness he tried.But that's not what he should be paid to do ,he should be running the country with the rest of the ministers and there should be a localised person dealing with these issues on his behalf.

BrownianMotion · 23-02-2011 07:24PM

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Not in my experience ,12 months on an issue and the county managers told him to eff off in the end ,in fairness he tried.But that's not what he should be paid to do ,he should be running the country with the rest of the ministers and there should be a localised person dealing with these issues on his behalf.

Missing my point there a bit. I was just letting Antrim_Man know how a voter with the same local issue based priorities as himself may actually vote for someone as unquestionably incompetent as Dick Roche, simply because they're a great man for getting medical cards.

Brady may be a perfectly reasonable choice on the ballot paper but just because he sorted out the council that time isn't a good enough reason. Wider policies have to come into the equation.

juuge · 23-02-2011 08:43PM

BrownianMotion wrote: »

One call to Dick and the issue gets resolved.

How bad do you have to be for Bertie to demote ya? 'Little Dick' Roche is an embarrassment and he personifies all that is corrupt in our 'wink-and-a-nod' political system.

iPlop · 23-02-2011 08:51PM

juuge wrote: »

How bad do you have to be for Bertie to demote ya? 'Little Dick' Roche is an embarrassment and he personifies all that is corrupt in our 'wink-and-a-nod' political system.

I know what you're saying but you wouldn't believe how many people are going to vote for him where I live (North West Wicklow) ,because they think he's a "sound lad and a nice fella"

Jesus!!

Geansai Rua · 23-02-2011 10:58PM

Sink The Banana wrote: »

I saw Billy Timmins handing out his leaflets a few times over the last few days in Blessington and I also have had FF ,Dick Roache's wife to be exact at my door yesterday looking for support.I haven't seen anyone else canvassing the area and calling to doors.

Still havent got even one politician to our door...

I do think Timmins will get in with his keep a TD in west wicklow campaign, but I havent heard of anyone in WW saying they would vote for Roche.
Unless they are too ashamed to admit it!:(

Wicklow

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