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anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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Comments

  • #1982
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Please don't comment on me when you know nothing of my circumstances. How can anyone vote for terrorist apologists but you seem to have no problem with that.

    You just told us what your circumstances are,if you are in the red though even with high paid job,you then wont be taxed will you?
    And please stop with the old terrorist apologist rubbish.It is so old its stinks to high heaven stale.


  • #1983
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    caseyann wrote: »
    Ah i see the real reason now :p

    Because lower paid people dont work hard and dont deserve high wages because their jobs are meaningless and do deserve to be taxed to the hilt.And those who were made redundant and on social welfare deserve to suffer.
    I see lol.
    Personally I believe in the same incentive for everyone.
    I do not believe taxes are for the redistribution of earnings.

    Taxes are for the running of the country including decent social supports,health service roads,schools etc.

    The reason why I don't believe taxation should be for the redistribution of earnings is because that destroys primary goal number one and that is the incentive to better yourself.
    I also don't believe in universality of income.I do believe in a basic standard of living yes, but thats where the social supports come in.
    There should be an incentive not to have the state support you and that is in other words to reach your goals in life.

    To that end,the notion that those who earn more should pay more by having them pay a higher rate of tax than those on lower incomes is wrong.
    What is right is to ensure that the amount of tax they pay is higher because they pay the same rate as everyone else.
    If as in most cases their income is the fruits of their labour,then it is wrong to disincentivise them and penalise them by making them pay a bigger percentage of what they earn when they are already contributing a bigger amount by virtue of earning more anyway.

    Thats my fundamental disagreement with SF and the ULA's income tax policy.
    That and the fact the sums are so far off the mark in how they would get the money to run the country that,it actually makes them look wacky.

    I've totally no interest in SF's recent past.It doesn't figure.
    All I can comment on that would be,they've drawn a line under it.
    Their popularity politically started to grow once they ended the warfare.
    They have no intention of repeating it.

    People can legitimately dislike or like them for their past I just don't care.
    I'm more interested in the here and now and frankly they couldn't convince me to vote for policies that cannot be paid for.
    They're not even being realistic as to how on earth they'd get the money to run the country because at current levels,it just isn't and won't ever be there.


  • #1984
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,613 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    caseyann wrote: »
    You just told us what your circumstances are,if you are in the red though even with high paid job,you then wont be taxed will you?
    And please stop with the old terrorist apologist rubbish.It is so old its stinks to high heaven stale.

    I never said anything about being in the red or about having a high paid job. And i already pay tax thank you. SF are apologists and clearly you are happy with that.


  • #1985
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I thinks its disgraceful that people equate bettering themselves with having more cash


  • #1986
    luapenak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭luapenak


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    SF are all about fantasy economics. There numbers don't add up. SF fans are in denial.
    +1


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  • #1987
    Jim236
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    SF are apologists and clearly you are happy with that.

    To be fair, you have to put the actions of the IRA into perspective and take into account the actions of not just Loyalist paramilitaries, but also that of the British Army and British intelligence agencies.

    I'm sure you're against the actions of all those parties just as much as you are against that of the IRA, but I think its a bit unfair to hold the actions of the IRA against Sinn Féin. The IRA were fighting a war with British forces that was just as legitimate as the Easter Rising or the War of Independence.

    I'm not for one second trying to justify the killing of Jean McConville or any of the other 'disappeared', or those who died in the Enniskillen or Omagh bombings, but lets have a bit of balance. If you're going to hold the actions of the IRA against Sinn Féin, then you should also hold the actions of the old IRA against Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, which I wouldn't expect you or anyone to do. It would be nice to that all those who died in the War of Independence were legitimate targets, but the reality is there were plenty of Jean McConvilles back then as well, which is one of the sad realities of war.

    I also think its a bit hypocritical on your part that you've made so many posts decrying Sinn Féin and their history, yet have said nothing against the British government for the past actions of their army and intelligence agencies who along with the RUC colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries to carry out some of the most deadliest attacks of the troubles. I wonder, would you also support the UK being held to account at an international war crimes tribunal for its actions?


  • #1988
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Vote for SF is a vote for the people and all workers.
    Sinn Fein's alternative involves capping public service and semi-state salaries at €100,000, implementing efficiency measures and planning public services on the basis of need, protecting front-line jobs and enhancing services where necessary." :cool:

    "Fine Gael has pledged to get rid of 30,000 jobs in the public services while campaigning on the slogan 'Let's Get Ireland Working'," said Ó Caoláin.

    We all agree that inefficiencies in the public services must be addressed but abolishing 30,000 posts goes far beyond dispensing with excessive bureaucracy. It would devastate public services, plunging our health system into deeper crisis, increasing class sizes in our schools and preventing local authorities from providing their services to communities, including the maintenance of roads and protection of the environment.

    Fine Gael says these posts will go as a result of 'natural wastage' and voluntary redundancies, but the fact remains that after this process there will be 30,000 fewer jobs and 30,000 fewer people to provide services which the public need and for which they are paying with their taxes.



    I hope people realize it is our kids futures your nieces and nephews futures that you are whittling away by allowing people like FG and labour get in.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=70762684
    Thank god for SF,every corner they turn SF will give it to them were they need it.


  • #1989
    angelfire9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭angelfire9


    Jim236 wrote: »
    To be fair, you have to put the actions of the IRA into perspective and take into account the actions of not just Loyalist paramilitaries, but also that of the British Army and British intelligence agencies.

    I'm sure you're against the actions of all those parties just as much as you are against that of the IRA, but I think its a bit unfair to hold the actions of the IRA against Sinn Féin. The IRA were fighting a war with British forces that was just as legitimate as the Easter Rising or the War of Independence.

    I'm not for one second trying to justify the killing of Jean McConville or any of the other 'disappeared', or those who died in the Enniskillen or Omagh bombings, but lets have a bit of balance. If you're going to hold the actions of the IRA against Sinn Féin, then you should also hold the actions of the old IRA against Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, which I wouldn't expect you or anyone to do. It would be nice to that all those who died in the War of Independence were legitimate targets, but the reality is there were plenty of Jean McConvilles back then as well, which is one of the sad realities of war.

    I also think its a bit hypocritical on your part that you've made so many posts decrying Sinn Féin and their history, yet have said nothing against the British government for the past actions of their army and intelligence agencies who along with the RUC colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries to carry out some of the most deadliest attacks of the troubles. I wonder, would you also support the UK being held to account at an international war crimes tribunal for its actions?

    I would abhor the actions of the British involved in atrocities in the north Bloody Sunday for example
    Ditto the Loyalists who committed dozens of murders for their "cause"

    But the difference is they are not the ones going for election in the 26 counties Sinn Fein are


  • #1990
    Jim236
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    angelfire9 wrote: »
    But the difference is they are not the ones going for election in the 26 counties Sinn Fein are

    Thats fair enough, but like I pointed out in my post above, if you want to go back far enough both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have violent pasts.

    I mean don't get me wrong, I think the sooner Gerry Adams and his other IRA comrades resign from the Sinn Féin leadership, the better. Only then, will Sinn Féin be able to completely shake off it's connection with the IRA and achieve its full potential this side of the border.

    But comparing the actions of the IRA to everyday crime is just not comparing like-with-like. I just think its the height of hypocrisy to call the IRA terrorists, and yet turn around and celebrate those who fought in the Easter Rising as national heroes.


  • #1991
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    I thinks its disgraceful that people equate bettering themselves with having more cash
    It's reality.
    Something you'd want to have a huge disconnect with if you believe the above.


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  • #1992
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    Three months ago I said on this forum that'd I'd sooner emigrate than vote SF. As it happens I'm doing both. I just now put my local SF candidate as my number 1 choice on the boards poll.

    Why'd I change my mind? Two reasons. One, they aren't campaigning on a republican platform, which is my single biggest gripe with them normally. I know it's still part of who they are, but for the duration of the next Dail I don't think they'll be focusing on it too much.

    Two, I've decided that I don't believe the liberal economic model the Anglo-Saxon world has been using for the last 30 years is good. I want a move to high-tax, high-service level mixed market economy, and SF are the only party which clearly state that they want this, and aren't simply anti-capitalist like the Socialists. Labour don't go far enough as it is, and with FG they'll be watered down even more.

    Finally, I saw my local candidate Eoin O Broin on prime time and I was impressed by him personally (a true rarity for any politician), that pushed them to the top of the list.


  • #1993
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's reality.
    Something you'd want to have a huge disconnect with if you believe the above.
    How is it reality? You rank people by how much they earn?


  • #1994
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    How is it reality? You rank people by how much they earn?
    no I don't rank anybody.

    It's reality that everybody is selfish to their own circumstances.More is never enough.
    Anyone that says otherwise is not telling the truth.


  • #1995
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,464 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Jim236 wrote: »
    the reality is there were plenty of Jean McConvilles back then as well, which is one of the sad realities of war.

    Really? Can you name some female alleged informers killed during the War of Independence?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #1996
    Jim236
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Really? Can you name some female alleged informers killed during the War of Independence?

    When I said "Jean McConvilles", I wasn't referring specifically to female informants, but to those in general who were killed during the WOI, not as legitimate targets but mere pawns caught up in the whole thing.


  • #1997
    to tall for yous
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭to tall for yous


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Thats the Sinn Fein way attack the person not the issue.

    Sinn Fein members have colluded with drug gangs in Dublin and elsewhere.

    The IRA were funded in part by "taxing" drug dealers and other criminals.

    Thats ancient history but your points about Sinn Fein being better placed to police local areas is nothing more than a justification for vigilantism and kangaroo courts.

    i was caught with 20 euros worth hash in 2002 2003.was at a gig,when i went to court their was about 15 - 20 other cases for people who were caught with very small amounts.i got fined 500 euro.there was not 1 drug dealer in court they never is.so i was taxed by ff ,im small fish.so if what you saying is true at lest their taking money off the big fish...i hope they shoot every drug dealer in ireland starting with keanes in limerick.spainish army have been shooting drug dealers for the last year,no more big shipments for cokecain for ireland any more .job well done


  • #1998
    to tall for yous
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭to tall for yous


    caseyann wrote: »
    Oh i do understand,i am one of those people they want to tax in higher wage bracket.And in order to protect and keep people living safe in this country and food on table and not depressed.I am living comfortable and do not begrudge them any of the taxs they need to do what they are wanting to do.
    However you love your money so much and luxury that you would not lose and you dont care about anyone else.Thats your choice.
    Mine is SF choice.


    fair play to you.pitty theres not more of you in ireland who can see whats realy going on.


  • #1999
    to tall for yous
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭to tall for yous


    liveline wrote: »
    I didn't accuse you of anything. I said that people who vote for Sinn Fein have a warped moral compass as the party has clear links with the IRA and still refuses to condemn IRA activity. You then responded by saying that other political parties are immoral because they destroyed the economy but SF are all about morality because they are for the "people and the country" - so basically you are saying that FF destroying the economy is worse than the IRA killing innocent civilians. Am i wrong?


    its all inthe past were moveing on now, care to join us??

    usa founding farthers were terrorists who killed meny.they moved on and have a bill of rights and constitution.but they are in deep deep water to over the banks..how dose 7 trillion sound for a bailout?? madness
    the yanks will vote ron paul to stop this,hes a republican, im voting SF republican


  • #2000
    wurzlitzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭wurzlitzer


    to tall for yous wrote: »
    fair play to you.pitty theres not more of you in ireland who can see whats realy going on.

    I really pity you
    Need to become more informed

    I agree with some of the posters, people who have already decided to vote SF either are misinformed or really do accept their faults, their crap economic policies and their terrorist pasts

    Tbh if they get in as much as 16%, let it be, but time will tell if they will be as successful in the GE 2015

    That is if we don't have a labour / fine Gael hung dail when they fall out over public service reform and the interest rates we pay the bonders


    Now I am the One with the crystal ball;)


  • #2001
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Jim236 wrote: »
    To be fair, you have to put the actions of the IRA into perspective and take into account the actions of not just Loyalist paramilitaries, but also that of the British Army and British intelligence agencies.

    To be fair me bum :rolleyes: That is a disgraceful comment to make, and you obviously have no idea as to what actually went on during the IRAs thirty five year campaign. Look up the list of deliberate Bombings of innocents, Shootings of Policemen, Bus bombings, Car bombings, Tar & featherings, Knee cappings > the list of atrocities by the Provisional IRA is endless, and you have the cheek to equate their actions with that of the Police & the Army, you really do need to stop believing the SF propaganda machine, and if you don't believe me, then take a look at the current Sinn Fein website, (where they are soo proud of their IRA merchandise), all kinds of IRA nasties can be bought! and this in the face of hundreds of people on this island going round in wheelchairs, blinded, maimed, widowed, & with missing limbs. I dont know of any perspective (as you claim) whereby the IRAs actions are acceptable, in a civilised society.


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  • #2002
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    LordSutch wrote: »
    To be fair me bum :rolleyes: That is a disgraceful comment to make, and you obviously have no idea as to what actually went on during the IRAs thirty five year campaign. Look up the list of deliberate Bombings of innocents, Shootings of Policemen, Bus bombings, Car bombings, Tar & featherings, Knee cappings > the list of atrocities by the Provisional IRA is endless, and you have the cheek to equate their actions with that of the Police & the Army, you really do need to stop believing the SF propaganda machine, and if you don't believe me, then take a look at the current Sinn Fein website, (where they are soo proud of their IRA merchandise), all kinds of IRA nasties can be bought! and this in the face of hundreds of people on this island going round in wheelchairs, blinded, maimed, widowed, & with missing limbs. I dont know of any perspective (as you claim) whereby the IRAs actions are acceptable, in a civilised society.
    So when evaluating and discussing the IRA you ignore the context of the day, ah I see.


  • #2003
    Gypsies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66 ✭✭Gypsies


    Jean McConville's daughter was on the streets of Dundalk yesterday handing out leaflets urging people not to vote for Gerry Adams/Sinn Fein and reminding people about what happened to her mother. I admire her and have often wondered how she (and her siblings) must be feeling seeing this man's face day-in day-out on the campaign trail, on the TV, Radio & in the Newspapers. I hope and pray that people will do the right thing, and remember what this family went through on the orders of one Gerry Adams!


  • #2004
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Gypsies wrote: »
    Jean McConville's daughter was on the streets of Dundalk yesterday handing out leaflets urging people not to vote for Gerry Adams/Sinn Fein and reminding people about what happened to her mother. I admire her and have often wondered how she (and her siblings) must be feeling seeing this man's face day-in day-out on the campaign trail, on the TV, Radio & in the Newspapers. I hope and pray that people will do the right thing, and remember what this family went through on the orders of one Gerry Adams!
    Bet she didn't mention her mother was a British informer?


    Dont forget at least one of her kids where in the INLA


  • #2005
    mccoist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭mccoist


    Sinn Fein are only interested in democracy
    Sinn fein have worked successfully up in the six counties with the DUP etc
    Sinn Fein have succesfully sat sat down and negotiated their part of the peace process
    Sinn Fein have only ever been a small time player in the 26 counties even though that is changing day by day as people realise left wing socialist polictics may have some merit
    Sinn Fein never involved itself with engaging in the day to day politics conducted in westminster as a political protest,
    Sinn fein have proposed policies which have to be considered
    Sinn Fein is the most widely respected and well known irish political party
    internationally
    As against this in recent times all the major parties in ireland can be accused of being lazy and disrespectful in their dealing with their attitudes and leadership they have given to our country


  • #2006
    Jim236
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    LordSutch wrote: »
    To be fair me bum :rolleyes: That is a disgraceful comment to make, and you obviously have no idea as to what actually went on during the IRAs thirty five year campaign.

    I know exactly what went on and I don't need lectures from you to know that. And theres nothing disgraceful about what I said.
    LordSutch wrote: »
    Look up the list of deliberate Bombings of innocents, Shootings of Policemen, Bus bombings, Car bombings, Tar & featherings, Knee cappings > the list of atrocities by the Provisional IRA is endless, and you have the cheek to equate their actions with that of the Police & the Army, you really do need to stop believing the SF propaganda machine, and if you don't believe me, then take a look at the current Sinn Fein website, (where they are soo proud of their IRA merchandise), all kinds of IRA nasties can be bought! and this in the face of hundreds of people on this island going round in wheelchairs, blinded, maimed, widowed, & with missing limbs.

    Are you for real? So its ok for the state forces of the UK to engage in terrorism, just because they're the UK state forces? Wow...and you call my comments disgraceful. Unbelievable.
    LordSutch wrote: »
    I dont know of any perspective (as you claim) whereby the IRAs actions are acceptable, in a civilised society.

    Since when is war ever civilised? Thats exactly my point, you're looking at the actions of the IRA from a modern perspective.


  • #2007
    Gypsies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66 ✭✭Gypsies


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Bet she didn't mention her mother was a British informer?


    Dont forget at least one of her kids where in the INLA

    And you have your proof of both of these facts from where, Wolfe Tone? I do not believe that Jean McConville was a British Informer! I have no idea whether or not any of her children were members of the INLA. And even if they were, does murdering the mother of 9 other children who were NOT members, justify what your crowd did to her? You are grasping at straws. Or perhaps you agree and applaud the murder of this poor woman.. Let's say that you are a member of the IRA - does that give somebody the right to murder your mother? How would you feel I wonder?


  • #2008
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Gypsies wrote: »
    And you have your proof of both of these facts from where, Wolfe Tone? I do not believe that Jean McConville was a British Informer! I have no idea whether or not any of her children were members of the INLA. And even if they were, does murdering the mother of 9 other children who were NOT members, justify what your crowd did to her? You are grasping at straws. Or perhaps you agree and applaud the murder of this poor woman.. Let's say that you are a member of the IRA - does that give somebody the right to murder your mother? How would you feel I wonder?

    Where is your proof Gerry Adams ordered it? I would like to see that, because that allegation comes from The Dark who says that she was an informer, do you only believe one of his claims?


    At least one of them was, he did time in Long Kesh.


  • #2009
    Jim236
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    Gypsies wrote: »
    I do not believe that Jean McConville was a British Informer! I have no idea whether or not any of her children were members of the INLA. And even if they were, does murdering the mother of 9 other children who were NOT members, justify what your crowd did to her? You are grasping at straws. Or perhaps you agree and applaud the murder of this poor woman.. Let's say that you are a member of the IRA - does that give somebody the right to murder your mother? How would you feel I wonder?

    Well she was according to Brendan Hughes, who said before he died that she was actually given a warning first and told to stop engaging with the British intelligence agencies, but she carried on. So assuming what Brendan Hughes said was true, she knew full well what she was doing and what the consequences would be.


  • #2010
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Jim236 wrote: »
    Well she was according to Brendan Hughes, who said before he died that she was actually given a warning first and told to stop engaging with the British intelligence agencies, but she carried on. So assuming what Brendan Hughes said was true, she knew full well what she was doing and what the consequences would be.
    Not to mention the British when they gave her a second transmitter


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  • #2011
    to tall for yous
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭to tall for yous


    Gypsies wrote: »
    Jean McConville's daughter was on the streets of Dundalk yesterday handing out leaflets urging people not to vote for Gerry Adams/Sinn Fein and reminding people about what happened to her mother. I admire her and have often wondered how she (and her siblings) must be feeling seeing this man's face day-in day-out on the campaign trail, on the TV, Radio & in the Newspapers. I hope and pray that people will do the right thing, and remember what this family went through on the orders of one Gerry Adams!

    Jean McConville's was puting peoples lives in danger and her own life in danger.why didnt she stop after her first warning??maybe the english didt give her the same choice as the ira,stop or be killed,the english just sent her out to be killed they didnt care about her.she was an informer and she paid for it with her life and for what money.

    informing on your own people in the middle of a war ,thats maddness


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