Hotel first to cut minimum wage

20-02-2011 12:04PM

They cut the minimum wage but haven't reduced the cost of living?

God, dontcha just love this country?

ejmaztec · 20-02-2011 12:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

They cut the minimum wage but haven't reduced the cost of living?

God, dontcha just love this country?

Yes, all of our incomes have dropped like a brick, but the greedy bastards providing us with goods and services haven't dropped their prices much, if any.

They might get the message when customers can't afford to use them and their businesses fold through lack of support.

20-02-2011 12:24PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Yes, all of our incomes have dropped like a brick, but the greedy bastards providing us with goods and services haven't dropped their prices much, if any.

They might get the message when customers can't afford to use them and their businesses fold through lack of support.

Actually I can see Lidl, Aldi and Tesco being the only supermarkets that last.

ShamoBuc · 20-02-2011 12:26PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Yes, all of our incomes have dropped like a brick, but the greedy bastards providing us with goods and services haven't dropped their prices much, if any.

They might get the message when customers can't afford to use them and their businesses fold through lack of support.

So our wages go down, we don't/can't buy the produce, they lose their jobs/company..... and this changes the cost of living how exactly

Sonnenblumen · 20-02-2011 12:27PM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

And while we're waiting for prices to come down but already have pay cuts - what will we live on in the interim?

Shakespear.

ShamoBuc · 20-02-2011 12:28PM

yosemite_sam wrote: »

Reality is beginning to bite, imagine this place in 4 years time when another 14 billion euro is taken out of the economy. It will be like famine times, if you have any sense you'll all move to the coast at least there will be fish there to live on

and when the fish are gone....

phasers · 20-02-2011 12:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually I can see Lidl, Aldi and Tesco being the only supermarkets that last.

Tesco is the worst offender for price hikes.

Dunnes > Tesco

Dempo1 · 20-02-2011 12:36PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Great to see an FF supporter still gets value from his donations.

Took the words right out of my mouth

Gingersnaps · 20-02-2011 12:36PM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Yep here we go, I predicted this on other threads and of course was shouted down by those who just want, cuts, cuts and more cuts. It is not at all surprising this particular hotel was the first.

I think most reasonable employees in every sector understood cuts in wages but has predicted employers will now target anyone currently on minimum rates despite the mantra about this new lower rate being applicable to "New Contracts". I doubt this chance "O Callaghan" will get a way with it but it certainly won't stop him and other unscrupulous employers with Brass Necks chancing their arms.

When will employers get it, the Minimum rate has little if any impact on the bottom line, the Hotel sector in particular is in ****e and certainly not because of its employee's

Its a ****ing disgrace! Just like the sub contractor and major developers, employee's are getting shafted left right and center and the Hotel sector being the worst offenders.

Totally agree. When the cut in minimum pay was introduced, Brian Lenihan said it was a way to create jobs. How many jobs has this created. I would guess None. Just the same jobs with more profits for employers.

galwayrush · 20-02-2011 12:41PM

There are many weeks when i would love to be able to draw the minimun wage, as self employed, i can only take what's in the kitty, no work, or some client does not pay i get zero.

20-02-2011 12:41PM

phasers wrote: »

Tesco is the worst offender for price hikes.

Dunnes > Tesco

Even on their own brand stuff? I find if you shop between the three I mentioned, you can save a lot of money.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-02-2011 12:42PM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

So our wages go down, we don't/can't buy the produce, they lose their jobs/company..... and this changes the cost of living how exactly

Businesses have to reduce prices in order to sell. In theory, anyway. Pity the hotel never thought of this...

Gingersnaps wrote: »

Totally agree. When the cut in minimum pay was introduced, Brian Lenihan said it was a way to create jobs. How many jobs has this created. I would guess None. Just the same jobs with more profits for employers.

... pity Brian didn't think of it either (or chose not to, in keeping with his poredecessors).

Dempo1 · 20-02-2011 12:48PM

chillywilly wrote: »

two options

1. Hotel closes due to high costs and low income, staff lose their jobs.
2. Hotel staff take pay cut and keep their job, hotel hopefully stays open.

A rather simplistic view on what is actually happening in this sector.

Hotels generally are and have been trading at substantial losses and for quite some time. Toxic hotels under receivership or within NAMA are essentially being kept open because of substantial Tax Breaks which only remain in place if the Hotels remain open and trading. In the mean time these Hotels "run by so called management companies" have one agenda only, REVENUE, to pay day to day costs. To generate revenue they have massively reduced prices and therefore profits, in addition services and standards have been curtailed. Cheap rooms are great however ancillary services such as Restaurants, Health centers, amenities have essentially ceased to function. In reality the Kindest and in essence the cheapest thing to do is close these hotels immediately. I sympathies for the staff but sadly through the entire process of keeping loss making hotels functioning, staff and suppliers are being squeezed continuously.

Not a week goes by when another hotel or two is put into receivership. Just recently the Bay view in Killybegs shut its doors with not notice to staff, the diamond coast hotel in sligo called a creditors meeting and just yesterday my own suspicions were confirmed when Carton House (who have been advertising like it was the end of the world for the past 12 months, is in danger of loosing day to day support by its banks.

In the midlands alone i can name 10 hotels and various golf resorts in Receivership and have been so for quite some time. When is this madness going to stop!

ShamoBuc · 20-02-2011 12:54PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Businesses have to reduce prices in order to sell. In theory, anyway. Pity the hotel never thought of this...

QUOTE]

I understand that bit!

Wilser1 · 20-02-2011 12:56PM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Took the words right out of my mouth

Noel O'callaghan owns the Davenport Hotel as well as a few others. He donates large amounts of money to Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil. He is paying for influence on Govt policy's like reducing low paid workers wages.

This move is disgraceful and immoral.

If you are going to stay in a hotel Ireland do it ethically and use www.fairhotels.ie to book your stay.

This type of behaviour will be oh so common when we have a blueshirt Govt.

ScouseMouse · 20-02-2011 12:59PM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Yep here we go, I predicted this on other threads and of course was shouted down by those who just want, cuts, cuts and more cuts. It is not at all surprising this particular hotel was the first.

I think most reasonable employees in every sector understood cuts in wages but has predicted employers will now target anyone currently on minimum rates despite the mantra about this new lower rate being applicable to "New Contracts". I doubt this chance "O Callaghan" will get a way with it but it certainly won't stop him and other unscrupulous employers with Brass Necks chancing their arms.

When will employers get it, the Minimum rate has little if any impact on the bottom line, the Hotel sector in particular is in ****e and certainly not because of its employee's

Its a ****ing disgrace! Just like the sub contractor and major developers, employee's are getting shafted left right and center and the Hotel sector being the worst offenders.

So just lay the staff off as its unviable to pay them, get the remaining staff - who want to work- to take up the slack. Job security is obviously not a consideration for the strikers.

phasers · 20-02-2011 01:02PM

superscouse wrote: »

So just lay the staff off as its unviable to pay them, get the remaining staff - who want to work- to take up the slack. Job security is obviously not a consideration for the strikers.

So the other staff have to do more work for less money. Totally fair.

challengemaster · 20-02-2011 01:04PM

phasers wrote: »

It doesn't happen at all! The price of pretty much everything has gone up recently, have you been food shopping lately? Put petrol in a car? Paid a phone bill?

S'all related tbh. Every time the government hikes the price of petrol, it impacts on every other form of goods we buy, because we're an import country, it ALL has to be transported here, and then around the country.

Price of fuel goes up -> cost of shipping goes up -> cost of goods go up

Which is why anyone who thinks the cost of things is going to fall unless petrol prices fall drastically is completely dreaming.

For anyone that cares - breakdown of fuel prices from pumps.ie

Petrol
Current average petrol price: 144.9
Current Vat: 25.15c/litre
Fixed Duty: 59.622c/litre
Government take: 84.77c/litre
Cost before tax & duty: 60.13c/litre
Retailer & distributor margin (est): 11c/litre
Base petrol price (est): 49.13

Diesel
Current average diesel price: 139.9
Current Vat: 24.28c/litre
Fixed Duty: 48.57c/litre
Government take: 72.85c/litre
Cost before tax & duty: 67.05c/litre
Retailer & distributor margin (est): 11c/litre
Base diesel price (est): 56.05

ScouseMouse · 20-02-2011 01:05PM

phasers wrote: »

So the other staff have to do more work for less money. Totally fair.

I dont know what you do for a living, but most people I know have to work harder these day - me included. Up from 60 to 80 hours a week. I am self employed, no strikes or dole for me !

And as I read the OP, the rest of the staff HAVE signed new contracts.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-02-2011 01:12PM

superscouse wrote: »

So just lay the staff off as its unviable to pay them, get the remaining staff - who want to work- to take up the slack. Job security is obviously not a consideration for the strikers.

superscouse wrote: »

I dont know what you do for a living, but most people I know have to work harder these day - me included. Up from 60 to 80 hours a week. I am self employed, no strikes or dole for me !

And as I read the OP, the rest of the staff HAVE signed new contracts.

Again, what eveidence is there to suggest OC hotels are hard up? If they are, why not reduce prices in order to generate more business? WHy did they not ask for voluntary redundancies?

Of course the staff signed new contracts - their employer threatens to fire you if they didn't. Job security is worth feck all when your employer hands you a contract while making threats at the same time.

Cicero · 20-02-2011 01:14PM

When I first heard of this, I felt it was a very cynical move on behalf of the hotel- i.e. using the excuse of legislation to change, what is a very low wage in the first place- (I still think it is to a degree)...

However, I don't know anyone who isn't down on their salary from what it was 3/4 years ago...

...if saving costs is what is needed for this hotel (and only the management know the answer to that question) - they could have implemented longer hours for the same money, thus giving staff the opportunity to retain the level of income they have become used to
...most people are taking on more responsibility for the same or less money- it's a fact of life...I just don't think that things should have come to industrial action

.....it's a bad sign of poor Industrial relations culture, lack of engagement, trust and communication with staff..

...no-one wins...as a customer, my opinion of O'Callaghan Hotels has gone down somewhat...and that certainly can't be good for future business...

Dempo1 · 20-02-2011 01:14PM

superscouse wrote: »

So just lay the staff off as its unviable to pay them, get the remaining staff - who want to work- to take up the slack. Job security is obviously not a consideration for the strikers.

Therein lies the issue, lay off staff and services can not be met, if the business can not sustain its staffing levels and costs why is it existence. Hotel development and business models must factor in labor intensive costs which the industry has, after all its all about service is it not?

As i pointed out, this hotel and many others like it will continue to sustain substantial losses and not because of its staffing levels. It's all about supply and demand of this there is all to much and not nearly enough.

Notwithstanding the economic crisis, visitor numbers are down, conferencing business has disappeared (whats there to discuss) and home business is non existent with disposal incomes all but evaporated.

I'm in the business and fully agree prices had been to high and i am not trying to support this, what i am saying is too many hotels were built by clueless developers who developed on the back of substantial tax breaks and on the basis of tried and sadly over exaggerated business models, that is Hotels who were getting massive rates for rooms and other services.

ScouseMouse · 20-02-2011 01:20PM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Therein lies the issue, lay off staff and services can not be met, if the business can not sustain its staffing levels and costs why is it existence. Hotel development and business models must factor in labor intensive costs which the industry has, after all its all about service is it not?

As i pointed out, this hotel and many others like it will continue to sustain substantial losses and not because of its staffing levels. It's all about supply and demand of this there is all to much and not nearly enough.

Notwithstanding the economic crisis, visitor numbers are down, conferencing business has disappeared (whats there to discuss) and home business is non existent with disposal incomes all but evaporated.

I'm in the business and fully agree prices had been to high and i am not trying to support this, what i am saying is too many hotels were built by clueless developers who developed on the back of substantial tax breaks and on the basis of tried and sadly over exaggerated business models, that is Hotels who were getting massive rates for rooms and other services.

I agree with everything above, its common sense.

However, this whole thing was brought about by government policies encouraging this and that. This has been played over 100 times so no need to revisit it.

We are all in this together and only knuckling down and hard work is going to salvage anything from this crap.

Dempo1 · 20-02-2011 01:44PM

superscouse wrote: »

I agree with everything above, its common sense.

However, this whole thing was brought about by government policies encouraging this and that. This has been played over 100 times so no need to revisit it.

We are all in this together and only knuckling down and hard work is going to salvage anything from this crap.

Yes agreed re government policy and the banks have a lot to answer for also. Its Ironic that there is a need for us all to work hard together attempting to salvage anything from this crap and yet the only solutions offered by employers in this sector is wage cuts

Its worth pointing out that 90% of hotels reported last year that they had either reduced staff numbers, reduced wages or reduced hours.

Perhaps self catering is the way forward FFS

ejmaztec · 20-02-2011 01:55PM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

So our wages go down, we don't/can't buy the produce, they lose their jobs/company..... and this changes the cost of living how exactly

With businesses folding all over the place, there will be no more paye/prsi collected from these businesses, no income tax or corporation tax, and no more vat will be generated from them.

That will mean that anyone lucky enough to have a job, will have to pay more tax/prsi/levies etc to keep the country afloat, and as a result won't have as much income left over with which to buy stuff.

Prices just haven't dropped enough to compensate for the income that we've all lost.

I went to a local hardware shop yesterday looking for a tin of varnish, and queried the price because it seemed a bit expensive. I was told that it had been at that price for the past two years. I mentioned that all of our incomes had dropped considerably over the past two years, yet we were still expected to pay the same price for this tin. I didn't buy it.

Dempo1 · 20-02-2011 02:09PM

If you asked any Hotel Manager what their Job entailed two years ago they would respond

60% customer service / Food & Beverage / Accommodation
20% Finance / Marketing
10% HR / Training
10% Facilities management

Today

70% Hiding from Suppliers
10% Trying to cut costs, tightening up Rosters, Scrimping and scraping.
10% Hiding from Staff looking for wages
5% Trying to keep their own Jobs
5% Wondering how did it ever get so bad

ShamoBuc · 20-02-2011 03:10PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

With businesses folding all over the place, there will be no more paye/prsi collected from these businesses, no income tax or corporation tax, and no more vat will be generated from them.

That will mean that anyone lucky enough to have a job, will have to pay more tax/prsi/levies etc to keep the country afloat, and as a result won't have as much income left over with which to buy stuff.

Prices just haven't dropped enough to compensate for the income that we've all lost.

I went to a local hardware shop yesterday looking for a tin of varnish, and queried the price because it seemed a bit expensive. I was told that it had been at that price for the past two years. I mentioned that all of our incomes had dropped considerably over the past two years, yet we were still expected to pay the same price for this tin. I didn't buy it.

does that not prove that lowering wages will not lower the cost of living?
Yes prices should have come down BUT they haven't really - so cost of living stays more or less the same.
Well mortgages have gone up, price of petrol is very high etc..... have wages gone down lead to cost of living going up?

Ostrom · 20-02-2011 03:26PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Do you even have an idea how many hotels have either closed down or are on their last legs propped up by receivers and banks? It's a dose of realism. If people don't like it then let the hotels close down instead and the workers swap their pay for the dole.

Ironically an improvement for the workers....

Having worked in the industry for some time, yes. This isn't a catch-all question, tourism is very regionalised, and this precedent of wage reduction makes no such distinctions. Closures are not the fault of the staff, no more than the absurd planning remisses that allowed them to be built in the first place - do you have any idea how difficult it is to sustain a family on minimum wage - or how demoralising to be told your hard labour is suddenly worth less?

Despite the comfort of your bigoted assumption, the dole is not a happy outcome, and I'll forward one of my own by suggesting that most would rather be out working - my own experience, for what it is worth. It is disgusting to think these sentiments are out there, that you refuse to see this for what it is. This has f**k all to do with rationalising, and everything to do with wealthy lobbyists lining the pockets of their subscribers.

emschlem · 20-02-2011 04:53PM

Is this Noel O'Callaghan Hotelier ?

http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF15/016470.jpg

I imagined him as some pot bellied fat bloke.

steddyeddy · 20-02-2011 05:22PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

it doesnt happen over night

or without a desire for change from those who control cost of living

Hotel first to cut minimum wage

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