Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

gigino · 17-02-2011 03:37PM

kceire wrote: »

when i was private Sector up to Jan 2009, my employer matched my private PRSA contributions for me too.

You are all right Jack...but the vast majority of the private sector are not as lucky as you, to have the security of a well paid public sector job, and a golden guaranteed pension to look forward to.
Think of whats good for the country, not just the party who will defend your standard of living at the expense of others in society.

macannrb · 17-02-2011 04:00PM

Welease wrote: »

Agree with every point you make

My single and sole point was to make sure people see the graph for what it is.. Somewhat of a misrepresentation of the compensation of BOTH sectors.

While I also agree

that it is misrepresented, I really dont think the misrepresentations change the numbers to the point that it shows the private sector to be the higher paid.

I also would point out, there are plenty of other things wrong with comparing averages, including non pay perks, actual productivity of the workers, experience of the workers, qualifications of the workers etc etc. But since the country can't pay, that graph is as good as any to justify a 20-30% cut across the board to help bringing down government expenditure

kceire wrote: »

didnt the tax relief for all pension contributions get cut/ even PS staff who earn above the 40% tax bracket lost this allowance?

the tax relief is to be implemented. But no one gets taxed on pension contributions to defined benefit pensions. The largest group that this benefits is PS workers who get more from a DB pensions then a DC pensions typically.

Citizen_Cutback · 17-02-2011 04:35PM

macannrb wrote: »

the tax relief is to be implemented. But no one gets taxed on pension contributions to defined benefit pensions. The largest group that this benefits is PS workers who get more from a DB pensions then a DC pensions typically.

Your contribution above is disturbing. Do have another go at explaining yourself.

(DB -Defined Benefit, DC -Defined Contribution)

th3 s1aught3r · 17-02-2011 04:48PM

gigino wrote: »

You are all right Jack...but the vast majority of the private sector are not as lucky as you, to have the security of a well paid public sector job, and a golden guaranteed pension to look forward to.
Think of whats good for the country, not just the party who will defend your standard of living at the expense of others in society.

Nice thought but at the end of the day everyone will do whats best for them and their families, if thats at someone elses expense, so be it
Its dog eat dog unfortunatley

noodler · 17-02-2011 04:54PM

kceire wrote: »

its amazing that some people in this country will vote a whole policital party into government just to see someone else get a paycut.

it really is true what they say....the irish cant stand to see another person doing better than them.....

That isn't it at all.

We just don't want to borrwo to pay our PS wages above the appropriate..

Although some of the greedy and pompous attitudes displayed on these threads probably does not help.

Citizen_Cutback wrote: »

Gurdgiev is Russian, his wife is Italian-American, their children are Irish. I believe that he means well and intends to stay in Ireland but his analysis has to be coloured by his own experiences with Communism.

Like a good Architect, I sometimes put in spurious additional features to attract the wrath of the planners; I notice that you did not find anything to criticise in the substantive points in my post.

I noted a pathetic attempt to discredit a well-respected academic becasue of his nationality.

Unbelievable that you post that tripe again.

Citizen_Cutback · 17-02-2011 07:28PM

noodler wrote: »

That isn't it at all.

I noted a pathetic attempt to discredit a well-respected academic becasue of his nationality.

Unbelievable that you post that tripe again.

Your approach to debate typifies why this thread has continued with no particular outcome except to ignore or misrepresent the facts as befits the needs of scurrilous Public Sector bashers.

The_Thing · 17-02-2011 07:35PM

gigino wrote: »

Think of whats good for the country, not just the party who will defend your standard of living at the expense of others in society.

This must explain why the youngsters around my area have been busy tearing down and burning Fine Gael election posters since they were first put up.

One could be forgiven for thinking there wasn't a local Blue-Shirt running in the election.

noodler · 17-02-2011 07:46PM

Citizen_Cutback wrote: »

Your approach to debate typifies why this thread has continued with no particular outcome except to ignore or misrepresent the facts as befits the needs of scurrilous Public Sector bashers.

You must be kidding?

This coming from some one who tried to discredit a Russian Economist as communist becuse he points out the bloated size of our PS Pay and Pensions Bill?

Nice try.

Citizen_Cutback · 17-02-2011 08:07PM

noodler wrote: »

You must be kidding?

This coming from some one who tried to discredit a Russian Economist as communist becuse he points out the bloated size of our PS Pay and Pensions Bill?

Nice try.

Sorry! Repeating a false accusation ad infinitum does not change what I actually said.

You can withdraw you accusations against me or substantiate them by referencing where I said that Gurdgiev was a Communist; if anything he is the exact opposite which is the point I was making.

n900guy · 17-02-2011 08:26PM

macannrb wrote: »

both 27k. Ok fair enough

after six years the irish guy gets 44k, and the uk guy gets 38k.

so all the same except then the magic beans arrive:

add in the extra chance of allowances on top of that, which are tax free, that the irish guy will probably get and then you get a more expensive PS.

What allowances? Where? for who? for doing what extra tasks? and then, "probably"? Not good enough. The allowances are no different to those in the UK or other countries. Come up with something more than "probably".

which has to be paid for, and since the tax of the PS goes straight back in to the same coffers which pay their wages, it comes back to the private sector to pay for.

And of course the person who's life is spent on the line working a policeman. It's not all magic, unlike working in "ZOMG I IZ PRIVAT SEKKKKTRO WERKIN IN STARBUX GIMME A PENSHUN" land so many seem to exist in.

One person gets it so we can assume a basic level of security in society. South Africa is an example of where you cannot assume a basic level of security. Other situations occur where you may be bribing police in even other EU states. DO we want to go down that road? Are we really wanting to go back to being a third world state? Seems like that is what is being asked for. Take a paycut, pay taxes, or else buy the McDonalds and new TV but you need to throw the copper a fifty so you don't get your car impounded for parking on a double yellow.

noodler · 17-02-2011 11:48PM

Citizen_Cutback wrote: »

Sorry! Repeating a false accusation ad infinitum does not change what I actually said.

You can withdraw you accusations against me or substantiate them by referencing where I said that Gurdgiev was a Communist; if anything he is the exact opposite which is the point I was making.

You know exactly what you said - attempting to discredit someone's opinion because of their stance.

Japer · 17-02-2011 11:59PM

n900guy wrote: »

One person gets it so we can assume a basic level of security in society. South Africa is an example of where you cannot assume a basic level of security. Other situations occur where you may be bribing police in even other EU states. DO we want to go down that road? Are we really wanting to go back to being a third world state? Seems like that is what is being asked for. Take a paycut, pay taxes, or else buy the McDonalds and new TV but you need to throw the copper a fifty so you don't get your car impounded for parking on a double yellow.

So you think if we do NOT pay our public servants here € 20,000 a year more than in the UK, which is the situation at the moment, we will have to throw them a bribe every time we meet one ? Average public sector pay in the UK is only £ 23 grand a year - why do they generally not take bribes so ? Are you sating the moral values of our public servants is so low that is their salary was reduced from the near 50k a year of a year ago to UK levels, widespread corruption would erupt ?

The_Honeybadger · 18-02-2011 12:09AM

Japer wrote: »

So you think if we do NOT pay our public servants here € 20,000 a year more than in the UK, which is the situation at the moment, we will have to throw them a bribe every time we meet one ? Average public sector pay in the UK is only £ 23 grand a year - why do they generally not take bribes so ? Are you sating the moral values of our public servants is so low that is their salary was reduced from the near 50k a year of a year ago to UK levels, widespread corruption would erupt ?

LOL I actually know of members of an Garda Siochana who turn a blind eye to pubs serving after hours (and I mean packed 2-3 hrs after closing) once they are sorted with a few pints by the publican when they are out socially, it's not exactly a secret either in the town where I live. Also I'd be willing to bet any money planners were paid via brown envelopes during the boom, my point is there are bad eggs in every walk of life, you could triple a guards salary and you'd still get blackguarding like the above, some people just hate parting with their own money, no matter what they earn.

Japer · 18-02-2011 12:21AM

Very true, and in many local areas too Guards ( who in the main are decent people ) are not slow to ask for discount / a good deal with the owners of local shops, garages etc. Everyone knows the local Guard and nobody wants to fall out, in case you get stopped for the odd time being slighly over the speed limit, not wearing a seat belt, etc etc

Probably some of the most corrupt publlic servants in the country were some politicians, eg Haughey, and his successor who did'nt have a bank account + won his money on the horses etc. I would say we will never know the full extent of the brown envelopes passed for planning, foreign apartments + swish holidays etc. Paying public servant people big bucks does not make them less corrupt. Sometimes it may even make them more corrupt. Look at Haughey.

ardmacha · 18-02-2011 12:53AM

Charlie Haughey was not a public servant, he was an elected politician. He was appointed by voters, the majority of whom were in the private sector. He reflected the values of those voters and those values adversely affected the public service, bringing in an "me fein" attitude whose residue has to be eliminated.

Japer · 18-02-2011 01:26AM

Politicians paid by and working for the government are public servants, in that they are supposed to serve the public, just like the other public servants who are paid by and work for the government. They are the top of the government and control the other 300,000 plus public servants, inc the central bank and regulators office.

fliball123 · 18-02-2011 10:18AM

The_Thing wrote: »

This must explain why the youngsters around my area have been busy tearing down and burning Fine Gael election posters since they were first put up.

One could be forgiven for thinking there wasn't a local Blue-Shirt running in the election.

In fairness all parties are getting their posters torn down ...FG are the best out of a bad bunch IMO

RichardAnd · 18-02-2011 12:08PM

mickeyk wrote: »

LOL I actually know of members of an Garda Siochana who turn a blind eye to pubs serving after hours (and I mean packed 2-3 hrs after closing) once they are sorted with a few pints by the publican when they are out socially, it's not exactly a secret either in the town where I live. Also I'd be willing to bet any money planners were paid via brown envelopes during the boom, my point is there are bad eggs in every walk of life, you could triple a guards salary and you'd still get blackguarding like the above, some people just hate parting with their own money, no matter what they earn.

That goes on across the country. It always has and, I dare say, it always will.

th3 s1aught3r · 18-02-2011 01:26PM

Seriously though
Does anyone really think that the next Government will do any serious public sector reform. Given how powerful their unions are and the unrest it would cause ?

Idbatterim · 18-02-2011 02:45PM

Id say FG will do a hell of alot more than anyone else with PS reform, probably nowhere near enough, but better than nothing. The biggest benefactors of the current scenario as a whole are the PS, for the rest of us the best thing to happen would be we fall behind agreed targets with IMF and chainsaw is taken to Croke Park Agreement. (And when it comes to pisstaking, it happens just as much at the bottom, i.e on welfare in alot of cases as it does at the top, atleast those at the top actually work and contribute, and have probably completed atleast 2nd level education, Im not referring to those who want to work or have recently been laid off by the way). Im sick of the waiting, kick the can down the road, accumulating massive debt, to keep this joke on the road! Also in relation to the above comment about how powerful the unions are, in the current climate I dont think anyone, possibly even Ps workers who are in reality land, have the stomach for more unrest, uncertainty and bull****!

ParkRunner · 18-02-2011 03:25PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Id say FG will do a hell of alot more than anyone else with PS reform, probably nowhere near enough, but better than nothing. The biggest benefactors of the current scenario as a whole are the PS, for the rest of us the best thing to happen would be we fall behind agreed targets with IMF and chainsaw is taken to Croke Park Agreement. (And when it comes to pisstaking, it happens just as much at the bottom, i.e on welfare in alot of cases as it does at the top, atleast those at the top actually work and contribute, and have probably completed atleast 2nd level education, Im not referring to those who want to work or have recently been laid off by the way). Im sick of the waiting, kick the can down the road, accumulating massive debt, to keep this joke on the road! Also in relation to the above comment about how powerful the unions are, in the current climate I dont think anyone, possibly even Ps workers who are in reality land, have the stomach for more unrest, uncertainty and bull****!

I personally am anticipating with interest what kind of redundancy package FG will be offering to get rid of 30,000 ps workers. Given the sharp drop in pay, pensions and working conditions and the potential to earn more in the private sector with better working conditions, I and many of my fellow public sector colleagues are interested in taking redundancy.

Japer · 19-02-2011 11:27PM

EF wrote: »

I personally am anticipating with interest what kind of redundancy package FG will be offering to get rid of 30,000 ps workers. Given the sharp drop in pay, pensions and working conditions and the potential to earn more in the private sector with better working conditions, I and many of my fellow public sector colleagues are interested in taking redundancy.

When the imf /eu reduce Irish public sector wages about 30 or 40% , you will find it impossible to get a job in the irish private sector. If you go to other public sectors, you will find you have to work harder for less money e.g. in the UK average public sector pay is only 23k, and the taxpayers there even think that is high / begrudge that.

Gumbo · 19-02-2011 11:39PM

Japer wrote: »

you will find it impossible to get a job in the irish private sector.

why?

Japer wrote: »

in the UK average public sector pay is only 23k, and the taxpayers there even think that is high / begrudge that.

i think we've covered that with lower cost of living in the UK.

ParkRunner · 19-02-2011 11:57PM

Japer wrote: »

When the imf /eu reduce Irish public sector wages about 30 or 40% , you will find it impossible to get a job in the irish private sector. If you go to other public sectors, you will find you have to work harder for less money e.g. in the UK average public sector pay is only 23k, and the taxpayers there even think that is high / begrudge that.

I am confident there are jobs out there for those who are willing to work hard. I worked in the private sector before in any case for many years and now have good public sector experience on top of that.

If public sector pay is reduced 30-40%, which I doubt it will, I hate to imagine the quality of service to the public that will exist as those who can get a job elsewhere will happily take their skills and experience elsewhere.

MJordan · 20-02-2011 12:12AM

A teacher I know was on crap wages up until about 15 years ago when the salaries started to climb and similarly for a nurse I know.

I think there will be a combination of small salary cuts coupled with a reduction / lessening of annual increases will re-balance this ratio.

I you are thinking of going into the teaching - I would hope it is for the extended summer break which should be used to develope another business.

erictheviking1 · 20-02-2011 12:15AM

Japer wrote: »

When the imf /eu reduce Irish public sector wages about 30 or 40% , you will find it impossible to get a job in the irish private sector. If you go to other public sectors, you will find you have to work harder for less money e.g. in the UK average public sector pay is only 23k, and the taxpayers there even think that is high / begrudge that.

Why would they not get a private sector job? Why would the IMF cut their wage 30 or 40%? This post is just petty and abrasive and looking for a reaction!
You seem to forget a lot of public sector workers previously worked private sector. They are highly qualified and experienced.Credit where its due. Most of them would fly through any interview process.
I know from my friends that a lot of them are sick of the public sector and want out.

Gumbo · 20-02-2011 12:17AM

erictheviking1 wrote: »

This post is just petty and abrasive and looking for a reaction!

its purely a "bait" post by the OP as his thread had drifted off to page 3 and jimmmy/japer/gigino had to revive it

erictheviking1 · 20-02-2011 12:30AM

kceire wrote: »

its purely a "bait" post by the OP as his thread had drifted off to page 3 and jimmmy/japer/gigino had to revive it

I'm thinking (and I'm sure many others are too) that jimmmy/japer/gigino is the same poster with a multiple personality disorder;)

The_Thing · 20-02-2011 12:30AM

I am confident there are jobs out there for those who are willing to work hard.

A good agricultural mechanic is worth his weight in gold and would have no problem getting work.

The_Thing · 20-02-2011 12:51AM

erictheviking1 wrote: »

I'm thinking (and I'm sure many others are too) that jimmmy/japer/gigino is the same poster with a multiple personality disorder;)

He's more to be pitied rather than ridiculed.

I hope that he can find peace eventually and that God will forgive him for his lies and trespasses against us. Amen.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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