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Why there are no affordable gaming PC's in Ireland

  • 13-02-2011 12:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭


    Well lets look at the options

    Dell.ie - you get a computer with coloured lights, with an exotic name like Alienware and they charge an absolute rip-off price for it. It isn't a supercar with soul or a vintage wine.. its just components that can be bought for much cheaper elsewhere... much much cheaper..

    Or

    you have custompc.ie (custom pc) - the real cowboys, they just seem to conjure the prices up out of thin air, some things are normal bricks and mortar prices, other components, or upgrades, or "custom pcs" are such a ripoff its almost unbelievable.

    Both of these sites are garnered toward the clueless customer, fair enough.

    But even if you do have any knowledge.. there isn't anywhere in Ireland that offers a good value quality gaming PC.

    I mean I could go onto hardwareversand.de, spec up a quality machine, have it built and shipped to me for 500, sell the thing in Ireland for 600.. and its still better than anything Dell or Custompc.ie or anyone else over here has.

    There was a little bit of a evolution with the Eurosite ankermann-pc.com, I mean they actually put in a good processor AND a good graphics card, they went to the second level.. but of course they are still cowboys with no ethics and terrible service.. they cop out by filling the pc with the cheapest motherboard/psu/case possible... but the fact that they aren't ripping you off still puts them light years above and beyond the likes of Dell and custompc.ie that we have here.

    If Komplett sold a budget gaming PC something with a tri-core AMD chip, an ATI 5750 and a quality PSU for 550 euros.. they'd make a tidy profit AND they'd do a ton of business from all the recommendations on sites like this.

    The money is there on a plate.. I mean look at the competition.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,624 ✭✭✭✭Skerries


    ...and breathe out!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype


    Komplett used to have a PC builder.

    Basically, people don't see the value of a good motherboard and PSU and will go for a cheaper option if they can, so that's where the money is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 900 ✭✭✭superfish


    why not try ebay ? im looking to buy an all in one pc they seem cheap enough on ebay


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    superfish wrote: »
    why not try ebay ? im looking to buy an all in one pc they seem cheap enough on ebay

    Don't, You'll not get anything of value and will most likely get ripped off.


    Why not build one yourself, everyone else here does,

    .....................................thats why its called the PC Building and Upgrading forum, not the PC Buying forum ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭seraphimvc


    i am just gonna say that the pc market in ireland is still in the 'ripoff from the clueless people' era. well, thats basically how most of the pc sellers in the rest of the world do anyway but here in ireland i feel like we are still in the 90s - there is a very small number the pc hardware shops in dublin city centre and their prices are still pretty ripoff.

    low pc hardware shops = hard to get good value gaming pc (in brick and mortar shop).

    i think the shipping is the biggest factor for everything is more expensive over here :(


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Its hard for Irish stores to compete with German stores with Germanys 19% VAT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    Its hard for Irish stores to compete with German stores with Germanys 19% VAT

    Its nothing to do with VAT actually.. its just a mentality

    Komplett and Pixmanias component prices are on average slightly higher, but you can easily find better deals than Germany..

    The component market here is fine really and not too much of an issue.. its just that the market for gaming PCs has a huge big empty hole in the middle of it

    We're filling that void speccing people hardwareversand.de pcs when Komplett or Pix or some company that arent cowboys like custompc.ie could be making good bucks on quality gaming pcs

    Look at the view counts on posts here, many many more people are using hardwareversand.de than are actually writing posts here just because we are spreading the word.. pity we can't do that for an Irish company

    Komplett did have some gaming pcs awhile back.. but to be honest they were awful and pretty overpriced. Then they had a build a pc for 500 euro.. and I thought they'd follow it up with that model available, but alass nay.. a little gem like that would .. chosen by the nerd pc builders would sell like hotcakes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Oops.. just to follow up.. ive been building and buying pcs for friends and family for years now.. friends of friends etc

    Half of them are nerds with comp sci degrees etc, but they don't have a clue

    Now, monotype was right, they don't have a clue so they go get whatever, an ebay pc or some yoke off custompc.. however they get burnt once..

    After that they look it up, or ask me..

    Thats a lot of people.. plus all the people on the boards.. plus all those who just read the posts

    So yes.. the majority will always be suckered into a bad pc.. but there is a laaarge minority who do a little research online.. and they are a good market niche

    anyway, sunday rant over.. thats what looking at custompc.ie does for you - hope its coming up in google search now those bastards


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,624 ✭✭✭✭Skerries


    would it be hard for current Irish retailers to come up with a reasonably sourced and priced pc and compete with the Dells and HP's?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype


    I know that Intel used to give greatly discounted processors to dell. AMD must have done something similar. I think they also get windows below standard OEM prices.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Yeah, OEM copys are cheaper than the retail versions retailers would get. When the large manufacturers can buy in such bulk I can see how it would be very hard to compete.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Oh dear, where do I start?

    You're a shill. A painfully obvious one. You would score brownie points for at least trying to contribute, except those contributions seem to be based on trying to sell stuff and make money. Boards.ie does not approve.

    Evo Labs E-3393 - I love how Shopmania charges £29 for this, and CustomPC sell it for over €99. Never mind the fact that you'd have better build quality and cooling off a CM Elite 430, Xigmatek Asgard or the like.

    Evo Labs "700W" - This is actually worse than the godawful "800W" unit that is supposed to come with the case above. I can't even find the spec for it online which we all know is an instant admission of guilt, so I'd guess this comes from the same happy place our lovely exploding Jersey/Xilence/DiabloTek units come from. Its like having a free bomb in your PC! :pac:

    Seagate 500GB HDD - Yeah, there were a few of those. Some were good. Some... weren't.

    1GB HD5750 - Sounds like you're trying to dump old stock now that the HD5770 is inconsiderately spawn-camping the poor HD5750's €100 price point...

    KB/Mouse - A fiver's worth. Tops.

    Win7 - the only good thing about this machine is that it comes with an OS...

    AMD X3-445 - Fair enough. No skimping here, unless they fell off the back of a lorry...

    Gigabyte 520LE SAM3 DDR3-1666 - Just from the product name I can tell this is going to be all sorts of fail... That isn't even a Gigabyte product code for starters! :eek: The real name is GA-M52LT-D3. No reputable company seems to stock it under the alias... CustomPC does though! Funny that... all your stuff is also on CustomPC. Family relation? :pac: Anyway, chipset is ancient - an old nForce5 model. You do know DDR3-1666 isn't a memory standard? You go from DDR3-1600 to DDR3-1866 :)

    Oh, and I don't like the look of the cheapo generic DDR3 modules either :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭seyeM


    The Digistore PC from that deleted post is a prime example of the garbage commonly pedelled as a 'Gaming PC'.
    Evo Labs E-3393
    EVO LABS 700W
    Internal SATA Dual Layer DVD Drive
    Seagate 500GB SATA-II
    1GB XFX HD 5750
    Corded Keyboard
    Standard Corded Mouse
    Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
    AMD ATHLON II X3 445
    Gigabyte 520LE SAM3 DDR3-1666
    4GB DDR3 1333MHZ NANYA
    NO MONITOR
    I'd rather take something like this for a similar price, as I imagine would all readers of this board:

    hwvsp2955.png

    How do these two PCs compare for gaming performance and component quality? :pac:


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    I do find it hilarious that one of the very scummers Jonny was having a go at would have the sheer temerity to post their crap as an advertisement on the same thread :D I was going to leave it up simply as an example of how not to convince people you're not out to con them :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭Maj Malfunction


    People build their own custom PC's around here because they know they will get bad value for money from any bricks and mortar retailer and Irish online custom pc builders.

    How custom is it? You don't get to choose the components you really want a have to settle from a list of overpriced tat.

    At least if you build it yourself, you get what you want and get better quality components or at least a better spec'd PC rather than being ripped off and left with a sore hoop!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭godskitchen


    Is it just a case of not being able to compete in Ireland, it is crazy that we have to import something as simple as patotos, not because we cant grow them, it seems it is cheaper to ship them half way around the world then produce them here......

    Is it the same with manafacturing PCs here, or at least building them here???

    Does any company (Dell/Apple) still build systems here? Do we have an Irish PC manafacture?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    I think theres a decent amount of HPs and Dells and office type pcs here, even some at fair enough prices

    Well anyway, the gauntlet is down, any companies out there who can break the mould and sell a budget gaming pc at a component price + 20/30 euro building fee.. that actually has a non**** PSU/motherboard/case - then they'll get plenty of referrals from ourselves

    connect with your customers not rip them off.. thousands of euros are going to hardwareversand every month


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭godskitchen


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    I think theres a decent amount of HPs and Dells and office type pcs here, even some at fair enough prices

    Well anyway, the gauntlet is down, any companies out there who can break the mould and sell a budget gaming pc at a component price + 20/30 euro building fee.. that actually has a non**** PSU/motherboard/case - then they'll get plenty of referrals from ourselves

    connect with your customers not rip them off.. thousands of euros are going to hardwareversand every month

    Well if anyone wants to discuss starting something along the lines of what Johnny7 has said feel free to contact me........I think I have some good ideas that could work.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    Well if anyone wants to discuss starting something along the lines of what Johnny7 has said feel free to contact me........I think I have some good ideas that could work.

    I'd be up for it :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,706 ✭✭✭Voodu Child


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Well anyway, the gauntlet is down, any companies out there who can break the mould and sell a budget gaming pc at a component price + 20/30 euro building fee.. that actually has a non**** PSU/motherboard/case - then they'll get plenty of referrals from ourselves

    connect with your customers not rip them off.. thousands of euros are going to hardwareversand every month

    20-30 building fee?! :pac:

    I don't think you've considered what is involved in running a business. Paying yourself wages, premises, phone lines, advertising your company, building the machines, testing the machines, taking back machines under the distance selling regulations, dealing with warranty issues, time spent researching new components and builds, time spent on the phone talking to eejits who have an OS problem and think its your problem, packing costs, you could go on and on. And after you've covered all your expenses, you still need to make a profit.

    20-30 euro per machine wouldn't come close to covering all that, unless you want to run a charity you'll be looking at 10+ times that.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭Kinetic^


    Gaming machine - DIY
    Office PC - Dell/HP
    Design PC - Apple (it's not a PC :S)

    It's not feasible to build a machine for 20-30 euro, if you're suggesting this then you have no clue of how much costs business have.

    Insurance
    Rent
    Rates
    Wages
    Light/Heat
    Phone

    That's just the surface costs. Throw in thermal paste, cable ties, cable extenders and a few other things you might not think of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Kinetic^ wrote: »
    Gaming machine - DIY
    Office PC - Dell/HP
    Design PC - Apple (it's not a PC :S)

    It's not feasible to build a machine for 20-30 euro, if you're suggesting this then you have no clue of how much costs business have.

    Insurance
    Rent
    Rates
    Wages
    Light/Heat
    Phone

    That's just the surface costs. Throw in thermal paste, cable ties, cable extenders and a few other things you might not think of.

    + the "my internet explorer isn't working" phone calls 6 months down the road


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Kinetic^ wrote: »
    Gaming machine - DIY
    Office PC - Dell/HP
    Design PC - Decent Dell or DIY + S-IPS monitor

    FYP :pac:

    Seriously though, anyone propagating that retarded "PC Photoshop is FAKE AND GAY!!11!" urban myth for (Steve Jobs') fun and profit can just get out now. I will not tolerate any of that "peasants aren't allowed to do Art/Media/Design/Sound Engineering because they're poor and smelly and Our Lord Steve Jobs said so" in this forum. Ever.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Irish_Elect_Eng


    There is a simple reason that there is no supplier of top notch gaming PCs for €20 Euro over component cost and that is economics. There is not enough demand to support such a business model.

    Even given a profit of €50 over component cost per machine, such a business would have to build 600 per year to support a €30,000 p.a. salary for one person. That is without any overheads.

    Lets add in a couple of very conservative basic costs:

    €10 for courier delivery.
    €5 for packaging.
    €5 for assembly consumables
    €10 for misc overheads, phone website, light, heat, biscuits, insurance

    Now our builder needs to churn out 1500 PCs a year to pay his own wages.

    Thats building and testing 6 full systems a day just to pay his own wage with no profits :-(

    Any that is assuming that you actually have a real market.

    Many of the people that want to buy a top-end PC for gaming, will build or upgrade their own. Or will want a different spec that you are offering, or will buy from abroad to save €10 euro.

    If a company like Dell, HP or Lenovo are not serving the market, the market is not economically viable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭massy086


    Solitaire wrote: »
    FYP :pac:

    Seriously though, anyone propagating that retarded "PC Photoshop is FAKE AND GAY!!11!" urban myth for (Steve Jobs') fun and profit can just get out now. I will not tolerate any of that "peasants aren't allowed to do Art/Media/Design/Sound Engineering because they're poor and smelly and Our Lord Steve Jobs said so" in this forum. Ever.
    right i did,nt get anthing you said there sol lol but ye 20-30 would be a joke it would be ok if you were getting the parts wholesale because you would be making profit on them too but thats not gona happen easy. i have alway,s thought if somewhere was to open up as a shop slash lan cafe that was well priced bringing in quality parts at just a little over the e-tailer,s and was well stocked well (no 9800gt card,s)walk in bring home, and then had a good eyefinity display in the window and offered a couple of gamming leavel pc,s to the market it would get the non geeky people into pc gaming too and you could then convert console funboys to some real gaming it might then earn you money. you could also do repairs to pc,s phone,s and console,s and some moddding of course to help pay the bill,s


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭smokiebeverage


    I won't mention the company name I work for, but we would build any machine to any spec. We build loads of office PCs and only add around 30e on, but you have to remember we will be spending 3 years getting paid to support these so its worth our while. Now if someone comes in and asks for a 'gaming pc' one of the lads will help them choose the parts (he's into the gaming thing) for their needs. If they buy the parts we'll build it for 25e but we won't install it and the warranty is with whoever they bought it off. If they want us to supply it and install it we need to charge 75e over the cost of the parts. Loads of small IT companies will do this for you if you ask. Why don't we advertise the service? because 'gaming machines' are a pain in the a$$ and just not worth the hassle of 'I have a virus, my game won't load etc etc' and when your local you don't want to go down the Dell line of you'll have to wipe and reinstall sir everytime there is a problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype


    massy086 wrote: »
    i have alway,s thought if somewhere was to open up as a shop slash lan cafe that was well priced bringing in quality parts at just a little over the e-tailer,s and was well stocked well (no 9800gt card,s)walk in bring home,

    You have to think about the pace at which prices change and new technology comes out. Graphics cards are about the fastest changing component and if you try to build up a stock, you'll have a self worth of junk in no time.
    ...then had a good eyefinity display in the window and offered a couple of gamming leavel pc,s to the market it would get the non geeky people into pc gaming too and you could then convert console funboys to some real gaming it might then earn you money....

    I would like to see PC and game shops flaunting the technology a bit more, but there's more profit in consoles so that probably won't happen for quite a while (maybe when the consoles have their second had market eliminated).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭Kinetic^


    Solitaire wrote: »
    FYP :pac:

    Seriously though, anyone propagating that retarded "PC Photoshop is FAKE AND GAY!!11!" urban myth for (Steve Jobs') fun and profit can just get out now. I will not tolerate any of that "peasants aren't allowed to do Art/Media/Design/Sound Engineering because they're poor and smelly and Our Lord Steve Jobs said so" in this forum. Ever.

    Want to hug it out? :p


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    :D:P

    Wasn't having a go at you :):p Just noticed your post seems to echo the common feeling that PCs are rubbish for design, based on nothing more than the fact that Macs come with a fancier screen :rolleyes::p The attitude has become really prevalent in third-level education where in most affected courses lecturers pretty much tell any student unable to afford a top-level MacBook Pro to basically "GTFO PEASANT SCUM!!!". AFAIK there are only two people on my sister's media course in DIT that have parents who earn less than ~€100k+ - and she of course is one of them :p So its an issue that's really close to my heart - its basically elitist social programming conducted by Jobs for fun and profit :eek::mad::mad:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,624 ✭✭✭✭Skerries


    are there any comparison charts out there comparing a Mac and a similarly priced pc or laptop?
    i know they used to do them years ago but haven't seen anything recently

    a pc with the new Intel and a good gfx would blow Macs performance out of the water i'd say


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭smokiebeverage


    Charts are pointless, they all use the same hardware now. Hence people build hackintosh machines!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,624 ✭✭✭✭Skerries


    ah but its how you use that hardware is the key


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    Skerries wrote: »
    are there any comparison charts out there comparing a Mac and a similarly priced pc or laptop?
    i know they used to do them years ago but haven't seen anything recently

    a pc with the new Intel and a good gfx would blow Macs performance out of the water i'd say

    http://static.frysforum.com/mi/74f3e5f0e6489842dfa2c854e4675c81-0-mac01.jpg

    Somewhat biased, but still.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    The only thing you really need to bridge the gap between a PC and a Mac (unless you've just been deprogrammed from their brainwashing and haven't re-learned how to use a real keyboard or mouse yet :o) is a shiny Super/Hyper IPS monitor. Decent 24" models can be found for under €500 on a good day, and even that doesn't bring a mid- or upper-tier workstation PC to anywhere near the price of a Mac Pro :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭brownej


    Solitaire wrote: »
    The only thing you really need to bridge the gap between a PC and a Mac (unless you've just been deprogrammed from their brainwashing and haven't re-learned how to use a real keyboard or mouse yet :o) is a shiny Super/Hyper IPS monitor. Decent 24" models can be found for under €500 on a good day, and even that doesn't bring a mid- or upper-tier workstation PC to anywhere near the price of a Mac Pro :p

    Mac pros aren't actually that much more expensive than workstations from other manufacturers. Mac pros cost €2500 Inc vat entry level wth a 2.8ghz xenon processor.
    http://store.apple.com/ie/configure/MC560B/A?mco=MTg2OTUwMjE
    Dell workstations start at €1600 ex vat with 2.26ghz xenon processors. Once you spec it up the costs are pretty much the same.
    http://ireland.dell.com/ie/en/business/Dell-Laptops/workstation-precision-t7500/pd.aspx?refid=workstation-precision-t7500&s=bsd&cs=iebsdt1

    And I though unjustified brand bashing was banned around here.

    Ps I don't use a Mac.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    brownej wrote: »
    Mac pros aren't actually that much more expensive than workstations from other manufacturers. Mac pros cost €2500 Inc vat entry level wth a 2.8ghz xenon processor.
    http://store.apple.com/ie/configure/MC560B/A?mco=MTg2OTUwMjE
    Dell workstations start at €1600 ex vat with 2.26ghz xenon processors. Once you spec it up the costs are pretty much the same.
    http://ireland.dell.com/ie/en/business/Dell-Laptops/workstation-precision-t7500/pd.aspx?refid=workstation-precision-t7500&s=bsd&cs=iebsdt1

    And I though unjustified brand bashing was banned around here.

    Ps I don't use a Mac.

    Cos Dell is overpriced ****e too in general so its a bad comparison.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭brownej


    deconduo wrote: »
    Cos Dell is overpriced ****e too in general so its a bad comparison.

    Every main stream high volume Computer manufacturer is overpriced on the high end...

    That wasn't my point.

    My point is that I though specific manufacturer bashing for the sake of it was banned.

    Ps HP is even more expensive than a mac pro.
    http://www.hpshop.ie/products.asp?partno=KK543EA%23ABU


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    There is a simple reason that there is no supplier of top notch gaming PCs for €20 Euro over component cost and that is economics. There is not enough demand to support such a business model.

    Even given a profit of €50 over component cost per machine, such a business would have to build 600 per year to support a €30,000 p.a. salary for one person. That is without any overheads.

    Lets add in a couple of very conservative basic costs:

    €10 for courier delivery.
    €5 for packaging.
    €5 for assembly consumables
    €10 for misc overheads, phone website, light, heat, biscuits, insurance

    Now our builder needs to churn out 1500 PCs a year to pay his own wages.

    Thats building and testing 6 full systems a day just to pay his own wage with no profits :-(

    Any that is assuming that you actually have a real market.

    Many of the people that want to buy a top-end PC for gaming, will build or upgrade their own. Or will want a different spec that you are offering, or will buy from abroad to save €10 euro.

    If a company like Dell, HP or Lenovo are not serving the market, the market is not economically viable.

    dunno what any of this malarky is based on??

    lets make it very simple

    hardwareversand sell components for pc's
    hardwareversand make even more money by offering to build a pc for 20 euros (the manual labour cost, no loss), thus encouraging people to buy _all_ their components at hws in one go (this is very important)

    hardwareversand make a profit on each component sold

    I think you kinda forgot the whole.. you know.. shop makes money on each part sold. Unless you thought I meant they sell them at cost price? ?)

    If komplett did this they would steal a lot of business from the other sites, Irish, homegrown, no doubt

    If they also offered a basic budget system (components plus labour) people would buy it because of many reasons, its not even necessary
    1. Its in Ireland
    2. Its actually cheap and affordable and will actually play games
    3. Its not from Germany
    4. They will buy a system that is recommended online
    5. Its not some dodgy thing from ebay

    If komplett offered 'higher' systems then _those_ purchasers tend to be the people who buy abroad, the more techie types, etc, etc, etc

    Offering a build like hardwareversand.de works. You just need a company with a slight bit of organisation.

    Coupled with that a budget build, that is actually good, works. Why.. show me one budget gaming system in Ireland right now?

    High end builds would not neccesarily work because options higher, people want too much diversity, know more, etc, hence one or two budget only models

    Check the number of "reads" on any post here for a PC, you have hundreds of nonrepliers getting sales advice here, we are all recommending hardwareversand, they are doing a huge amount of business just because of sites like this. Pity no Irish company is cashing in on this.

    I am not saying its the most awesome profitmaking thing in the world, but I am saying there is a market niche there.



    If komplett offered a build option they could benefit from this also

    wrote all this in 2 mins not time to flesh out but u get the idea


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Kinetic^ wrote: »
    Gaming machine - DIY
    Office PC - Dell/HP
    Design PC - Apple (it's not a PC :S)

    It's not feasible to build a machine for 20-30 euro, if you're suggesting this then you have no clue of how much costs business have.

    Insurance
    Rent
    Rates
    Wages
    Light/Heat
    Phone

    That's just the surface costs. Throw in thermal paste, cable ties, cable extenders and a few other things you might not think of.


    How do hardwareversand do it then? I work not far from there with a lot of Germans, we use a system taken from the Japanese, are we that highly crap and inefficient in Ireland that we can't do the same thing? I am not talking about setting up, I am talking about a current component company adopting it.

    One component Komplett style outlet can add a 40 euro building service and make a huge loss, another can add a 20 euro building service and sell a huge volume of components. Its more mentality than market conditions now really isn't it. We're not exactly in Madagascar, although some people make it out to be.

    People will pay more, a decent bit more to get something from Ireland rather than Germany, yet, as usual, this is where the cowboys step in and add in the rip-off factor
    There is that middle ground.. the market niche.

    Gaming machine - 75% of people have no clue and buy a lemon from ebay, something with no graphics from dell or hp, or get completely ripped off by some 'custom' pc site.. yes I've had 10 years experience of this. And yes, these are people from IT, people with comp sci degrees, huge nerds, and they still ask me if its "better than a geforce 3" and other such things. They want to buy Irish and keep it simple. Theres nothing I can recommend them here even though they want to spend the bit extra.

    The other 25% who are in the know end up not buying in Ireland anyway because ... they'll get it wherever its cheapest.. and the Oirish cannot compete with that because of shipping/location/supply/market size/etc (+ excuses)

    Office PC/design PC - i agree


    anywaaayy.... until that happens, these people plus all the hundreds who read the posts are gonna keep sending their cash to UK and Germany

    obviously I'd love to see it adopted in Ireland but the plastic ties and the biscuits you know.. too expensive loike :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Irish_Elect_Eng


    Jonny7 wrote: »

    People will pay more, a decent bit more to get something from Ireland rather than Germany....

    Unfortunately this is just not true.....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭el dude


    It's not just computer components where Irish companies aren't competing, it's pretty much anything and everything. I do quite a bit of online shopping and i think the only Irish company i buy from semi-regularly is justmedia.ie, because they are quick to deliver, and even then more often than not i'll use a German retailer.

    and why are Komplett being used an example of a company that could offer cheap gaming PC's? Have you seen the prices they charge?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    brownej wrote: »
    Every main stream high volume Computer manufacturer is overpriced on the high end...

    That wasn't my point.

    My point is that I though specific manufacturer bashing for the sake of it was banned.

    Ps HP is even more expensive than a mac pro.
    http://www.hpshop.ie/products.asp?partno=KK543EA%23ABU

    Yes because the love for high end Dell products etx like XPS, Alienware etc is so strong on this forum :rolleyes:

    Apple, dell and others get (rightly) bashed for doing stuff like charging 225 euro extra for a 3Gb memory upgrade which is probably actually worth an extra 40 tops (even allowing for it being ECC memory), or 150 euro to upgrade from a 1Tb to a 2TB, when the price difference between the two is probably 30 quid etc etc.

    By pointing this out as outrageous profiteering, how is that that maunfacturer bashing 'for the sake of it'?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭Kinetic^


    Solitaire wrote: »
    :D:P

    Wasn't having a go at you :):p Just noticed your post seems to echo the common feeling that PCs are rubbish for design, based on nothing more than the fact that Macs come with a fancier screen :rolleyes::p The attitude has become really prevalent in third-level education where in most affected courses lecturers pretty much tell any student unable to afford a top-level MacBook Pro to basically "GTFO PEASANT SCUM!!!". AFAIK there are only two people on my sister's media course in DIT that have parents who earn less than ~€100k+ - and she of course is one of them :p So its an issue that's really close to my heart - its basically elitist social programming conducted by Jobs for fun and profit :eek::mad::mad:

    I don't think they're rubbish for design at all but if you're going to be a part of that industry then you're more likely to be using mac than windows. Where's my hug? :p


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Why do all the businesses in that sector use Macs? Because Apple give bosses nice big Caribbean holidays worth €10,000 (Jobs or his partners in crime probably owning the cruise ship and resorts in question!) if they blew their IT budgets on ridiculosly overpriced Macs? I somehow suspect it might be something along those lines; it often is when it comes to purchasing decisions :rolleyes: Not because they're better, or cheaper, or more efficient. Because of corruption and kickbacks. And just as Apple intended this kicks off a chain-reaction that helpfully denies a lot of less priveliged students from working in the sector by killing their training/education. While also ramming an increasingly powerful and dangerous monopoly down society's collective throat.

    Microsoft and Intel scare me, especially when the latter in particular is acting the epic douche. Apple is unable to stop themselves acting the douche, and the power they've gained utterly terrifies me. These are not nice people we're dealing with - their company has its own internal secret police and security forces FFS :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 608 ✭✭✭t0mm13b


    Solitaire wrote: »

    Microsoft and Intel scare me, especially when the latter in particular is acting the epic douche. Apple is unable to stop themselves acting the douche, and the power they've gained utterly terrifies me. These are not nice people we're dealing with - their company has its own internal secret police and security forces FFS :eek:

    Where did you get that information from for the underlined? :P

    TBQH, Apple's policy towards devs is crap, hence would refuse to buy an Apple Mac - why get one, if you can buy perhaps 3 machines (good spec) for the price of one Apple... meh.... those fanbois are brainwashed into a Apple cult....


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Its actually well-known in tech circles. Google "Worldwide Loyalty Team" for a start ;)

    The whole point is that the firm operates in a total moral vacuum. No brainwashing, industrial sabotage or punitive measure against rivals or even their own is too underhanded or too overkill. And they expect an almost religious level of zealotry from their own employees or they're caughty out by the WLT and are sued on-the-spot for breach of contract and industrial sabotage, often resulting in lawsuits totalling millions being launched against individuals on an almost-everyday basis; its not even newsworthy anymore. Suicides are common, and a few got into the media and famously cast a cloud over the iPad launch.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    Just to note in regards profiteering by custom pc builders of one sort or another - that they get their kit at trade prices, much cheaper than your average or even discounted online prices. Prices for components go down further according to volume.
    So, done right, there's still profit to be made.
    Also, knew a trader myself operating out near Killiney some years back who traded with bigger traders in the UK in order to buy intel CPU's at even more discounts than he could himself from their HQ in Ireland, he would buy a thousand a time, the guys in the UK would buy tens of thousands. He also paid less overall at the time due to lower VAT rates and at one time also UK traders not charging Irish traders any VAT.
    Anyway, he sold top of the range CPU's to trade here at prices that were fantastically cheap, and still made a profit himself.

    Apart from all that, if you were building and selling on for profit and assuming you have a bit of charm about ye, there's nothing stopping you going directly to the component manufacturer yourself to get discounted trade price agreements. Not many would refuse potential business these days.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Which brings us back to the original issue: Gaming and many other specific requirements (poker, heavy workstations and HTPCs in particular) are simply too niche to avail of those bulk discounts. The main issue with Dell, HP et al is that they intentionally mismatch components to force you to overbuy in order to get the performance you need.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭Maj Malfunction


    Ah you got to love the Mac v PC argument. If you wear black polo-necks and round glasses you go and buy a Mac and join the I wanna be with the cool guys folk.

    If you want to get work done at a reasonable cost for heavy engineering you'll drop about €1200 on a decent enough PC, steering well clear of the overpriced workstations from the likes of Lenovo, Dell & HP which they are keen to peddle.

    When the students grow up and join the working world they'll realise soon enough that image is not important, however getting the job done on time and on budget is! If you still need to look cool, I'm sure your boss won't care if you spend your salary on Macbook Pro's but I'm sure the company will probably be using PC's because the are cheaper!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭AirsoftAndy


    i know that alot of irish websites rip u off but if u looked up some videos on youtube on how to build them urself and that skill comes in handy when the pc breaks when warrentys over and spend 50 instead of 200 euro in fixing it a good budget pc is here i just posted it http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056189753
    and on this website there are prebuilt kits which are really gud value and shipping doesnt go over 20 pound on a build


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