Is Irish a dead language?

RandomName2 wrote: »

If, as you say, the only thing keeping Gaeilge from 'dying' is its compulsory nature until the leaving Cert and the only way in which it can possibly grow is through full immersion schooling, then perhaps the kindest thing would be to let it... die, or at least the attempts at revival.

Having said that, even if you concede death, you need not necessarily abandon preservation.

Why? Studying Irish is benefical to peoples education. Very few people are opposed to learning Irish per sé
(Plenty of people dont like learning Irish in the current system, but thats why I have constantly advocated reform of that system)


As for full Immersion, This should be supported by the Government and allowed to expand in line with demand. Up til now the government has been very obstructive to Gaelscoileanna.(For some unknown reason)
Should they be allowed to grow naturally then the language will grow with them.

Hopefully FG will back up its promises and properly support the growth of this sector.

This is the responce I recieved from Michael Creed TD's adviser on the Issue of making Irish optional.

The Deputy understands that the obligatory status of the subject will only be removed after the entire subject is overhauled and verifiable results are to be seen. Then we will enter into consultation with all stakeholders on its status.

It seams that the plan to make Irish optional will come after Irish is reformed and results are seen. ie it wont be made optional in the near future.

I didnt want to study English or be forced to read shakespeare etc, would you also support that being optional too for the leaving cert?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I am fully in favor of Reform,FG intends to implement reform so there is no need to agitate for it.

That's nonsense. Nobody is "forced not to study history." Nobody is "forced not to study geography." They are free to study these subjects if they wish; the same thing will be true of Irish.

This is simply not true, Of the subjects I wanted to study for my Leaving cert, I only got to study 2, I wanted to do accounting but because of the timetable had to settle for Business studies. I wanted to do Physics but again the timetable forced me to do Ag Science.

You've never heard of the Language Freedom Movement of the 1960s, then?

Can we please try to stay in the modern world? What bearing has the 60's on attuides to the language today?

And when it is proposed that this "massively positive" sentiment be put to the test by allowing people to choose whether they do Irish for the Leaving Cert, the gaelgoir brigade takes to the streets in fear that the language will die out if the state does not continue compulsorily to shove it down people's throats. How ironic.

There is a list of reasons why people will not choose Irish even if it is something they would like to learn, But feel free to ignore this as it dosent suit your argument.:rolleyes:

Leto wrote: »

Confusion abounds. If I have time later I might go hunting for an actual policy document rather than relying on secondary sources...

FG Manifesto:

Fine Gael is strongly committed to the development of the Irish language and the Gaeltacht regions. We recognise the value and cultural importance of our Irish tradition and heritage and we are determined to ensure the language and the Gaeltacht regions survive and prosper.National Strategy: We are supportive of many aspects of the twenty year strategy for the future of the Irish language and will deliver on the achievable goals and targets proposed.Education: Fine Gael supports the continued development of Gaelscoileanna and recognises the significant role the Gaelscoil movement has played in reviving the Irish language within and outside Gaeltacht areas. We will also work with Coláisí Samhraidh to attract greater numbers to the Gaeltacht.We are committed to overhauling the way in which Irish is taught at primary and second levels of education, to ensure teachers are equipped with the right tools to instil a love of the language for all students and the curriculum is designed to inspire students to continue speaking the language after leaving school. We believe that reinventing the way we teach Irish will encourage more students to study the language and engage with it beyond the school system. We believe compulsion has not fostered growth or commitment to the language. We will overhaul the curriculum at second level and we will critically examine the effect of current training methods of teachers to teach. Irish as an optional subject for Leaving Certificate will only apply following consultations on both matters.We will allocate 50% of marks to oral Irish exams.A study on a double curriculum to Leaving Cert will be investigated, one on the current system and a second in communicating Irish. The questions of extra points for third level entry will be investigated.Fine Gael will double the proportion of Irish students sitting the Higher Level Leaving Certificate exam by 2018.Job Creation in Gaeltacht Regions: Our NewERA and Working for Our Future plans will deliver new job creation prospects to Gaeltacht regions. We will invest in energy, broadband and water infrastructure, creating the modern infrastructure needed to attract and support new businesses and jobs. We will also strongly support the potential for jobs in tourism and marine activities.National Proficiency Scale: We will investigate the development of a national proficiency scale for the Irish language. This ten point scale would allow every citizen to have their competence assessed and use modern teaching methods and modern technology to gradually improve their proficiency at a pace that suits themselves.Islands: We are committed to sustaining communities on the islands and will work to improve access to vital services for the islands so that island communities have appropriate access to health care and other social services.Official Languages Act: Fine Gael will review the obligations under the Official Languages Act to ensure expenditure on the language is best targeted towards the development of the language.An GhaeilgeTá Fine Gael go láidir ar son forbairt na Gaeilge agus na gceantracha Gaeltachta.Aithnímid luach agus tábhacht cultúrtha ár dtraidisiúin Ghaelaigh agus ár n-oidhreachta agus táimid diongbháilte go bhfuilimid chun a chinntiú go mairfidh agus go mbeidh borradh ar an teanga agus ar na ceantracha Gaeltachta.Straitéis Náisiúnta: Táimid ag tacú le mórán gnéithe den straitéis fiche bliain do thodhchaí na Gaeilge agus tabharfaimid i gcrích na spriocanna gur féidir agus na haidhmeanna atá curtha chun tosaigh.Oideachas: Tacaíonn Fine Gael le forbairt leanúnach na nGaelscoileanna agus aithníonn sé an ról suntasach atá ag gluaiseacht na nGaelscoileanna in athbheochaint na Gaeilge taobh istigh agus taobh amuigh dena ceantracha Gaeltachta. Chomh maith le sin, oibreoimid lena Coláistí Samhraidh chun níos mó scoláirí a mhealladh go dtí an Ghaeltacht.





Now, It seams to me that this suggests that FG intend to make Irish optional after a Consultation,

However Deputy Creed assures me that the Subject will be reformed first, while it is still compulsory, and then there will be discussion on making it optional with the various stakeholders after verifaible results are seen.

This post has been deleted.

This post has been deleted.

This post has been deleted.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Sorry, but 'Fascistic' hardly applys to Ireland in the 30's By comparrision to most countries in Europe, Ireland was not facistic at all.
But feel free to keep up the name calling regardless of facts, they do your arguments justice.:rolleyes:

Classic wording. Maybe the Deputy misunderstands.

"We have turned a corner." Sound familiar?

I think Depuity Creed has a fairly accurate picture of the Situation, More so than you and your 'Freedom Movement' anyway.:)

RTE.ie

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said that his party is to conduct an 'audit' of the curriculum and the structure of the curriculum and that the proposed policy will not be implemented until after the completion of such an audit.

The party also propose to examine the points structure for Irish in the leaving and plan to look at introducing a new subject ' Gaeilge agus Cumarsáid', according to Mr Kenny.

The second Bit is even more interesting if you ask me, As it relates closly to the reforms proposed by CnaG.
That is, Irish should be split into two subjects.

CnaG

Go bhforbrófaí dhá shiollabas don Ghaeilge ag an dara leibhéal le dhá pháipéar scrúdaithe ar leith don Ardteist agus don Teastas Sóisearach, Teanga na Gaeilge a mhúinfí do gach mac léinn agus Litríocht na Gaeilge le déanamh ag gach mac léinn ardleibhéil.

For 'Teanga na Gaeilge' see 'Gaeilge agus Cumarsáid'

This post has been deleted.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

More name calling, keep it up, You are doing your argument wounders, LOL.:rolleyes:

Nice crystal ball you have there. Surely you should be buzy predicting the Lotto results or something?

Who exactly will celebrate? The population who time and again support the language? I dont think so.



I deduce that it wont be for a generation or two because that is what a member of th FG parlimentary Party has written on His Personal Website. You can claim that he is lying, but you would look a fool.



You opinion is in the vast minority, accept that and move on with your life.


Ar aon nós, Slán libh. Táim ag dul abhaile.:)

deise go deo wrote: »

Thats not true Cyclopath, Try to keep up:rolleyes:

It is indeed true, you and your mates in CnaG want to restore or reinstate a language that was, in the past the common language here. The words 'restore' and 'reinstate', are your own translation and mean, 'to go back'.

deise go deo wrote: »

If the best argument you can come up with against promoting the Irish language is that we are trying to 'restore the past'

I see nothing nothing wrong with promoting the Irish language as long as you use your own money and don't force others to speak it against their will.

I find it very strange that you ignore the gaeltachtanna (being totally unaware of an important report on the decline of Irish there), you dismiss the Church (part of our heritage), you say de Valera (a huge fan of Irish) is not relevant in 2011 and yet you passionately want to restore a version of Irish as Ireland's common language, to be spoken by everyone.