So, the Leaders Debate (II) is Over, who won

15-02-2011 12:06AM

RTE should be sold off - they said Martin won LOL

Headshot · 15-02-2011 12:06AM

nesf wrote: »

It's perfectly possible for someone to think Martin won the vote while not having any intention to give a vote to FF you know.

that's true but I thought this thread was about who won the over all debate. He just won or lost his mini battle

SmurfX · 15-02-2011 12:09AM

Seems a lot of agendas are going on here in the voting. It'd hard to be unbiased and not accept Gormley "won" this and by some margin. He was the most direct in answering the actual questions, took the fewest unnecessary swipes at the opposition, gave informative details on his policies and was generally gentlemanly and polite when dealing with other candidates.

Beyond belief how anyone could vote for anyone else in the context of this poll.

pauldry · 15-02-2011 12:12AM

John Gormley - good honest opinions and spoke in peoples language 9/10

Eamon Gilmore - Put some good points across at times but tends to shout a bit and say THe Labour Party in Gov-R Mnt would a lot 7/10

Enda Kenny - A times couldnt get his point across and kept repeating his 5 point plan but at least as he said his party have a plan. 8/10

Michael Martin - Thought was doing very well until he lost the cool with Gerry 7.5/10

Gerry Adams - Again like John spoke in laymans language but I thought he was getting a bit lecture like at the end 8/10

Points very generous I know and I would probably put Gerry slightly ahead of Enda but I think the 3 main parties all pretty much cancelled each other out.

nesf · 15-02-2011 12:13AM

Headshot wrote: »

that's true but I thought this thread was about who won the over all debate. He just won or lost his mini battle

Sorry, I misposted, should have read "won the debate" not "won the vote."

ilovesleep · 15-02-2011 12:14AM

SmurfX wrote: »

Seems a lot of agendas are going on here in the voting. It'd hard to be unbiased and not accept Gormley "won" this and by some margin. He was the most direct in answering the actual questions, took the fewest unnecessary swipes at the opposition, gave informative details on his policies and was generally gentlemanly and polite when dealing with other candidates.

Beyond belief how anyone could vote for anyone else in the context of this poll.

+1 to this.

PeterIanStaker · 15-02-2011 12:15AM

Inda "won" in the sense that his head didnt explode.

pauldry · 15-02-2011 12:16AM

The only true poll will be on 25th February. Debates are claptrap Rip Van Winkle style as Eamon would say

dharn · 15-02-2011 12:27AM

enda kenny did very well

the groutch · 15-02-2011 12:31AM

can we add the MILF from cork in the audience to that poll?

Birdnuts · 15-02-2011 12:35AM

Deleted User wrote: »

RTE should be sold off - they said Martin won LOL

Yep - I'm against privitisation but I'd sell FF TV in the morning:mad:

1)Much as it pains me Kenny probably just came out ahead for the very fact that he didn't have any major screwups - a measure of how low the bar is set for him

2)Adams much better then 07' and connected well with the small man

3)Gormley spoke well, pity he didn't do the business in government

4)Gilmore - another worryingly poor performance, needs to kick ass in the next one

5) Martin: Nausiating as usual and his attack on Admans shows what a dirty hypocritical shower FF are!!

nkay1985 · 15-02-2011 12:52AM

The only way this will be judged is relative to expectations.

Expectations of Kenny were very low given the over-riding public opinion of his oratory skills. He put in a fairly solid performance, without any major errors. That's all he had to do. He wasn't amazing or anything and did sound a little scripted but that's way better than 2007 and lots of other media performances.

The other side of that coin is Gilmore. He's built a reputation over the past few years as a good public speaker. His performance tonight was below par for him. Couple that with the reaction from the first debate and I think these debates will have put a serious dent in Labour's campaign.

Martin did ok. He got pulled up almost every time by Kenny, Gilmore and Adams when he tried to suggest reforms and changes that were essential with them countering that he's been in power for so long but only now are these reforms needed. Very difficult for him to excel with that happening. Also thought he didn't gain a whole lot from continually trying to bash Adams. Once the point was made, he should have left it at that IMO and gone after FG.

Expectations of Adams were quite low after 2007 so tonight has to be judged positively. He started very well and was even ok past the hlafway point but repeating the same stock phrases wasn't a good idea. He spoke forcefully at some points and played the "rise above the shouting and roaring" card which was good. Overall, he didn't set the world alight but relative to expectations he did ok and won't have done serious damage.

The biggest winner on the night for me was Gormley. I can't remember him making and obvious mistakes and he spoke well every time he was called upon. Didn't engage in any arguing and pushed the Green agenda which nobody else was touching. Managed to escape any attacks, probably due to the fact that they're most likely already down at their core percentage so there's no votes to be had by going after him. Got an easy ride because of that and was able to play his own game. He was the winner in my opinion.

I think it worked out like this in terms of who gained and lost the most from it:
1) Gormley
2) Kenny
T3) Adams and Martin
5) Gilmore

spiralism · 15-02-2011 01:11AM

Enda was clearly the winner imo. He dealt with it brilliantly, looked relaxed and assured and slipped into the background a bit at times, letting the other parties go at each other, all the while calmly and effectively dealing with the questions asked him.

Imo he actually had the look of Taoiseach-elect tonight

Adams wasn't too bad, he's clearly got a bit to learn still about politics down here but he was far better than a few years ago and gave the impression of connecting with the "man on the street", so to speak. While his figures clearly do not add up, SF are not going to be in Government so the point is moot. Could be quite effective in opposition once he gets more of a handle on southern politics

Gormley came across pretty well but it all seemed pretty inconsequential tbh, everyone knows they're facing near if not total obliteration in the polls

Gilmore was worryingly shaky, the pressure of being the party leader with the most to lose in any of the debates has started to get to him it would seem

Martin did well considering the position FF are in but the attack on Adams not only went a bit far, it made him look a bit desperate to score points imo. His terrier approach to the debates is understandable given that he's essentially backed into a corner but a FF leader vigorously attacking other parties' policies when theirs are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in is a tad hypocritical imo

Permabear · 15-02-2011 01:15AM

This post has been deleted.

Duckworth_Luas · 15-02-2011 01:16AM

Why are Fianna Fáil allowed to partake in the remaining leaders debates? In the past the main debates were always between the two biggest parties, with the minor party leaders excluded. We only have two credible candidates for Taoiseach, Kenny and Gilmore. Surely FF should be excluded the way Labour were in the past. Martin's performance tonight showed that we're not going to miss any insightful political analysis anyway.

nialldabass · 15-02-2011 01:20AM

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Why are Fianna Fáil allowed to partake in the remaining leaders debates? In the past the main debates were always between the two biggest parties, with the minor party leaders excluded. We only have two credible candidates for Taoiseach, Kenny and Gilmore. Surely FF should be excluded the way Labour were in the past. Martin's performance tonight showed that we're not going to miss any insightful political analysis anyway.

Take alook at the poll above, don't you mean Kenny and Adams?:P

Wolfe Tone · 15-02-2011 01:21AM

Gormly won I think(although is that just because he was so surprising when compared to his usual fare?), Adams a close second in my mind.

Duckworth_Luas · 15-02-2011 01:27AM

nialldabass wrote: »

Take alook at the poll above, don't you mean Kenny and Adams?:P

To be fair, according to all the polls, Adams has as much right to be there as Martin. MM is a total charlatan.

Permabear · 15-02-2011 01:32AM

This post has been deleted.

Rubik. · 15-02-2011 01:37AM

Who you think won or lost is very subjective, you are more likely to look favourably on the person whose party you're more inclined to support. I thought Gilmore did fine, the majority here seem to disagree, but I was always going to vote for labour - so maybe I was blinkered.

Davypat · 15-02-2011 01:41AM

Winners or losers not in this debate. But it's a pity when you nothing else to add to descend to insults.And dismissing G. Adams because of where he comes from is low! He is an Irishman still.

southsiderosie · 15-02-2011 01:44AM

Rubik. wrote: »

Who you think won or lost is very subjective, you are more likely to look favourably on the person whose party you're more inclined to support. I thought Gilmore did fine, the majority here seem to disagree, but I was always going to vote for labour - so maybe I was blinkered.

I think it was just expectations. I've never really heard any of these guys bar Adams speak, and I thought Kenny was really bad - but people keep assuring me that he was light years ahead of where he was in 2007. I didn't think Gilmore was bad, but he didn't light the world on fire, which is what I think some people thought he would do.

I have to say, I was really pleasantly surprised by John Gormley. For someone who has been so disastrous and naive in government, he came across as very reasonable and knowledgeable, and willing to work collaboratively with other parties. Where has this person been all of this time? Out of the five, he seemed the most statesman-like.

If the Greens had sat out of government the last go-round, and had not totally discredited themselves in the eyes of much of the voting public over the last three years, I think they would have gotten a HUGE bounce out of his performance tonight.

spiralism · 15-02-2011 01:48AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

If the Greens had sat out of government the last go-round, and had not totally discredited themselves in the eyes of much of the voting public over the last three years, I think they would have gotten a HUGE bounce out of his performance tonight.

Probably, but they did not and it seems inconsequential as a result. The Green Party will be doing very well to exist as a political entity at the end of this year tbh

Anonymous1987 · 15-02-2011 01:52AM

I have to say I was impressed by Gormley, a voice of reason among the bickering with, it would seem, sound realism and some genuine proposals for reform of government.

I felt Kenny stumbled when challenged by Gilmore on his economic projections but overall I felt he performed in excess of my expectations whereas Gilmore didn't live up to the expectations of his previous popularity in polls with no notable performance on any issue.

Martin gave a somewhat mediocre performance and was rather hostile, his comments to Adams in particular seemed to indicate to me that Fianna Fail feel threatened on the left by Sinn Fein. Nevertheless his policy arguments where somewhat strong particularity with regard to jobs, the only party leader from what I recall to recognise that the only sustainable jobs plan is to create an effective entrepreneurial environment rather than "stimulus".

Adams as expected promised unachievable populism with a painless recovery while at the same time banishing the IMF and conveniently ignoring the crisis in the financial system.

1. Gormley
2. Kenny
3. Martin
4. Gilmore
5. Adams

skelliser · 15-02-2011 02:03AM

If anyone was in any doubt about RTE's pro FF leanings then tonights eleventh hour put that to bed.

They had Martin as the winner ffs!!

On every poll here, on p.ie, on the journal.ie and the irish times tracker has Kenny the outright winner with Martin coming in near the bottom.

A disgraceful show!

The Raven. · 15-02-2011 02:05AM

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

In all seriousness, I don't buy into this notion that debates are "won", nor do I think debates should be held to be won.

I couldn't agree more. I would have thought that the purpose of a debate was to thrash out ideas and, in this case, to give the voters a chance to hear the would-be leaders explaining their policies etc.- not a boxing match.

However, I have voted for Kenny this time as I though he handled the debate very well. I don't agree with all his policies but he is a lot smarter than people give him credit. I would have liked Gilmore to do better but I have to be honest - he doesn't come across well in debates. He is much better in the Dail.

On another note, I was looking up the word 'debater' in the Dictionary.com, because I'm tired and it looked wrong. Have a look at what appeared at the top. I think Big Brother is watching me :eek:!!

ArtSmart · 15-02-2011 02:10AM

skelliser wrote: »

If anyone was in any doubt about RTE's pro FF leanings then tonights eleventh hour put that to bed.

They had Martin as the winner ffs!!

On every poll here, on p.ie, on the journal.ie and the irish times tracker has Kenny the outright winner with Martin coming in near the bottom.

A disgraceful show!

my strong impression was a pro, very pro FG support from the panel. adelight that bell-enda didnt muck up.

ETA bedtime for me, wrecked. more tomo.:)

bernardo mac · 15-02-2011 02:20AM

I think Eamonn Gilmore is tired.And I'm sure there are many who are weary of it all too.Hard to see any great surge of patriotic fervour being stirred up by the parties or candidates.

Sergeant · 15-02-2011 02:30AM

Just watched this on the RTE player.

Gormley came across very well, he was honest and he didn't waffle about his time in Government like Meehole did. I'm beginning to become a revisionist when it comes to the Greens, and their period in Government.

I was reaching for the sick bucket with Adam's discussing the virtues of the Republic, when he intends to sit beside a man who met the killers of one of our defenders of the same Republic as they were released from prison. But hey, I'm old-fashioned that way.

I think the significance of these debates are massively overstated. That said, Kenny had the most to lose, and he performed much better than I expected.

bernardo mac · 15-02-2011 02:31AM

... But Gormley did speak well

So, the Leaders Debate (II) is Over, who won

Comments