So, the Leaders Debate (II) is Over, who won

RachaelVO · 14-02-2011 11:07PM #1

So who do you think, between the 5 leaders won. They were all a bit reticent, but I can't decide who I think did better. What does everyone else think? and Why?

TouchingVirus · 14-02-2011 11:09PM

I think we should stick to the one thread anyways

Dont be at yourself · 14-02-2011 11:09PM

Can we add a poll?

I wouldn't be inclined to give the Greens a preference, but I thought Gormley spoke very well.

nesf · 14-02-2011 11:09PM

Gormley did I think but it doesn't matter the Greens will be decimated at the polls. Of the others I think Enda did best but suffered from coming across far too scripted, Martin did well enough but FF are too hated for him to make much headway, Gilmore did poorly I thought after a fairly good start and a good performance on the housing/mortgage question and Adams just played the populist card too much talking too much about what the problems are and giving too little time to what his solutions would be.

Eliot Rosewater · 14-02-2011 11:10PM

My cat. Kenny's voice soothed her into a lovely slumber.

In all seriousness, I don't buy into this notion that debates are "won", nor do I think debates should be held to be won.

/narkiness

Morag · 14-02-2011 11:11PM

Why is this in parenting?

Johnny_the_fox · 14-02-2011 11:11PM

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Can we add a poll?

I wouldn't be inclined to give the Greens a preference, but I thought Gormley spoke very well.

Gormley was surprisingly good.

nesf · 14-02-2011 11:12PM

Sharrow wrote: »

Why is this in parenting?

It was very briefly put in Parenting by me so I could add a poll to the thread. I then moved the thread back into the General Election forum.

Unfortunately moving a thread out of the Politics category and back in again is the only way I can add a poll to a thread.

nesf · 14-02-2011 11:14PM

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Can we add a poll?

Yup, this is worthy of a poll I think.

Eliot Rosewater · 14-02-2011 11:14PM

nesf wrote: »

It was very briefly put in Parenting by me so I could add a poll to the thread. I then moved the thread back into the General Election forum.

You neglected to put in the options "The Irish People", "Irish Politics" and "Vincent Browne". :P

TouchingVirus · 14-02-2011 11:15PM

Sharrow wrote: »

Why is this in parenting?

It isn't. At least my first reply was in Politics 2 mins after the thread was made.

For what it's worth:

Gormley gave a strong performance but I still think it's too little too late - where was this performance for the last 3+ years? This critical thinking?

Enda was fantastic at sticking to the script, determined not to muck it up this time but he suffered for it.

Adams has some points, but too bad they're going to be outshined by the fact that most of it was populist fluff.

Martin got slaughtered a bit and suffered by the fact there were 4 other speakers and didn't seem to get enough time.

Gilmore was weak, not the weakest but definitely weak. I don't think he'll make a good Taoiseach anyways.

There was no clear winner, I agree with Eliot, I don't think this debate was there to be won

RachaelVO · 14-02-2011 11:16PM

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

My cat. Kenny's voice soothed her into a lovely slumber.

In all seriousness, I don't buy into this notion that debates are "won", nor do I think debates should be held to be won.

/narkiness

I disagree! Someone has to be able to win a discussion, and show, in this instance who will represent the country on the international stage, and who can ensure that in negotiations (whether EU/IMF or otherwise), can hold their own!

nesf · 14-02-2011 11:16PM

TouchingVirus wrote: »

It isn't. At least my first reply was in Politics 2 mins after the thread was made.

It was in Parenting for a few minutes while I added a poll to the thread. That was when the poster posted.

Morag · 14-02-2011 11:17PM

nesf wrote: »

It was very briefly put in Parenting by me so I could add a poll to the thread. I then moved the thread back into the General Election forum.

Unfortunately moving a thread out of the Politics category and back in again is the only way I can add a poll to a thread.

Werid, I tought I was seeing things when it moved again

Headshot · 14-02-2011 11:20PM

Gormley came across pretty well, seemed to me anyway that he said it like it is

Joan Burton put me off voting for Labour but after this debate (I shouldnt call it a debate because it was awful) I might change my mind

Also thought Kenny did a grand job to, he looking relaxed and in control

johngalway · 14-02-2011 11:22PM

Thought Enda done well, despite all the haters having their voodoo dolls out for him tonight.

wicklowwitch · 14-02-2011 11:23PM

Enda Kenny was much better than any one thought he would, he was a clear winner.

CoalBucket · 14-02-2011 11:24PM

If was a bit of a joke tbh. Are we looking for a good debater or a leader. The leader is only as strong as their policies not a performance on a tv show.

I don't think anybody will be voting on the strength of these debates. If they are I fear for the country.

If people want the country to progress out of the situation we are in they should look at the parties policies and vote accordingly.

_Whimsical_ · 14-02-2011 11:24PM

Headshot wrote: »

Gormley came across pretty well, seemed to me anyway that he said it like it is
l

Agree. I felt he came across as one of the few willing to put the country first. I was surprised to like him as he hadn't really impressed me before.

I thought Enda was good but very much benefited from the low expectations and the 5 speaker format. No one got to tackle him in depth.

I thought Micheal Martin was the best debater.

Sponge Bob · 14-02-2011 11:26PM

This was there to lose rather than win, on a sliding scale.

Gilmore lost most, no targets hit. target selection crap.
Martin lost second most , too many targets to select and his target selection was erratic. He will do much better on TG4 with fewer targets to fire at.
Adams lost third most, but did a lot better than his utterly awful performance in 2007, won no floating votes and lost no votes to Labour
Gormley did surprisingly well on all issues ...but too late for him and he voted for a lot of this crap iin government.
Kenny did very well because the spin doctors expected him to be drab and flat and he wasn't as bad as expected.

So Kenny wins by not losing as much as expected and Nobody WON so I refuse to vote

loldog · 14-02-2011 11:45PM

If debates actually meant anything, Al Gore would have been President.

.

Headshot · 14-02-2011 11:47PM

loldog wrote: »

If debates actually meant anything, Al Gore would have been President.

.

super serial

ilovesleep · 14-02-2011 11:47PM

Pat Kenny won

CoalBucket wrote: »

If was a bit of a joke tbh. Are we looking for a good debater or a leader. The leader is only as strong as their policies not a performance on a tv show.

I don't think anybody will be voting on the strength of these debates. If they are I fear for the country.

If people want the country to progress out of the situation we are in they should look at the parties policies and vote accordingly.

Except for FF policies since they have failed to implement past policies and fcuked up the country while they were at it.

Headshot · 14-02-2011 11:48PM

Can I ask one of the 13 people who voted for FF, what the **** are you thinking

All he did during the show was bash adams

Mr.Micro · 14-02-2011 11:53PM

Headshot wrote: »

Can I ask one of the 13 people who voted for FF, what the **** are you thinking

All he did during the show was bash adams

Martin has FA credibility and getting at Adams was because he is afraid FF will finish in fifth place.

Blush_01 · 14-02-2011 11:55PM

CoalBucket wrote: »

If was a bit of a joke tbh. Are we looking for a good debater or a leader. The leader is only as strong as their policies not a performance on a tv show.

I disagree completely with this statement.

Any leader of a large organisation has to be a good communicator. They might personally have absolutely brutal policies, but that's what they have advisors and committees for - to advise them, make the decisions and let them present the conclusions.

We need a figurehead. We need a strong leader, who will portray Ireland as a nation fighting to right things, rather than lying down and taking it. That leader need not be the person doing the fighting, but both nationally and internationally that person needs to be seen to be someone who can get things done.

It would be different if we were contemplating electing an independent as Taoiseach - in that case the individual's policies and methods would be vitally important public knowledge. In Irish party politics, however, the party line is what matters. The party policies are not made by the leaders, they are simply enforced by them. Perhaps enforced is the wrong word, but it gets my point across.

I haven't see the debate yet - no tv, but I look forward to actually seeing it, because running commentary from friends on FB would have me believe that Martin and Adams came across better than expected tonight, but Gilmore got lost in the flow of things.

Headshot · 14-02-2011 11:56PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Martin has FA credibility and getting at Adams was because he is afraid FF will finish in fifth place.

I said the same thing in another thread

Its sad to see 14 people voting for him anway, you have to think should these people be allowed to vote

flash1080 · 14-02-2011 11:57PM

CoalBucket wrote: »

If was a bit of a joke tbh. Are we looking for a good debater or a leader. The leader is only as strong as their policies not a performance on a tv show.

I don't think anybody will be voting on the strength of these debates. If they are I fear for the country.

If people want the country to progress out of the situation we are in they should look at the parties policies and vote accordingly.

+1. In relation to FG & Labours plans for the health service, will they be fully implemented within the lifetime of the next government or within ten years? Or never? How are they planning on getting the money?

Sibylla · 15-02-2011 12:01AM

I think Enda Kenny did the best job. Gilmore probably damaged his chances of gaining some undecieded votes. It's impossiblto listen to Martin and Gormley with an open mind after what they have done to the country. I can see FG gaining a majority vote.

15-02-2011 12:05AM

I thought Gilmore came across well, as did Kenny. On balance, as kenny had most to lose if he messed up and his pedigree is less than fantastic in terms of communicating with any kind of passion, he probably came out of it best overall.

I had to laugh at Adams making policy promises that he knows he'll never have to keep to the low paid, disenfranchised man in the street. He'll never be in power, and he knows it. His strategy is to just steal as many votes from the major parties as possible. Martin knew it too, and was trying his best to sabotage him at every turn.

nesf · 15-02-2011 12:05AM

Headshot wrote: »

I said the same thing in another thread

Its sad to see 14 people voting for him anway, you have to think should these people be allowed to vote

It's perfectly possible for someone to think Martin won the vote while not having any intention to give a vote to FF you know.

So, the Leaders Debate (II) is Over, who won

Who won the debate? 370 votes

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