anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

Xclusiv Barber · 09-02-2011 09:55PM

Have to go, just as its getting interesting. To be continued chaps...

Pete_Cavan · 09-02-2011 09:57PM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

OK.... a few folks are asking me if SF have any plans to burn the lenders who lend us money to service the country ...... Long story short is no.
SF do not have any plans to default on any loans taken out that are our own Sovereign debt, and this is the reason, the bond holders will still lend to us .... But i read a few comments from "pay for the failed bank debts" parties, asking and stating that we will not get any money in the future ..... think about this ....
If i owe you 90 euro, and i am asking you for a lend of 16-18 euro with the clear promise ... and demonstrated record of ALAWYS paying the interest i owe to you , will you not continue to lend to me ?
and i know that someone is going to ask about the bank debt, and the money owed on it.... let me say this to you....
I owe you 90 euro, i pay you the interest on that 90 euro every 3 months (never missing a payment)... one night i am out on the p*ss with you and while I am very very drunk on FF p*ss water, i tell you that i will also pay the debts belonging to my friend (my friend is in the army and goes by the name private banks) and that private Banks doesnt have to pay you any more of the money he owes you back .... would you really expect me to pay his debts to you when i sober up (get off the FF sauce so to speak).... Really, would you expect it? Now, if you saw me out on the sauce again with private banks and you saw me lending him more money on top of what he already owes you .... then you would in reality start charging me a higher rate of interest on the 90 euro, as you would be scared out of your pants that i am becoming an alco like my friend private banks (addicted to credit/craic as well)....
Now ... i sober up and i go to you open an honest, after sobering up, i tell you straight faced... i will never hang around with private banks, i will not drink like that again, and in fact, i am going to reduce my spending on a yearly basis, would you not respect me more??? Would you not say to yourself, "At last the stupid fecker is seeing sense" and that i am a stalwart business partner again???

I have told you several times that Iceland separated sovereign debt from bank loans and defaulted on the bank loans, yet the bond markets would not lend to them and therefore had to be bailed out. This is where the whole SF plan falls flat on its stupid face. Unless Pearse Doherty has an air tight contract signed with those who buy national bonds that they will buy Irish bonds if we default on bank debt then he and SF can f*ck off.

Cal_Egle · 09-02-2011 10:04PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Nothing in there recommending defaulting on bank debt and rejecting the IMF bailout. One article does say "the government should wind down existing banks in a “bad bank," while moving their deposit base and profitable businesses into new, well-capitalized banks" which is what FG, and AFAIK Lab, want to do. Nowhere is it suggested that SFs plan would work. As already pointed out to you, Iceland proves it wont.

Pete the RTE news said tonight "The IMF isnot happy with the burden of banking debt on the Irish people" ..... just watch the news and open your eyes and ears ... you need to see what is going on ....

Cal_Egle · 09-02-2011 10:10PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I have told you several times that Iceland separated sovereign debt from bank loans and defaulted on the bank loans, yet the bond markets would not lend to them and therefore had to be bailed out. This is where the whole SF plan falls flat on its stupid face. Unless Pearse Doherty has an air tight contract signed with those who buy national bonds that they will buy Irish bonds if we default on bank debt then he and SF can f*ck off.

Again Pete, please dont get upset ... the truth is hard to take, when you have spent your whole life trusting one established party or another.. it must be doubly upsetting to hear that the only party with a long term view is SF .... you seem to think that i am a SF supporter ... i am not... but i know what is right and what is wrong for me as a citizen of this country and i am lucky i have a good job... and i want to protect that job...
Going with the other parties ... we are sincerely risking our low corporate tax rate (The French have made no bones about it, they want to link the loan, to changing the Irish corporate tax rate). I will not vote for any party that is willing to even engage in this discussion with the French. They were cute enough to jack up the interest rate on the loan in the first place... knowing that at 5.8% we have not one hope in hell of ever paying the money back beyond 2013. They know they can then dictate to us that we must change our corporate tax rate.
Please, when you respond to me, try your best not to use personal directed profanities in your answers to my responses.;)

Pete_Cavan · 09-02-2011 10:52PM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Again Pete, please dont get upset ...

First of all, stop being such a partonising sh*t.

Cal_Egle wrote: »

the truth is hard to take, when you have spent your whole life trusting one established party or another.. it must be doubly upsetting to hear that the only party with a long term view is SF .... you seem to think that i am a SF supporter ... i am not... but i know what is right and what is wrong for me as a citizen of this country and i am lucky i have a good job... and i want to protect that job...
Going with the other parties ... we are sincerely risking our low corporate tax rate (The French have made no bones about it, they want to link the loan, to changing the Irish corporate tax rate). I will not vote for any party that is willing to even engage in this discussion with the French. They were cute enough to jack up the interest rate on the loan in the first place... knowing that at 5.8% we have not one hope in hell of ever paying the money back beyond 2013. They know they can then dictate to us that we must change our corporate tax rate.
Please, when you respond to me, try your best not to use personal directed profanities in your answers to my responses.;)

Before the bailout, yields on Irish government bonds were over 8%. We are better off with the bailout money at 5.8% than selling government bonds at more than 8%. Dont say that letting banks fail will see bond rates drop, it didnt work for Iceland and it wont work for us.

Tipp Man · 09-02-2011 10:53PM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Again Pete, please dont get upset ... the truth is hard to take, when you have spent your whole life trusting one established party or another.. it must be doubly upsetting to hear that the only party with a long term view is SF ....

Whats with the smugness??

you still haven't supplied any numbers for your 200billion assertion and a whole host of other questions which you have skipped past

colly10 · 09-02-2011 10:53PM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Going with the other parties ... we are sincerely risking our low corporate tax rate (The French have made no bones about it, they want to link the loan, to changing the Irish corporate tax rate).

Sinn Fein are the only party i've heard in recent years who suggested increasing it (and it's not that they were forced to or could justify the benefits, it was only to benefit the North - screwing the South over in the process)

If they suggested that before for no good reason or no pressure then it's obviously not a very important issue to them, if it was they wouldn't have suggested increasing it. So for obvious reasons they would be the very last party I would trust when it comes to corporation tax

Tipp Man · 09-02-2011 10:55PM

colly10 wrote: »

Sinn Fein are the only party i've heard in recent years who suggested increasing it (and it's not that they were forced to or could justify the benefits, it was only to benefit the North - screwing the South over in the process)

If they suggested that before for no good reason or no pressure then it's obviously not a very important issue to them, if it was they wouldn't have suggested increasing it. So for obvious reasons they would be the very last party I would trust when it comes to corporation tax

a great point - its is only very recently that SF actually considered keeping the rate @ 12.5% - previously they had wanted to increase it

Who's to say that given power they wouldn't revert back to the original view and increase it??

Nodferatu · 09-02-2011 10:56PM

yeah im voting sinn fein

09-02-2011 11:10PM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

OK.... a few folks are asking me if SF have any plans to burn the lenders who lend us money to service the country ...... Long story short is no.
SF do not have any plans to default on any loans taken out that are our own Sovereign debt, and this is the reason, the bond holders will still lend to us .... But i read a few comments from "pay for the failed bank debts" parties, asking and stating that we will not get any money in the future ..... think about this ....
If i owe you 90 euro, and i am asking you for a lend of 16-18 euro with the clear promise ... and demonstrated record of ALAWYS paying the interest i owe to you , will you not continue to lend to me ?
and i know that someone is going to ask about the bank debt, and the money owed on it.... let me say this to you....
I owe you 90 euro, i pay you the interest on that 90 euro every 3 months (never missing a payment)... one night i am out on the p*ss with you and while I am very very drunk on FF p*ss water, i tell you that i will also pay the debts belonging to my friend (my friend is in the army and goes by the name private banks) and that private Banks doesnt have to pay you any more of the money he owes you back .... would you really expect me to pay his debts to you when i sober up (get off the FF sauce so to speak).... Really, would you expect it? Now, if you saw me out on the sauce again with private banks and you saw me lending him more money on top of what he already owes you .... then you would in reality start charging me a higher rate of interest on the 90 euro, as you would be scared out of your pants that i am becoming an alco like my friend private banks (addicted to credit/craic as well)....
Now ... i sober up and i go to you open an honest, after sobering up, i tell you straight faced... i will never hang around with private banks, i will not drink like that again, and in fact, i am going to reduce my spending on a yearly basis, would you not respect me more??? Would you not say to yourself, "At last the stupid fecker is seeing sense" and that i am a stalwart business partner again???

One small problem with that logic...we haven't defaulted yet or renegotiated and still have that good record you talk about,yet the bond markets still don't want to lend us money untill we get public spending under control now,today like.

So you were saying?

Eliot Rosewater · 09-02-2011 11:16PM

Everyone take a deep breath before posting. Lees personalisation please - concentrate on the issues rather than the posters discussing them. If you've a problem with a post, use the Report Post button.

/mod.

Molly007 · 10-02-2011 12:13AM

I definitely won't be voting SF.

Davypat · 10-02-2011 02:43AM

eddison wrote: »

Ok, you are right, I edited the comment out about FG and racism, fair enough.
The wifes family? ha! no dude, I think your getting me mixed up with Lars1916.

But you keep bringing up history, what about all the victims of Michael Collins? Do you know any of his victims names?

Remember Ballyseedy, Countess Bridge & Bahaghs in Kerry????Let him without sin, cast the first stone.

eddison · 10-02-2011 03:02AM

I think we don't need the lily white hands of Micheal Martin at this point in time. We need someone TOUGH !!
Look at the debate the other night- think that either of those two are going to get a good deal for Ireland? ha! they will be walked on.

Micheal Martin is not bare knuckle fighter, and neither is Enda Kenny. Lets face it folks- Kenny was there all through the boom saying spend more lads ye're not spending enough.
Kenny came back from brussels with his tail between his legs. Noonan is tough, but Gerry Adams negotiated with the IRA, the INLA, the UDA the UFV the unionists, the British Government. So when it come to the IMF, Adams would kick the living c**p out of them !!! And he would kick the be-jeazuz out of Brussels too- no prob.

You might not like him but Adams is one tough buachaill.

man.about.town · 10-02-2011 03:07AM

sinn fein will never get my vote... only in ireland could you have a terrorist party in government

Pat D. Almighty · 10-02-2011 03:20AM

man.about.town wrote: »

sinn fein will never get my vote... only in ireland could you have a terrorist party in government

You reckon Sinn Fein are the only party in Ireland that have a 'terrorist' history? Ever heard of Anti-Treaty Sinn Fein (Fianna Fail)?

man.about.town · 10-02-2011 03:35AM

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

You reckon Sinn Fein are the only party in Ireland that have a 'terrorist' history? Ever heard of Anti-Treaty Sinn Fein (Fianna Fail)?

well clearly i have not heard of this treaty.... either way, i stand by initial post. sinn fein supports the ira, obviously not publicly or they would be arrested for membership of the ira.

takun · 10-02-2011 03:41AM

I am no defender of Fianna Fail, but let's cut out this nonsense of equating a party with its historical roots in terrorist activity and one which has very recent associations with terrorism. There is a difference.

There are people in Sinn Fein today, elected people, who were convicted of terrorist activity. There are many representatives of Sinn Fein (perhaps all?) who still refuse to condemn terrorist activities. There is strong and credible suspicion of relatively recent association with criminal activity.

That may either not matter to you, for whatever reason, and that's your choice. It may matter greatly to you and that too is a choice. But saying it's all in the past in the same way as the roots of FF and FG are in the past is a nonsense.

Hannibal · 10-02-2011 03:52AM

takun wrote: »

I am no defender of Fianna Fail, but let's cut out this nonsense of equating a party with its historical roots in terrorist activity and one which has very recent associations with terrorism. There is a difference.

There are people in Sinn Fein today, elected people, who were convicted of terrorist activity. There are many representatives of Sinn Fein (perhaps all?) who still refuse to condemn terrorist activities. There is strong and credible suspicion of relatively recent association with criminal activity.

That may either not matter to you, for whatever reason, and that's your choice. It may matter greatly to you and that too is a choice. But saying it's all in the past in the same way as the roots of FF and FG are in the past is a nonsense.

I notice you didnt mention Labour.. perhaps Gilmore, Rabbitte, DeRossa etc also have recent links and membership of the OIRA.
By the way Sinn Fein played a pivitol role in bringing about peace to this island and dont ever underestimate that.
Show me any evidence of criminality? because the IMC said in April 2006 that they are completely satisfied that the PIRA have fully decommissioned and are not engaged in criminality and all the IMC reports since have given the PIRA a clean bill of health. So what you're saying is complete baseless nonsense of the type you probably read in the Independent, Herald or the Sunday World

takun · 10-02-2011 04:01AM

Ok, add Labour, my omission, sorry.

As I said, to some people it doesn't matter for what ever reason, that current elected members and candidates for a party have terrorist convictions. You may be one of those, I don't presume to guess.

To others, it does, and I am one of those.

I was talking about Sinn Fein, not the PIRA, who are/were a terrorist organisation. I understand that they are not the same entity as Sinn Fein.

Just FYI - I haven't bought or read an issue of the Herald or the Independent in over 10 years, maybe longer. I never bought the Sunday World in my life. I may read the occasional Independent article online, but not very often.

Pat D. Almighty · 10-02-2011 09:20AM

man.about.town wrote: »

well clearly i have not heard of this treaty.... either way, i stand by initial post. sinn fein supports the ira, obviously not publicly or they would be arrested for membership of the ira.

Bull****

joesoap007 · 10-02-2011 09:37AM

when will people learn there is always a better way. the imf are in ireland are yous all dumb?look what they have done to africa and the middle east.in egypt they put the price of food up people were going hungry thats what made them take to the streets in the first place.do you all want to go down when the euro crashs,not if WHEN,imf bail out money comes out of thin air in the form of s d r which is nothing but numbers on a computer ,while we pay it back with our hard earned CASH.

ples look in to this

iv allways voted SF and they have done a great job in the north of ireland. the job is far from over and they will tell you that them selfs.

ps to all the debunkers on this thread get a life,sf can lead this country,

Cal_Egle · 10-02-2011 09:39AM

man.about.town wrote: »

sinn fein will never get my vote... only in ireland could you have a terrorist party in government

I hope you are saying this in jest ..... Labour is made up of SinnFein the workers party members, FG came out of the Facist movement that went to fight on the side of Dictator Franco, and FF were the party that plunged Ireland into the civil war in 1922 (and more recently, caused the deaths of more people due to suicides resulting from loss of hope in our country, unlimited numbers dieing unnecessarily in hospitals) and of course, Financial Terrorism. And yes, i can hold FF responsible for a lot of suicide deaths, was it not Bertie that told people to go commit suicide instead of talking about the real state of the economy in 2007?
If you are so short-sighted that you will vote with your blinkers on, full of hate for the only party offering any alternative to the bunch of muppets in the established parties, then good luck to you and vote for them. But in the end, you should feeel proud of the last government that we had in this country... Unless you are one of the FF cronies that got money from them for being a supporter, you should open your eyes to what is going on in this country...

Cal_Egle · 10-02-2011 09:48AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

First of all, stop being such a partonising sh*t.

Before the bailout, yields on Irish government bonds were over 8%. We are better off with the bailout money at 5.8% than selling government bonds at more than 8%. Dont say that letting banks fail will see bond rates drop, it didnt work for Iceland and it wont work for us.

Pete, seriously, read some articles before you tout your opinions as face ... did you watch the Vincent Browne program last night? Iceland have half the unemployment rate we have... are they really that screwed? Iceland had 1.7% growth in Q3 2010 alone (only 18 months after they ran into their banking crises), is that so bad?
And the reason the Bond markets went up to 9% (not 8%) prior to the Bailout, because every one and their mother new that the government said that the Irish people would pay the private banking debt and the Bond Holders knew we wouldnt afford it ... thats why they put the rate up to 9%.... If you want to know the true state of our economy now, watch the Vincent Browne program from last night (http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne Wednesday 9th February) and come back on to the Forum and state some facts.... and again , please i will ask you to hold off on your personal insults, you are not helping your argument when you lower yourself to that level. The idea of the discussion topic here, is to help give unbiased opionions, facts to help us all make up our minds on what sort of govbernment we want to bring in.... If you cant remove the emotions from your updates, then maybe think about getting some help outside of here (professional help)

Tragedy · 10-02-2011 09:49AM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

ould feeel proud of the last government that we had in this country... Unless you are one of the FF cronies that got money from them for being a supporter, you should open your eyes to what is going on in this country...

Nevermind opening their eyes to what is going on in this country, they should open their eyes to what is going on in this thread.
They'll see you accusing me of being an FF/FG/Lab shill and promising to protest at SF HQ if I provided expenses figures.

I provided figures, you didn't apologise for accusing me of being a shill, and you're still not protesting.
Why should anyone be listening to you proselytize when you're a proven liar?

Latest fun research: Aengus O'Snodaigh claimed €54,454 between 2005-2008 in travel & subsistence expenses despite living a 14km roundtrip from Dáil.

Cal_Egle · 10-02-2011 09:54AM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Again Pete, please dont get upset ... the truth is hard to take, when you have spent your whole life trusting one established party or another.. it must be doubly upsetting to hear that the only party with a long term view is SF .... you seem to think that i am a SF supporter ... i am not... but i know what is right and what is wrong for me as a citizen of this country and i am lucky i have a good job... and i want to protect that job...
Going with the other parties ... we are sincerely risking our low corporate tax rate (The French have made no bones about it, they want to link the loan, to changing the Irish corporate tax rate). I will not vote for any party that is willing to even engage in this discussion with the French. They were cute enough to jack up the interest rate on the loan in the first place... knowing that at 5.8% we have not one hope in hell of ever paying the money back beyond 2013. They know they can then dictate to us that we must change our corporate tax rate.
Please, when you respond to me, try your best not to use personal directed profanities in your answers to my responses.;)

OK .... i will hold off on any more patronising remarks ... i just received a warning from the moderator that i may be upsetting you and the moderator has told me that i will be taken off the thread if i dont stop it. If you dont see me on the thread anymore, you will know i was removed... and if that happens, between now and election day, we all get to see the truth about what is going on. I really hope we all get the government we deserve and that some day when i am in Cavan, i can meet up with you for a pint... i like your arguments, and i hope you respect mine...

joesoap007 · 10-02-2011 10:03AM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Pete, seriously, read some articles before you tout your opinions as face ... did you watch the Vincent Browne program last night? Iceland have half the unemployment rate we have... are they really that screwed? Iceland had 1.7% growth in Q3 2010 alone (only 18 months after they ran into their banking crises), is that so bad?
And the reason the Bond markets went up to 9% (not 8%) prior to the Bailout, because every one and their mother new that the government said that the Irish people would pay the private banking debt and the Bond Holders knew we wouldnt afford it ... thats why they put the rate up to 9%.... If you want to know the true state of our economy now, watch the Vincent Browne program from last night (http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne Wednesday 9th February) and come back on to the Forum and state some facts.... and again , please i will ask you to hold off on your personal insults, you are not helping your argument when you lower yourself to that level. The idea of the discussion topic here, is to help give unbiased opionions, facts to help us all make up our minds on what sort of govbernment we want to bring in.... If you cant remove the emotions from your updates, then maybe think about getting some help outside of here (professional help)

i think if ireland dose what iceland done others will follow ..could you see ireland without europe and its fines and our gas oil fishing grounds gold mines back in our hands puting back jobs were there most needed,,and as for farming we could feed most of the world.FACT

Tragedy · 10-02-2011 10:04AM

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Pete, seriously, read some articles before you tout your opinions as face ... did you watch the Vincent Browne program last night? Iceland have half the unemployment rate we have... are they really that screwed? Iceland had 1.7% growth in Q3 2010 alone (only 18 months after they ran into their banking crises), is that so bad?

Cal, seriously, read some articles before you tout your opinions as fact. Iceland is considered to be in real danger of entering an economic depression(not recession, depression). It's gdp has fallen by over 40% since 2007 and it's currency is now worth around 25-30% what it once was.

Why do you say 1.7% growth in Q3 2010 alone? Is that because the other quarters are singularly unimpressive?

Also, their unemployment rate seems to be growing not getting smaller.

Cal_Egle · 10-02-2011 10:04AM

Tragedy wrote: »

Nevermind opening their eyes to what is going on in this country, they should open their eyes to what is going on in this thread.
They'll see you accusing me of being an FF/FG/Lab shill and promising to protest at SF HQ if I provided expenses figures.

I provided figures, you didn't apologise for accusing me of being a shill, and you're still not protesting.
Why should anyone be listening to you proselytize when you're a proven liar?

Latest fun research: Aengus O'Snodaigh claimed €54,454 between 2005-2008 in travel & subsistence expenses despite living a 14km roundtrip from Dáil.

Seriously, why do you not ask them yourselves what they are using the expenses money for... I am sending your post to the releveant people and asking them to check it out.. But please remember, people in glass houses should not throw stones... can you name one party that has milked the Dail less than this? Please tell me that you believe FF/FG/Labour havent....

Micheal Martin taking 90k pay-off, Eamonn Gilmours wife getting 500k for a patch of land that is only worth 40-50k, and some FG members in opposition for the last 13 years and still getting ministerial pensions, and seriously, i downloaded the data you sent me the other day (granted, i only review the first link and stopped there, because there were approx 80 TD names on that list and only one of them were a SF member) and i responded back based on the single link ..... do you still have the seconds link? If the second link has more succint data to back up your point, I will do the data analysis on that link also, if you still have it, but please dont send me something like the first link (1 SF member in an 80 name list... please).

10-02-2011 10:09AM

Iceland has about the same population of co cork.
Ergo it being less than a tenth the size of Ireland it is too small to be making proper comparisons between the two economies.

It's unemployment rate though has increased by 600% since 2008 which is a reliable indicator of the effects of it's situation.
Most of that happened in 2009/10

So lets stop talking about that shining example.

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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