Strabane young mother gets 3 months for stealing 10quid pair of jeans

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 02:13PM

Einhard wrote: »

So why not slap a 3 month prison sentence on the schoolkid who steals a Yorkie? I mean, it might act as a deterrent to others? The role of the justice system in prosecuting offenders is to punish them for crimes they have committed, not crimes they might commit in the future, or to deter others from committing the same crimes. That's the system that was in operation until the 18th century, and those who advocated hanging for small time larceny argued along the same lines as those defending the sentence here- it'll deter others etc.

Well if a person was rewarded for committing an offence, they would then commit more in the future, so punishment is a deterrent for the persons future as well as punishment for the crime commited.

If you dont commit any crime then you dont need to worry about too heavy a sentence do you?

old_aussie · 03-02-2011 02:16PM

Sentence her to be "transported to Australia"

RichieC · 03-02-2011 02:17PM

We should bury her up the shoulders and have the locals f*ck rocks at her head!

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 02:18PM

old_aussie wrote: »

Sentence her to be "transported to Australia"

I will be getting a few free pairs of jeans myself if thats the sentence:D

revz · 03-02-2011 02:18PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fEjJ4Ecy9Q

Yunnie · 03-02-2011 02:20PM

BastardPrince wrote: »

soto warrant a three month sentence you would have to have stolen more than €20,000 worth of stuff? seems like a stupid system you;ve created there...

instead of spending money to keep this numpty in jail, spend it on people who warrant £20,000 being spent to keep them locked up. I wouldnt feel any safer knowing shes in jail. Theres scum walking around after getting suspended sentances for robbing or hurting other people, just to do it over again.

Einhard · 03-02-2011 02:30PM

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well judge Einhard, what sentence would be appropriate, taking into account we dont know her backround like the real judge would have probably been aware? I thought myself it was a harsh sentence, but who knows what the full story is.

LOL, that's funny. Everyone else has an opinion on the matter, and it's ok. I happen to take a different view, that the sentence was harsh, and I got the snotty "judge Einhard" approach!

I'm going on the facts at hand robbie. You should try it yourself sometime. I clearly stated that, had she previous convictions, then the sentence would have been reasonable. However, the OP, on which we're all commenting, states that she has no such record. So, I'm commenting on what's been reported, you're commenting on your own conjecture. I'll stick with my approach if you don't mind.

speedboatchase`s point about them being only a £10 item should not mean its ok is a valid point. So sinse commprehension abilities obviously must be your strong point, what should be the sentences for stealing a £1 item, £10, £1000? What if someone stole your mobile phone from you yourself, whats the sentence for that?

I had not problem with his point. I was objecting to his insinuation that anyone who objects to the sentence therefore thinks stealing is ok. Nobody has claimed anything of the sort in this thread, and that's why I questioned his comprehension abilities.

If someone stole my mobile, and had no previous convictions, I'd be more than happy with compensation for my loss, and some form of fine and/or community servce for the offender. Why would I wish someone locked away for months for the temporary loss of a mobile phone? Seems a bit vindictive and atavistic to me.

Should they not be up to the judge on each case presented before him? Im not saying the sentences they hand down are always appropriate. But more often than not they are too lenient.

Of course it should be up to each judge, but that doesn;t preclude the rest of us from commenting on sentencing, and nor should it. If the judge had undersentenced in a murder trial, and people here in AH were rightly outraged, I'm pretty certain you wouldn;t be in here telling us all that the sentencing is the perogative of the judge, and shouldn;t really be questioned.

newmug wrote: »

Cos a schoolkid is under 18. If I stole a yorkie when I was a youngster, I'd be in bed for a week with the beating I'd get from my parents. Proper order too.

The age of criminal responsibility in Ireland is 12. Surely sentencing them to detention would act as a deterrent to other larcenous children? I mean, deterrence is the name of the game according to most posts here.

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well if a person was rewarded for committing an offence, they would then commit more in the future, so punishment is a deterrent for the persons future as well as punishment for the crime commited.

Maybe in your mind it is, but in a fair justice system, punishments should only be meted out for crimes actually committed, not hypothetical ones that may or may not occur in the future.

If you dont commit any crime then you dont need to worry about too heavy a sentence do you?

Wow. And anyone who cares about civil liberties winches a little. Just because one is guilty of committing an offence, doesn't mean that society should be free to impose whatever draconian sentences it likes on a person. That kind of thinking can be used to defend all forms of horrific punishments, from the hanging of teenage robbers in the 18th century, to the stoning to death of adulturers in Ethiopia.

Also, I'd add that, far from acting as a deterrent, incarceration has been shown to actually increase the odds of recidivism amongst first time offenders.

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 02:30PM

Yunnie wrote: »

instead of spending money to keep this numpty in jail, spend it on people who warrant £20,000 being spent to keep them locked up. I wouldnt feel any safer knowing shes in jail. Theres scum walking around after getting suspended sentances for robbing or hurting other people, just to do it over again.

No doubt the dangerous criminals get away free in too many cases, and that makes someone like in the OP here seem to be getting a harsh sentence, which maybe it is if its a first ever offence. But prison sentences are not always about keeping society safe from dangerous criminals, although this is one of its functions of course, but its also a deterrent for people starting on a possible life of crime even though the initial crime maybe relatively small.

baldbear · 03-02-2011 02:34PM

What a selfish woman, using her child to hide her thieving then not pleading her guilt and using the sob story of having a kid to get off!!

This is her first conviction but no way was it her first theft, i wonder how many times was she up in court for this sort of petty thieving? I'd say the judge was sick of letting her off on previous occasions.

newmug · 03-02-2011 02:34PM

Yunnie wrote: »

instead of spending money to keep this numpty in jail, spend it on people who warrant £20,000 being spent to keep them locked up. I wouldnt feel any safer knowing shes in jail. Theres scum walking around after getting suspended sentances for robbing or hurting other people, just to do it over again.

They should ALL be in jail. And the cost of keeping them should be more in line with other countries, as in no TV's, no gyms, no dedicated prison service to mollycoddle them, just let the army do it as part of normal guard duties. I guarantee you there'd be a lot less prison riots and general violence and drugs once our boys in green were in charge!

Yunnie · 03-02-2011 02:40PM

robbie7730 wrote: »

No doubt the dangerous criminals get away free in too many cases, and that makes someone like in the OP here seem to be getting a harsh sentence, which maybe it is if its a first ever offence. But prison sentences are not always about keeping society safe from dangerous criminals, although this is one of its functions of course, but its also a deterrent for people starting on a possible life of crime even though the initial crime maybe relatively small.

It is a deterrent but 3 months in prison for £10 jeans is harsh. Community service should be given for petty crimes. Leave jail space free for serious crimes. Stealing something worth £10 is not serious.

Chardee MacDennis · 03-02-2011 02:53PM

Yunnie wrote: »

instead of spending money to keep this numpty in jail, spend it on people who warrant £20,000 being spent to keep them locked up. I wouldnt feel any safer knowing shes in jail. Theres scum walking around after getting suspended sentances for robbing or hurting other people, just to do it over again.

i'm sure retailers would disagree...

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 02:55PM

Einhard wrote: »

LOL, that's funny. Everyone else has an opinion on the matter, and it's ok. I happen to take a different view, that the sentence was harsh, and I got the snotty "judge Einhard" approach!

A now calm down, where did i say you cant have an opinion, i also have an opinion even if its wrong

I'm going on the facts at hand robbie. You should try it yourself sometime.

What facts, we dont really have any, just because the OP says she had no previous, is that a fact in which case we can not have an opinion on?

I had not problem with his point. I was objecting to his insinuation that anyone who objects to the sentence therefore thinks stealing is ok. Nobody has claimed anything of the sort in this thread, and that's why I questioned his comprehension abilities.

If you can judge another poster`s abilities then refering to you as judge Einhard does not seem too snotty to be honest

If someone stole my mobile, and had no previous convictions, I'd be more than happy with compensation for my loss, and some form of fine and/or community servce for the offender. Why would I wish someone locked away for months for the temporary loss of a mobile phone? Seems a bit vindictive and atavistic to me.

Vindictive? I thought it was called convicting and sentencing

Of course it should be up to each judge, but that doesn;t preclude the rest of us from commenting on sentencing, and nor should it. If the judge had undersentenced in a murder trial, and people here in AH were rightly outraged, I'm pretty certain you wouldn;t be in here telling us all that the sentencing is the perogative of the judge, and shouldn;t really be questioned.

As i said, judges sentences are not always correct. Murder convictions have a mandatory sentence i think.

Maybe in your mind it is, but in a fair justice system, punishments should only be meted out for crimes actually committed, not hypothetical ones that may or may not occur in the future.

Where has anyone said you should be jailed for a future crime?

Wow. And anyone who cares about civil liberties winches a little. Just because one is guilty of committing an offence, doesn't mean that society should be free to impose whatever draconian sentences it likes on a person. That kind of thinking can be used to defend all forms of horrific punishments, from the hanging of teenage robbers in the 18th century, to the stoning to death of adulturers in Ethiopia.

Is 3 months draconian for stealing, i doubt she will be guillotined or hung, although could be stoned:D, we dont know the facts? Will probably be out in 3 or 4 weeks anyway.

Also, I'd add that, far from acting as a deterrent, incarceration has been shown to actually increase the odds of recidivism amongst first time offenders.

Ok never jail anyone again so, and see if it works. Because if you only get jailed on your second offence then the offender has offended a second time so thats the end of detering first time offenders.

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 03:03PM

baldbear wrote: »

What a selfish woman, using her child to hide her thieving then not pleading her guilt and using the sob story of having a kid to get off!!

This is her first conviction but no way was it her first theft, i wonder how many times was she up in court for this sort of petty thieving? I'd say the judge was sick of letting her off on previous occasions.

Yes a good posibility alright.

prinz · 03-02-2011 03:26PM

Yunnie wrote: »

It is a deterrent but 3 months in prison for £10 jeans is harsh. Community service should be given for petty crimes. Leave jail space free for serious crimes. Stealing something worth £10 is not serious.

Until it all adds up. Maybe she goes around 10 different stores and does the same thing, suddenly it's £100. I know one small express branch of a large supermarket chain that has losses between €15,000 - €25,000 from shoplifting by customers/staff. I don't think is carrying off that amount of stock in one go, but it puts a big dent in profit margins at the year end.

Dudess · 03-02-2011 04:09PM

newmug wrote: »

If I stole a yorkie when I was a youngster, I'd be in bed for a week with the beating I'd get from my parents. Proper order too.

If that's true, I doubt you thought it was "proper order" at the time.

Ridiculously harsh punishment - just like "bleeding heart" is a ridiculously stupid phrase.

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 04:31PM

Dudess wrote: »

If that's true, I doubt you thought it was "proper order" at the time.

I dont think many of us thought it was proper order when diciplined by parents as kids but when we look back we realise it was.

In this case 3 months could well be a harsh sentence for a first time offender if this was the case. But do we know the facts in their entirity here? It does look like the judge gave the opportunity to plead guilty though for a lesser sentence as well but was not taken. Its hard to know.
Too many lenient sentences are given out though, and others are jailed for not having a tv licence etc. It will never be perfect.

Dudess · 03-02-2011 04:32PM

robbie7730 wrote: »

I dont think many of us thought it was proper order when diciplined by parents as kids but when we look back we realise it was.

A beating that requires bed rest to recover from it isn't discipline, it's abuse.

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 04:38PM

Dudess wrote: »

A beating that requires bed rest to recover from it isn't discipline, it's abuse.

True, although im not sure if it literally happened to the poster.

Kids can definitley be shown the rights and wrongs of life without any physical methods at all i believe anyway.

Einhard · 03-02-2011 04:54PM

prinz wrote: »

Until it all adds up. Maybe she goes around 10 different stores and does the same thing, suddenly it's £100. I know one small express branch of a large supermarket chain that has losses between €15,000 - €25,000 from shoplifting by customers/staff. I don't think is carrying off that amount of stock in one go, but it puts a big dent in profit margins at the year end.

Then she should be punished for each and every crime she commits, not hypothetical crimes that she might in the future.

Seriously, if imprisoning someone for a crime they didn;t commit is wrong, how on earth does imprisoning someone for a crime they haven't yet committed, and which they may likely never commit, not in the same category. Each way, you're incarcerating someone for a crime they have had no hand, act, or part in.

Canis Lupus · 03-02-2011 04:55PM

Dudess wrote: »

A beating that requires bed rest to recover from it isn't discipline, it's abuse.

Seriously.... you should be able to recognise an embellishment when you see one.

prinz · 03-02-2011 04:57PM

Einhard wrote: »

Then she should be punished for each and every crime she commits, not hypothetical crimes that she might in the future. Seriously, if imprisoning someone for a crime they didn;t commit is wrong, how on earth does imprisoning someone for a crime they haven't yet committed, and which they may likely never commit, not in the same category. Each way, you're incarcerating someone for a crime they have had no hand, act, or part in.

That's not the point I was making. My point was that it's ridiculous to say 'it was just €10'/"stealing €10 isn't serious"... If you take that stance with everyone who nicks 'just €10 every time you'd lose a hell of a lot of money.

creaghadoos · 03-02-2011 05:01PM

the judge who tried the case has been severely criticized in the past for dishing out ridiculously low sentences.

a man who abused his 2 nieces got 2 1/2 years

a man who killed another while driving high on drink and drugs got 2 years

she thought she was up in front of a soft touch. its more the judges history that has hit the headlines

Dudess · 03-02-2011 05:01PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Seriously.... you should be able to recognise an embellishment when you see one.

Well ok, I don't think that poster means they literally spent a week in bed after a beating, but I did take from it that they would have gotten some excessive hidings as a kid.

Dudess · 03-02-2011 05:03PM

prinz wrote: »

That's not the point I was making. My point was that it's ridiculous to say 'it was just €10'/"stealing €10 isn't serious"... If you take that stance with everyone who nicks 'just €10 every time you'd lose a hell of a lot of money.

Stealing isn't just stealing though - e.g. this case compared to, say, a bank robbery.

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 05:03PM

Einhard wrote: »

Then she should be punished for each and every crime she commits, not hypothetical crimes that she might in the future.

Seriously, if imprisoning someone for a crime they didn;t commit is wrong, how on earth does imprisoning someone for a crime they haven't yet committed, and which they may likely never commit, not in the same category. Each way, you're incarcerating someone for a crime they have had no hand, act, or part in.

Your well into this future crime punishment thing, where has anyone ever been sentenced for a crime of the future?

A repeat offender may well get a harsher sentence for a second or third repeat offence even if the offence is identical, so why is this? Could it be to try deter them from doing it again in the future? You dont get that simple concept no?

Look at tv licence for example, first offence fine €1000 euro, second time €2000. Why is it bigger for a repeat offence? Simply to deter you from doing it again. Its not a sentence for not paying in the future, its a stiffer penalty because you did it twice and it might make you less likely to do a third time. And if you do it a third time you will be punished for that, not for the one after it which you may or may not repeat.

This is the whole idea of a first offence more lenient sentence is it not?
A repeat offender is likely to do it again.

Dudess · 03-02-2011 05:06PM

robbie7730 wrote: »

where has anyone ever been sentenced for a crime of the future?

Tom Cruise in Minority Report.

Bruthal · 03-02-2011 05:17PM

Dudess wrote: »

Tom Cruise in Minority Report.

shauna1983 · 03-02-2011 05:24PM

well I can confirm that this was not her first offence.

This girl started of as a, wait for it, KITKAT theif!! She used to steal from the lunch boxes of my classmates and I, her sticky fingers touching the delicious snacks our mothers would have gave us for our breaktime treat. Our teacher had to search her bag everday, and behold, one day, the teacher found BATTERIES. Our poor teacher had not even noticed her pack of 4, D size Energizer batteries were missing. She had only just bought them but already Alison had them in her bag. But her worst offence at school, well, it nearly killed my friend. She still bares the emotional scars today. We had a lesson outside the classroom. As the end of day was approaching, Alison went in to use the bathroom. The rest of the class were going in to collect their bags for the walk home when Alison came busting out, nearly knocking my friend over, clutching her Capri Sun, and away she went running down the melmount road. My friend has not been able to look at a capri sun to this day without sheading a tear. So for all those innocent children who lost their kitkats, for our teacher and her batteries, and finally for my dear friend who lost her capri sun, justice has been served. We have suffered in silence for 20 years but im glad that now we have a voice and can speak out about the crimes commited against us. what started as Kitkat theft progressed to jeans, who knows what would have been next, maybe dvd players, we may never know.

I would also like to add, although this is not theft, but once she took brown paint from the classrom and painted our class toilet brown. Why you ask? we will never know.

ArtSmart · 03-02-2011 05:25PM

A 5-day trial? wtf?

full story not being told here.

Strabane young mother gets 3 months for stealing 10quid pair of jeans

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