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1,500 apply for 30 Argos jobs

2

Comments

  • #32
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    cson wrote: »
    How much do you think people who have made huge investment in their education and careers should be paid?

    Eh, the job seamus was replying to is €20k per annum for a job that requires the Leaving Cert and nothing more. A general office 'helper'. Apparently €20,000 is not good enough because there might be some overtime? Having a laugh? That's what I said represented a terrible attitude.
    cson wrote: »
    Do you think someone with a degree, masters and 10 years relevant experience should be happy that the previous 15 years have resulted in a salary that is less than the national average? Yours is the terrible attitude my friend.

    Do you realise there are people such as accountancy graduates in this country being paid €15,000 (and less in a few instances) for a whole lot of overtime as well as spending all your spare time studying/exams etc. An education does not guarantee you a job, nor a minimum salary.


  • #33
    Azureus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭Azureus


    prinz wrote: »
    Eh, the job seamus was replying to is €20k per annum for a job that requires the Leaving Cert and nothing more. A general office 'helper'. Apparently €20,000 is not good enough because there might be some overtime? Having a laugh? That's what I said represented a terrible attitude. .

    Absolutely agree with this! Granted we would all love to be earning the national average (whatever that is, assuming more than 30k by previous posts) but those national averages were probably created during boom-time and arent sustainable anymore, and contibuted to driving up the cost of living here too.

    Im a college graduate and earning not much more than 20k per annum, I wouldnt neccesarily expect somebody with no experience and no qualifications to be on more.

    That said, employers do take the pish, I just dont think 20k is in any way unreasonable.


  • #34
    CorkMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭CorkMan


    I've an economic recovery plan:

    All big lads undergo self-defence training and become bouncers/bodyguards.

    All good looking women become prostitutes.


  • #35
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    phasers wrote: »
    I need a job. Someone hire me. I've no experience or anything but I make good tea and give good.... mass

    Offer €2 per hour and you keep what you find


  • #36
    EverEvolving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭EverEvolving


    Timothy Bryce wrote: »
    Essentially office monkey....random admin around the office but probably paying a bit more cash than Argos. The only qualification is to have done the leaving cert.

    Was Office Monkey in the job description, could put some people off :D

    Where did you advertise it? I find Fas is one of the best sites to go to and it is free to advertise on as far as I know.


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  • #37
    Devil08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Devil08


    Ive seen a lot of jobs advertised now state in them not to apply if you are overqualified.

    I was ruled out of a number of jobs for being 'overqualified'. I was told I had too much experience and a higher degree of education than was needed for the job on offer.

    Some employers need a good kick in the hole TBH.


  • #38
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,816 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Sadly, i had to let go 2 staff last week, i have enough work on, but the market is so competitive at the moment, i could not afford to pay the relevant prsi \ paye and other taxes. The margains are not there any more to afford them, and the revenue people are ruthless.


  • #39
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    Devil08 wrote: »
    Some employers need a good kick in the hole TBH.

    No, there are, and always were positions for the uneducated foot soldiers, they'd work more loyally, accept lower pay and take praise at face value.

    You, with your education or degree, whilst you'd work for peanuts, would probably be capable of running the business better and see through false praise and complain about your rights and rates of pay.

    It's not worth the effort on either side ~ we need simple people to exploit, not educated people who grovel and see the job as subjugation instead of a chance to better oneself.


  • #40
    whiteonion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 837 ✭✭✭whiteonion


    cson wrote: »
    How much do you think people who have made huge investment in their education and careers should be paid?

    Do you think someone with a degree, masters and 10 years relevant experience should be happy that the previous 15 years have resulted in a salary that is less than the national average?

    Yours is the terrible attitude my friend.

    Why is someone with a degree automatically entitled to loads of money? You really need to lose that overinflated sense of entitlement. A chinese engineer would probably be happy with €500 euro a month. That is the kind of competition we're up against in this globalised world.


  • #41
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    whiteonion wrote: »
    A chinese engineer would probably be happy with €500 euro a month. That is the kind of competition we're up against in this globalised world.

    Especially if WE gave him free education in UCC/UCD etc here. ;)


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  • #42
    cson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,664 ✭✭✭✭cson


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Sitting at home on the dole is obviously a much better use of a masters alright.

    Your qaulification is worth approximately **** all if there's no related jobs out there for you. Still more of the "i'm too good for that, let a Polish lad do it" mentality that we got into during the boom.
    prinz wrote: »
    Eh, the job seamus was replying to is €20k per annum for a job that requires the Leaving Cert and nothing more. A general office 'helper'. Apparently €20,000 is not good enough because there might be some overtime? Having a laugh? That's what I said represented a terrible attitude.



    Do you realise there are people such as accountancy graduates in this country being paid €15,000 (and less in a few instances) for a whole lot of overtime as well as spending all your spare time studying/exams etc. An education does not guarantee you a job, nor a minimum salary.
    whiteonion wrote: »
    Why is someone with a degree automatically entitled to loads of money? You really need to lose that overinflated sense of entitlement. A chinese engineer would probably be happy with €500 euro a month. That is the kind of competition we're up against in this globalised world.

    Firstly I'd appreciate that all of you quoted have a read of my post again before attacking it.

    I alluded to a post seamus made regarding employers taking the piss with offers taking into account the qualifications of the prospective employees. The poster that quoted him said it was a terrible attitude; I digress for the following reasons;

    (i) A person with a Level 9 Qualification background in addition to 10 years work experience will have invested quite heavily in their education with a view to future rewards. I'm pretty certain that for 90% of these people that a remuneration that is greater than the average salary in the country [~35k] would be high on the list of desired rewards. And justified too; the best paid jobs go to either entrepreneurs who put their neck on the line and make it themselves or else hugely talented and skilled people. Investing in your education must have a corresponding positive effect on your job prospects and potential remuneration otherwise why bother?

    (ii) The holier than thou attitude of 'you should be glad of a job' grates with me sometimes. I understand the current situation in the jobs market here is desperate but entry level clerical work and basic service sector jobs such as the oft mentioned McDonalds should only be a short term solution for a jobseeker with a qualification. And by short term I mean 6 months or less. Otherwise you are effectively wasting the 4/5 years it took to obtain your degree or masters. You should always pursue the area you are most qualified in even if it means emigration; ask any Architecture grad whether it's better for them to tough it out in McDonalds for a few years or spend those few years in Australia or Canada building a portfolio. In any case to the point at hand a person with a Level 9 Qualification and 10 years work experience in that sector should not be working in McDonalds only on a very short term basis. They would be better served to emigrate [taking into account commitments here in Ireland] and pursue a job in their sector in a buoyant economy.

    To reiterate, my post was about a person with a level 9 and 10yrs experience as alluded to by seamus earlier. Straight out of the oven grads should be delighted with anything from 20k+; I should know because I'll be one of them next year. I know all about who pays the 15k for an ACA training contract too as Accountancy is my field. So no, a degree or a masters doesn't entitle you to a well paid job but it damn well should raise your expectation levels regarding what you have the potential to earn.

    Edit: Anyway, this being AH: Go **** yourselves.


  • #43
    Tubsandtiles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 673 ✭✭✭Tubsandtiles


    I love the smell of Argos catalogues in the morning :D


  • #44
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    fifties the field
    two chancer


  • #45
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    cson wrote: »
    How much do you think people who have made huge investment in their education and careers should be paid?

    Do you think someone with a degree, masters and 10 years relevant experience should be happy that the previous 15 years have resulted in a salary that is less than the national average?

    Yours is the terrible attitude my friend.

    Not, the terrible attitude is people who say there are no jobs when they mean there are no jobs that are paying enough for me to want them. Everyone started off in low paid jobs and gradually work up. I know I certainly did and if I was unemployed would jump at €20000 a year.


  • #46
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    cson wrote: »
    I alluded to a post seamus made regarding employers taking the piss with offers taking into account the qualifications of the prospective employees. The poster that quoted him said it was a terrible attitude; I digress for the following reasons....

    You haven't a clue what you were responding to...this is my post..

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70427104&postcount=24

    Apparently €20 grand a year for a school-leaver job explains why no one is bothered applying. That's a terrible attitude. Not 10 years experience, and third level qualifications.
    cson wrote: »
    To reiterate, my post was about a person with a level 9 and 10yrs experience as alluded to by seamus earlier. Straight out of the oven grads should be delighted with anything from 20k+....

    According to seamus €20k isn't enough to entice a LC grad, nevermind a Uni grad.
    Timothy Bryce wrote: »
    Essentially office monkey....random admin around the office but probably paying a bit more cash than Argos. The only qualification is to have done the leaving cert.
    seamus wrote: »
    If you're offering €20k per annum, with unpaid overtime and "some weekend work", that would probably explain why you're not getting any applications..

    I deliberately left the part about people with degrees and 10 years experience out of my reply I think you'll find. Two different issues.


  • #47
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Not, the terrible attitude is people who say there are no jobs when they mean there are no jobs that are paying enough for me to want them. Everyone started off in low paid jobs and gradually work up. I know I certainly did and if I was unemployed would jump at €20000 a year.

    If you were unemployed and getting €400 a week for the missus+kids would you still jump at it?
    Few mates of mine are whinging about no work but they refuse to settle for anything less than 30k which is a bit nuts when they don't have any qualifications.. they're getting about 18-20k on the dole so where's the incentive to get off their asses?
    I've tried telling them that they need to make a start, and move their way up the ladder but Irish people seem to think they're entitled to everything for free :rolleyes:


  • #48
    Timothy Bryce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Timothy Bryce


    EverEvolving wrote: »
    Was Office Monkey in the job description, could put some people off :D

    Where did you advertise it? I find Fas is one of the best sites to go to and it is free to advertise on as far as I know.

    I had loads of PM's about this - to be fair I'm not going to post the role here. It's a job based in Dublin, 9.5pm c. 24k salary. There's jobs out there if you look and willing to drop your standards ever so slightly. Some people's attitudes around finding work are ridiculous - you have to really, really work hard and hound the living sh!t out of companies if you want to work for them.

    If you're not a player you're a victim.


  • #49
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    seamus wrote: »
    If you're offering €20k per annum, with unpaid overtime and "some weekend work", that would probably explain why you're not getting any applications.

    Some employers are properly taking the piss with their job offers, I've seen jobs advertised at €30k per annum looking for people with degrees, certs & 10 years experience.
    Ok I'm definitely not a member of the "You should be grateful you have a job" brigade or an idiot who attacks those on the dole, however those are the conditions now - maybe it's businesses taking the piss, maybe they have less money, maybe it's just deemed good business practice... I would wager it's a combination of all of the above. And I'm certainly not saying it's right - some companies are being absolute dickheads and are doing nothing short of exploiting. But who has the power here? The company or the job-seeker? Such conditions = better than the alternative of not having a job to go to. I took a big cut in salary, and a job with far worse conditions when my contract at a university wasn't renewed two years ago. But it's a job - being on the dole with nothing to do all day is far, far worse. Plus, there are opportunities within the company I'm in now - and it's great for my CV. Being on the dole for a prolonged period doesn't help a CV, even if the vast majority of people on the dole don't have any other choice.
    cson wrote: »
    How much do you think people who have made huge investment in their education and careers should be paid?
    Market dictates.
    Do you think someone with a degree, masters and 10 years relevant experience should be happy that the previous 15 years have resulted in a salary that is less than the national average?
    No, but them's the breaks.
    cson wrote: »
    (i) A person with a Level 9 Qualification background in addition to 10 years work experience will have invested quite heavily in their education with a view to future rewards. I'm pretty certain that for 90% of these people that a remuneration that is greater than the average salary in the country [~35k] would be high on the list of desired rewards. And justified too; the best paid jobs go to either entrepreneurs who put their neck on the line and make it themselves or else hugely talented and skilled people. Investing in your education must have a corresponding positive effect on your job prospects and potential remuneration otherwise why bother?
    What about education for education's sake? It's not all about getting a job. I'd say to someone who is wondering what job an arts degree would qualify them for that an arts degree isn't really a career-focused one (bar teaching) but otherwise, education is better than none. And it still increases a person's chances in the work world.
    I understand the current situation in the jobs market here is desperate but entry level clerical work and basic service sector jobs such as the oft mentioned McDonalds should only be a short term solution for a jobseeker with a qualification. And by short term I mean 6 months or less. Otherwise you are effectively wasting the 4/5 years it took to obtain your degree or masters.
    Education is not a waste - ok I regret the masters I did, but I'd still prefer to have done it than not to have done it. The short-term solution you speak of is not the reality I'm afraid. People shouldn't feel above certain jobs just because they have qualifications - that to me is not a good attitude. Most people thankfully don't seem to have it though, despite what some geniuses here say.
    You should always pursue the area you are most qualified in
    Why? Emigration isn't an option for some either - e.g. family reasons: kids, infirm parent(s) etc. Although I'd agree those who are in a position to do so should emigrate if there are better opportunities further afield.
    Edit: Anyway, this being AH: Go **** yourselves.
    Because they disagree with you. Grow up. Although you did say you are a college kid - and it seems that way all right. You don't seem to have a full grasp of reality.


  • #50
    Rabies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,257 ✭✭✭✭Rabies


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    To get through that many people, they'll probably have 4 interview counters, A, B, C and D. You pick a number and wait in line.

    then find out it's out of stock


  • #51
    cson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,664 ✭✭✭✭cson


    prinz wrote: »
    You haven't a clue what you were responding to...this is my post..

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70427104&postcount=24

    Apparently €20 grand a year for a school-leaver job explains why no one is bothered applying. That's a terrible attitude. Not 10 years experience, and third level qualifications.



    According to seamus €20k isn't enough to entice a LC grad, nevermind a Uni grad.





    I deliberately left the part about people with degrees and 10 years experience out of my reply I think you'll find. Two different issues.

    Why then quote my post and respond to it like I had said 20k isn't enough for a school leaver? Again, have another read of it.


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  • #52
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    cson wrote: »
    Why then quote my post and respond to it like I had said 20k isn't enough for a school leaver? Again, have another read of it.

    Eh, because you quoted my reply to seamus' point re the €20k not being good enough to attract school leavers and told me I was the one with the terrible attitude?


  • #53
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I love how things blow up out of all proportion. I didn't actually say €20k was a bad deal. In fact, straight out of school it's a good deal. But I get the impression that few 18-year-olds are going to look into being an office admin straight out of school and anyone with experience isn't going to move into a €20k job when they're probably being paid more than that at present.

    Even those unemployed might be pulling more than €20k at present with Standard Dole, JSA, Mortgage supplement, rent allowance, children's allowance, etc, etc. Or at the very least, taking a low-paying job might put them at a disadvantage because they will lose benefits. So leaving cert only or not, if someone is taking in more than €20k at present, they're not going to apply for a €20k a year job.

    We don't have the job spec referred to, and despite the "only qualification is the leaving cert" mentioned, there has to be another reason why people aren't apply for the job. If we say that Argos pay minimum wage, and this company pay "a little more cash", then we'll say that's €18k. Any further stipulations in that job spec such as, "Must have experience working in an office environment" or "Must be proficient with Microsoft Office", and you've already lost. If it was as simple as, "We'll take anyone who has two brain cells in their head", then surely a member of staff knows somebody looking for a job and/or you'd have people queuing up for it.

    My point on employers taking the piss is that there is this, "You should be lucky anyone even thinks of employing you" attitude out there where people are expected to work 10 hours a day and come in at weekends on demand without extra pay and you can piss off if you don't like it. So if people are reading between the lines and seeing, "€20k job, but I'm going to ridden up the arse for it", then I don't blame them for turning up their noses at it.

    One thing to remember about this whole recession is that despite the media hysteria, people generally aren't as poorly off as the media like to tell you they are. We have massive amounts of money in savings, and most reports indicate that people have cut their own personal spending back by twice as much as they've lost in wage cuts and income taxes, effectively meaning they have more money now than ever. People are still turning their noses up at jobs because they can afford to.


  • #54
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Sc@recrow wrote: »
    If you were unemployed and getting €400 a week for the missus+kids would you still jump at it?
    Few mates of mine are whinging about no work but they refuse to settle for anything less than 30k which is a bit nuts when they don't have any qualifications.. they're getting about 18-20k on the dole so where's the incentive to get off their asses?
    I've tried telling them that they need to make a start, and move their way up the ladder but Irish people seem to think they're entitled to everything for free :rolleyes:

    Oh I dunno, self respect? the opportunity to get working and get out there and try and get a job from a job which is easier, the longer you are unemployed the less likely an employer will employ you. And I take home €485 and am damn glad to have the job.


  • #55
    Timothy Bryce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Timothy Bryce


    seamus wrote: »
    I love how things blow up out of all proportion. I didn't actually say €20k was a bad deal. In fact, straight out of school it's a good deal. But I get the impression that few 18-year-olds are going to look into being an office admin straight out of school and anyone with experience isn't going to move into a €20k job when they're probably being paid more than that at present.

    Even those unemployed might be pulling more than €20k at present with Standard Dole, JSA, Mortgage supplement, rent allowance, children's allowance, etc, etc. Or at the very least, taking a low-paying job might put them at a disadvantage because they will lose benefits. So leaving cert only or not, if someone is taking in more than €20k at present, they're not going to apply for a €20k a year job.

    We don't have the job spec referred to, and despite the "only qualification is the leaving cert" mentioned, there has to be another reason why people aren't apply for the job. If we say that Argos pay minimum wage, and this company pay "a little more cash", then we'll say that's €18k. Any further stipulations in that job spec such as, "Must have experience working in an office environment" or "Must be proficient with Microsoft Office", and you've already lost. If it was as simple as, "We'll take anyone who has two brain cells in their head", then surely a member of staff knows somebody looking for a job and/or you'd have people queuing up for it.

    My point on employers taking the piss is that there is this, "You should be lucky anyone even thinks of employing you" attitude out there where people are expected to work 10 hours a day and come in at weekends on demand without extra pay and you can piss off if you don't like it. So if people are reading between the lines and seeing, "€20k job, but I'm going to ridden up the arse for it", then I don't blame them for turning up their noses at it.

    One thing to remember about this whole recession is that despite the media hysteria, people generally aren't as poorly off as the media like to tell you they are. We have massive amounts of money in savings, and most reports indicate that people have cut their own personal spending back by twice as much as they've lost in wage cuts and income taxes, effectively meaning they have more money now than ever. People are still turning their noses up at jobs because they can afford to.

    Does it have to be all about money/a bit of overtime/weekends? I know some people who are qualified solicitors working for free to get their foot in the door. Not everyone's bag i know but they're trying to make something happen for them, as well as having a purpose and a reason for getting out of bed every morning. Some people put a price on that, some don't - and not everyone's the same.


  • #56
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Sc@recrow wrote: »
    Irish people seem to think they're entitled to everything for free :rolleyes:
    Don't be silly.


  • #57
    Chardee MacDennis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    yet my company has been trying to hire a developer for a month and only got about 5 cv's of which only 3 were based in ireland - we had to go to a recruitment company in the end...

    this country is ridiculously under skilled.


  • #58
    amy21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭amy21


    We have being looking for people for the last few months, being a very slow uptake, sometimes i think these stories are only publicity stunts from big retailers


  • #59
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    BastardPrince wrote: »
    yet my company has been trying to hire a developer for a month and only got about 5 cv's of which only 3 were based in ireland - we had to go to a recruitment company in the end...

    this country is ridiculously under skilled.
    Are you being very particular in what you were looking for though? For a start, most people aren't qualified in IT. Even those who are, might not be in the language you want and - even then - might not have the years you're looking for.
    However, there may be (and probably is) many people unemployed with entirely different skill sets. Doesn't mean they're all under skilled.


  • #60
    Chardee MacDennis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    amy21 wrote: »
    We have being looking for people for the last few months, being a very slow uptake, sometimes i think these stories are only publicity stunts from big retailers

    they are, the celtic tiger mentality still exists. from what i know of people on the dole there does seem to be three categories

    1. Scrounger happy to do f*ck all
    2. People who feel they have to get a job either in their field or at the same money they used to make
    3. People who are genuinely looking for work

    i think 1 and 2 make up most of the people on the dole. would you not just take a job to pay the bills and have a bit of self respect?


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  • #61
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    seamus wrote: »
    My point on employers taking the piss is that there is this, "You should be lucky anyone even thinks of employing you" attitude out there where people are expected to work 10 hours a day and come in at weekends on demand without extra pay and you can piss off if you don't like it. So if people are reading between the lines and seeing, "€20k job, but I'm going to ridden up the arse for it", then I don't blame them for turning up their noses at it..

    Maybe some employers take the piss with this, but generally it's included in the contract for any job that involves an agreed salary rather than pay by the hour, just in case. Obviously if someone is totally exploiting staff to routinely work longer hours that's an issue but in a job offer it's not really, it's just the employer covering their bases because yes, sometimes in jobs where you get an annual salary some overtime/weekend needs to be done.


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