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.223 long range hunting ammo

  • 29-01-2011 11:55PM
    #1
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭


    Hi Lads and Lassies,

    Following the previous advice and help from board members I have a substitution going through for a CZ 527 Varmint Kevlar .223 with 1:9 twist and a Burris Fullfield II 6.5-20x50 waiting to go on top of it.

    As from the title suggests I am asking what is the best ammo for long range hunting.
    I have done my research and have found from other board members with the same rifle that Hornady V-max 40gr and 55gr, Federal V-Shock 40gr and 50gr and American Eagle 50gr HP goes well in the rifle.

    I really asking the board members with the same rifle to give their advice on rounds they have used and have found successful at longer ranges say past 300 yrds.

    Thanks in advance

    Dev


«134

Comments

  • #2
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    If you are in Offaly tomorrow, I'll take out the .223 out past 300 so you can see how it works!


  • #3
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭dev110


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    If you are in Offaly tomorrow, I'll take out the .223 out past 300 so you can see how it works!

    Seriously Tack??
    I'm in work tomorrow in Tullamore 7-3 but will be free after that!


  • #4
    ronn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ronn


    what does twist mean i see you have 1:9 and someone else getting the same rifle with a 1:8:confused: what would that mean


  • #5
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    dev110 wrote: »
    Seriously Tack??
    I'm in work tomorrow in Tullamore 7-3 but will be free after that!

    7am -3pm I plan on being asleep but I could manage a shot around 4 :D

    You working days or nights?


  • #6
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭dev110


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    7am -3pm I plan on being asleep but I could manage a shot around 4 :D

    You working days or nights?

    Morning 7am-3pm.
    I would be asleep as well only that I need the money. :D
    Where abouts could I meet up with you? PM me if you wish


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  • #7
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭dev110


    ronn wrote: »
    what does twist mean i see you have 1:9 and someone else getting the same rifle with a 1:8:confused: what would that mean

    This link could explain it for you.


  • #8
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    dev110 wrote: »
    Morning 7am-3pm.
    I would be asleep as well only that I need the money. :D
    Where abouts could I meet up with you? PM me if you wish

    PM Sent


  • #9
    clivej
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,207 ✭✭✭clivej


    dev110 wrote: »
    Hi Lads and Lassies,

    Following the previous advice and help from board members I have a substitution going through for a CZ 527 Varmint Kevlar .223 with 1:9 twist and a Burris Fullfield II 6.5-20x50 waiting to go on top of it.

    As from the title suggests I am asking what is the best ammo for long range hunting.
    I have done my research and have found from other board members with the same rifle that Hornady V-max 40gr and 55gr, Federal V-Shock 40gr and 50gr and American Eagle 50gr HP goes well in the rifle.

    I really asking the board members with the same rifle to give their advice on rounds they have used and have found successful at longer ranges say past 300 yrds.

    Thanks in advance

    Dev


    A good choice of rifle if I do say so myself.;)
    Tack only wants to get his hands on a REAL gun instead of that remington that he keeps pimping up :rolleyes:

    As to rounds I have only shot out to the 300m on the range and don't find much in the difference between the V-Max 40 or 55, V-Shok 50 or the AE hollow points.
    That CZ varmint shoots sub MOA so you should be able to get under 2" @300m but again it will depend on the ammo used. But don't bust yourself up to much trying to get out there to soon just take it easy for a while.

    The best I ever got was 28mm, 1 1/8" @300m using 40gr V-Max but if I get it under MOA out that far I'm happy enough. The thing to remember is that the kill zone on a fox is bigger at 300m so if it shoots 4" @300 your still drop him dead.

    I think my first post on these forums, 10-12-2007, @ 20:36, was about the kill zone on a fox and here is the image I used. You can see how big a target you have.
    Looking at that image now the intersecting line at B-C and 2-3 is the perfect shot placement but I'd say if you hit him most anywhere in the 4 boxes of B+C and 2+3 with a balistic tipped round he wont go far. Or of course if your happy with a head shot then between the eyes will do the business.

    foxkillzone.jpg


  • #10
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    Ur right clive. I've only ever wanted a cz not. Lol.


  • #11
    clivej
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,207 ✭✭✭clivej


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Ur right clive. I've only ever wanted a cz not. Lol.

    Here is a gun KNOT but NOT a CZ not ;).


    KnotRevo.jpg


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  • #12
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    clivej wrote: »
    Here is a gun KNOT but NOT a CZ not ;).


    KnotRevo.jpg

    The Only CZ I'd have any interest in!
    AJS-37a-Trials-1.jpg


  • #13
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    Had a good laugh with the OP this afternoon.
    Must do it again next week weather permitting.

    We saw 2 foxes @ what I had guessed was 400yards (I forgot the range finder)

    I fired and missed foxes took off.

    Foxes rang from sight and we were offered no more shots.

    We decided we'd step out the range and take the average between us, I stepped 310 yards, Dev 304 yards.

    There was a hill so the range was hard to step accurately.
    Then to be scientific we said we would see what the Rifle was doing at 300.

    We put up a zeroing target.
    I fired @ the top left corner with my 200 yard zero.
    The below is teh results.

    Lesson's leaned
    • Buy U-Caller (Or get a loan of Dev's)
    • Bring Range Finder everywhere
    • Don't forget to allowfor wind @300 yards!

    Dev was glad to see what exactly a .223 could do @ 300 yards and is now confident that he soon will be doing the same.

    An enjoyable afternoon :D (pity I messed up on range estimation, It's amazing, had not used the .223 in weeks and ya get rusty at long range varminting)


  • #14
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭dev110


    clivej wrote: »
    A good choice of rifle if I do say so myself.;)
    Tack only wants to get his hands on a REAL gun instead of that remington that he keeps pimping up :rolleyes:

    As to rounds I have only shot out to the 300m on the range and don't find much in the difference between the V-Max 40 or 55, V-Shok 50 or the AE hollow points.
    That CZ varmint shoots sub MOA so you should be able to get under 2" @300m but again it will depend on the ammo used. But don't bust yourself up to much trying to get out there to soon just take it easy for a while.

    The best I ever got was 28mm, 1 1/8" @300m using 40gr V-Max but if I get it under MOA out that far I'm happy enough. The thing to remember is that the kill zone on a fox is bigger at 300m so if it shoots 4" @300 your still drop him dead.

    I think my first post on these forums, 10-12-2007, @ 20:36, was about the kill zone on a fox and here is the image I used. You can see how big a target you have.
    Looking at that image now the intersecting line at B-C and 2-3 is the perfect shot placement but I'd say if you hit him most anywhere in the 4 boxes of B+C and 2+3 with a balistic tipped round he wont go far. Or of course if your happy with a head shot then between the eyes will do the business.

    Clive the "pimped" rifle is doing its job well and after the next "pimp" will be the ultimate rifle ;)

    I think what I will do about the ammo is use the american eagle hollow points and then use the v-max/v-shock when I decide to go on specific foxing days.

    I would love to find a heavier bullet for say a 350m range as after today a 8mph wind moved the bullet around 4 inchs and I would be interesting would it ride the wind better. But I can't fault the 55gr v-max either.


  • #15
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭dev110


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Had a good laugh with the OP this afternoon.
    Must do it again next week weather permitting.

    We saw 2 foxes @ what I had guessed was 400yards (I forgot the range finder)

    I fired and missed foxes took off.

    Foxes rang from sight and we were offered no more shots.

    We decided we'd step out the range and take the average between us, I stepped 310 yards, Dev 304 yards.

    There was a hill so the range was hard to step accurately.
    Then to be scientific we said we would see what the Rifle was doing at 300.

    We put up a zeroing target.
    I fired @ the top left corner with my 200 yard zero.
    The below is teh results.

    Lesson's leaned
    • Buy U-Caller (Or get a loan of Dev's)
    • Bring Range Finder everywhere
    • Don't forget to allowfor wind @300 yards!

    Dev was glad to see what exactly a .223 could do @ 300 yards and is now confident that he soon will be doing the same.

    An enjoyable afternoon :D (pity I messed up on range estimation, It's amazing, had not used the .223 in weeks and ya get rusty at long range varminting)

    Have to thank Tack again for taking me out and showing what a .223 is capable of!!
    Had a great time!!

    I would have love to have seen what a 55gr V-max would have done to the fox at that distance.

    Tack also showed me how range finding is crucial especially at the longer ranges, well tbh any range.

    Also have to say I love that pic :p


  • #16
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    ...........Don't forget to allowfor wind @300 yards!..........

    That's why you should use a .204 Ruger, much better at bucking the wind than .223 ;)


  • #17
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    bunny shooter wrote: »
    That's why you should use a .204 Ruger, much better at bucking the wind than .223 ;)

    wind 4.5" Overholding 14" :eek::eek:
    I'd aimed in teh boiler house, I put it over his back.

    Nice to see two foxes mid day.

    I still got a nice tidy group @300 yards

    (Had I aimed correctly I would have still dropped it :o)

    Was worse coz I had an audience.


  • #18
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    dev110 wrote: »
    Clive the "pimped" rifle is doing its job well and after the next "pimp" will be the ultimate rifle ;)

    I think what I will do about the ammo is use the american eagle hollow points and then use the v-max/v-shock when I decide to go on specific foxing days.

    I would love to find a heavier bullet for say a 350m range as after today a 8mph wind moved the bullet around 4 inchs and I would be interesting would it ride the wind better. But I can't fault the 55gr v-max either.

    You should try the 68 Grain stuff in the CZ. Should group well.

    If yer around next Sunday give me a hollar!


  • #19
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭dev110


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    You should try the 68 Grain stuff in the CZ. Should group well.

    If yer around next Sunday give me a hollar!

    I think I will stick with the hornady stuff well thats it I can afford it :D

    I'm off all next weekend so if your up for anything let me know.


  • #20
    poulo6.5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭poulo6.5


    dev110 wrote: »
    Have to thank Tack again for taking me out and showing what a .223 is capable of!!
    Had a great time!!

    I would have love to have seen what a 55gr V-max would have done to the fox at that distance.

    Tack also showed me how range finding is crucial especially at the longer ranges, well tbh any range.

    Also have to say I love that pic :p

    55gr v-max is an excellent round. i have a 400m kill on a fox using them.

    i am using 50gr v-max at the moment and at 300y it will do this to a fox

    3484cc63.jpg

    here is a vid of a rabbit i shot at 307y with 55gr v-max

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FmlwzbWkEk

    and if you want to shoot 75gr hornady BTHP match you can get a 3 shot group like this

    pauln85186.jpg

    that is a 6" steel plate at 500y 3 shots in less than 2".

    i'm fairly sure that .223 is capable of more of the same even further, i just need to get around to it. maybe this summer.


  • #21
    4gun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭4gun


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    wind 4.5" Overholding 14" :eek::eek:
    I'd aimed in teh boiler house, I put it over his back.

    Nice to see two foxes mid day.

    I still got a nice tidy group @300 yards

    (Had I aimed correctly I would have still dropped it :o)

    Was worse coz I had an audience.

    they knew you were about:D..should have used the Czee ;)


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  • #22
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭dev110


    poulo6.5 wrote: »
    55gr v-max is an excellent round. i have a 400m kill on a fox using them.

    i am using 50gr v-max at the moment and at 300y it will do this to a fox

    here is a vid of a rabbit i shot at 307y with 55gr v-max

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FmlwzbWkEk

    and if you want to shoot 75gr hornady BTHP match you can get a 3 shot group like this

    that is a 6" steel plate at 500y 3 shots in less than 2".

    i'm fairly sure that .223 is capable of more of the same even further, i just need to get around to it. maybe this summer.

    I have seen plenty of pics and it looks like a devastating round but I would loved to have seen it 1st hand.

    Nice shooting on that rabbit btw!

    Do you think a 1:9 twist be enough for it was I know yours is 1:8.

    I think when I get the rifle I will use FMJ ammo to get practice in and then either try get the American eagle HP and when I have finished with "the new toy fever" I'll move on to the hornady or federal as I will pick my shots.


  • #23
    dev110
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭dev110


    4gun wrote: »
    they knew you were about:D..should have used the Czee ;)

    I don't have the CZ as of yet but even if I did I wouldn't try shooting that distance as I wouldn't want to injure the target and not take it cleanly.


  • #24
    Vegeta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    OK controversial alert here, 75grain hornady BTHP are target rounds but retain a lot of energy compared to the 55 grain V Max.

    Anyone ever shoot a fox with one? What are the terminal ballistics like?


  • #25
    poulo6.5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭poulo6.5


    dev110 wrote: »
    I have seen plenty of pics and it looks like a devastating round but I would loved to have seen it 1st hand.

    Nice shooting on that rabbit btw!

    Do you think a 1:9 twist be enough for it was I know yours is 1:8.

    I think when I get the rifle I will use FMJ ammo to get practice in and then either try get the American eagle HP and when I have finished with "the new toy fever" I'll move on to the hornady or federal as I will pick my shots.


    i went threw a lot of cheaper ammo and i found it ok for practice and i had great fun with it.
    the best thing you can do is get trigger time.
    as you get more experienced you will want the better ammo to complement your ability to shoot.

    once you get used to the rifle and how it handles you will be shooting bunnies in the head from longer and longer ranges.

    have fun and keep shooting


  • #26
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    4gun wrote: »
    they knew you were about:D..should have used the Czee ;)

    Look, I fckud up, I normally carry my Nikon Range finder (however I had teh jeep cleaned out for a DOE test last week and never restocked it)

    The rifle is capeable of 1/2" @300 yards.

    For a factory barrel with 55grain I think that ain't too bad.

    (I wonder what would happen if I went custom barrel ;) )
    Unfortunately I have no idea where to find a guy to tweak my rifle;)


  • #27
    4gun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭4gun


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Look, I fckud up, I normally carry my Nikon Range finder (however I had teh jeep cleaned out for a DOE test last week and never restocked it)

    The rifle is capeable of 1/2" @300 yards.

    For a factory barrel with 55grain I think that ain't too bad.

    (I wonder what would happen if I went custom barrel ;) )
    Unfortunately I have no idea where to find a guy to tweak my rifle;)


    dont take it personally.. i have missed the feckers at less that 100 if your getting 1/2" @300yards...why the hell do you feel the need to tweek your gun...
    If it aint broke...don't fix it


  • #28
    poulo6.5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭poulo6.5


    Vegeta wrote: »
    OK controversial alert here, 75grain hornady BTHP are target rounds but retain a lot of energy compared to the 55 grain V Max.

    Anyone ever shoot a fox with one? What are the terminal ballistics like?

    hornady state on their website that both the 75gr BTHP AND 75gr a-max arenot suitable for large game as the expand to quickly for heave boned animals.
    i am reading between the lines here but that would suggest to me that they would be ideal for fox size animals.

    at 500y they have great energy left i think over 500ftlb but i will have to check that to be sure

    i have put the feelers out to find some 75 gr superformance .
    if i can get my hands on that i think i will have the perfect round.

    ps if anyone can find some please let me know


  • #29
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    4gun wrote: »
    dont take it personally.. i have missed the feckers at less that 100 if your getting 1/2" @300yards...why the hell do you feel the need to tweek your gun...
    If it aint broke...don't fix it

    Because if I want to get the same groups @ 1000 I need a heavier round :D

    Love to give F/TR a go!

    http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-75-gr-bthp-Superformance-match/

    TBH, I get a lot of fun out of tweaking, changing,experimenting etc

    Also, I'd like a shorter barrel that could get the same or better results


  • #30
    poulo6.5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭poulo6.5


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Because if I want to get the same groups @ 1000 I need a heavier round :D

    Love to give F/TR a go!

    http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-75-gr-bthp-Superformance-match/

    TBH, I get a lot of fun out of tweaking, changing,experimenting etc

    Also, I'd like a shorter barrel that could get the same or better results

    thats the one tack thanks


    Ballistics

    Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
    MUZZLE 100 200 300 400 500
    2930/1429 2694/1209 2470/1016 2257/848 2055/703 1863/578
    Trajectory (inches)
    MUZZLE 100 200 300 400 500
    -2.40 1.20 0.00 -6.90 -20.70 -42.70


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  • #31
    clivej
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,207 ✭✭✭clivej


    dev110 wrote: »
    I have seen plenty of pics and it looks like a devastating round but I would loved to have seen it 1st hand.

    Nice shooting on that rabbit btw!

    Do you think a 1:9 twist be enough for it was I know yours is 1:8.

    I think when I get the rifle I will use FMJ ammo to get practice in and then either try get the American eagle HP and when I have finished with "the new toy fever" I'll move on to the hornady or federal as I will pick my shots.

    Just use the FMJ for breaking in the barrel as the grouping can put you off. Then use the AE hollow points as the difference in price is not much.


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