Mother died of hypothermia after council turned heat off

ejmaztec · 29-01-2011 07:32PM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

And to add to that, she was told it was happening!!

In that case they should have found her somewhere else to stay, the local authority being the responsible land-lord in this case.

Spudmonkey · 29-01-2011 07:33PM

Godwinned.... :rolleyes:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-01-2011 07:33PM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

She took it upon herself to stay in that apartment in sub zero temperatures knowing full well what temperatures were like at that time of the year. That's her fault.

Had she been pro-active in looking for another place to stay, she wouldn't have died (I'm sorry but I don't buy the argument that she couldn't have stayed somewhere else). That's simple enough too.

There are two sides to every argument.

What exactly was she thinking. Staying in her own home. Silly bint should have took up and left as soon as there was any problems. It's so simple to do, leaving your home and all your belongings. Why didn't she go to the local hotel? 60 quid a night, lovely comfy warm beds. It's definately 100% her own fault for staying in her own home.

If there's ever a problem you should always assume that they have somewhere to go, you should alway assume they are just selfish attention whores, that nobody else differs from yourself... :rolleyes:

You haven't a clue about her situation. Just assumptions. Will you be voting FF in the not so distant future? It's this type of thinking that lets things like this happen. Ignore the wreckless actions of those in a position of power and blame it on the dead woman... good one... :rolleyes:

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah but was it as straightforward as the council just deciding to switch off the heating? I'm absolutely not apportioning blame to the woman, but I'd like to think there was less callousness on the council's part.

Not 100%, just going by what the article reads. That's all the information I have on the story.

I am finding it difficult to believe that they were anything but callous. Surely they can understand that no heating in the winter = extremely bad.

Spudmonkey · 29-01-2011 07:36PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

In that case they should have found her somewhere else to stay, the local authority being the responsible land-lord in this case.

Other flats in that block were empty as regeneration was ongoing. I'm sorry but have to proof that they didn't try to re-house her?

Or is that just an assumption?

Caoimhín · 29-01-2011 07:37PM

Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: »

You haven't a clue about her situation. Just assumptions. ... :rolleyes:

In the same post as;

Not 100%, just going by what the article reads. That's all the information I have on the story.

?

ejmaztec · 29-01-2011 07:38PM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Godwinned.... :rolleyes:

You must have choked on your cocoa when that happened.

Cheap Thrills! · 29-01-2011 07:43PM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

She took it upon herself to stay in that apartment in sub zero temperatures knowing full well what temperatures were like at that time of the year. That's her fault.

Had she been pro-active in looking for another place to stay, she wouldn't have died (I'm sorry but I don't buy the argument that she couldn't have stayed somewhere else). That's simple enough too.

There are two sides to every argument.

She didn't know she was going to die by staying in the flat!!!

Maybe she had no choice only to stay there, nobody knows her circumstances. It doesn't matter that you don't buy it, no-ones trying to sell it!!

There's no way she realised she could die by staying at home. I'm sure loads of people stayed in houses with no heating/water/power during those cold snaps and never expected to die either.

banquo · 29-01-2011 07:43PM

Re: her freezing vs a homeless person not freezing. Just to mention that she was in one of the flats and thus was much higher up, where it's a lot colder.

The lady in question had made both written and personal appeals to her local TD, Noel Ahern, for either the heating to be turned on for a limited time each night, or for a contribution to purchase an alternative form of heating.

(I live in the Ballymun area.)

Dyr · 29-01-2011 07:45PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

I'm not exactly a charitable individual, but even I can't believe some of the crap that some people have posted on this thread.

.

Idiocy must be like hypothermia, people don't know they have it unless they're told.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-01-2011 07:49PM

Caoimhín wrote: »

In the same post as;

?

Problem?

What correlation are you trying to suggest?

Caoimhín · 29-01-2011 07:51PM

banquo wrote: »

(I live in the Ballymun area.)

Do you know if the heating was broken or if the council turned it off?

BostonB · 29-01-2011 08:03PM

banquo wrote: »

...The lady in question had made both written and personal appeals to her local TD, Noel Ahern, for either the heating to be turned on for a limited time each night, or for a contribution to purchase an alternative form of heating.

(I live in the Ballymun area.)

One paper says they appealed to have it fixed.

ejmaztec · 29-01-2011 08:04PM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Other flats in that block were empty as regeneration was ongoing. I'm sorry but have to proof that they didn't try to re-house her?

Or is that just an assumption?

The greatest assumption that I would make, is that a local authority wouldn't make any of its properties uninhabitable, without providing alternative accommodation for its tenants.

Another assumption I'm making is that the Council is probably busily looking for a scapegoat to get itself off the hook.

Gulliver · 29-01-2011 08:09PM

Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: »

You haven't actually read the article, have you?

Yes, I did read it. She contacted the Minister for Housing to get the matter fixed. She contacted the council. There was NO mention in the article that she had tried to keep her body warm on the night in question.

Look, I'm not bashing the poor woman that died, it's the reaction that "the council KILLED her" that annoys me. The second article says she had a "borderline personality disorder". If true,why was she left alone in a freezing flat? Why didn't the HSE step in and get her fast-tracked?

dublin99 · 29-01-2011 08:19PM

The heating system was deliberately turned off to save money as the whole block had to be heated and there were only a few tenants living in it - a lot of heat would be wasted in the vacant derelict flats, many with no windows etc...

Dublin City Council had no regard for their responsibility as accomodation provider/ landlord. Perhaps all these civil servants should be moved from their posh city offices and rehoused in the empty Ballymun flats with no heating for a week during the next cold snap! Talking about a taste of their own medicine.

Dudess · 29-01-2011 08:22PM

Yeah, because office lackeys are personally responsible for their managers' decisions.

If the block was mostly unoccupied though, had she been given a directive to vacate the flat?

Although:

Irish Examiner wrote:

The inquest heard how she had contacted Dublin City Council in relation to the matter but was told the heating would not be turned back on as a number of flats around her had been vacated and were empty and because regeneration was ongoing.

Feck it, that's harsh. And why should she stay somewhere else? That was her home. What if she had nowhere else to go? Did the council just assume she had access to an alternative source of heat?

I find it hard to believe the council could have been that unthinking, it's not in the business of deliberately letting people die - still though, a dreadful mistake by them...

Had it foreseen the consequences, it would surely be required to provide her and other occupants with alternative accommodation.

Caoimhín · 29-01-2011 08:23PM

dublin99 wrote: »

The heating system was deliberately turned off to save money as the whole block had to be heated and there were only a few tenants living in it - a lot of heat would be wasted in the vacant derelict flats, many with no windows etc...

If that is indeed the case then there should be an investigation into the matter.

BostonB · 29-01-2011 08:26PM

dublin99 wrote: »

The heating system was deliberately turned off to save money as the whole block had to be heated and there were only a few tenants living in it - a lot of heat would be wasted in the vacant derelict flats, many with no windows etc...

Dublin City Council had no regard for their responsibility as accomodation provider/ landlord. Perhaps all these civil servants should be moved from their posh city offices and rehoused in the empty Ballymun flats with no heating for a week during the next cold snap! Talking about a taste of their own medicine.

If it was turned off, why were they appealing to have it "fixed".

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-01-2011 08:32PM

Gulliver wrote: »

Yes, I did read it. She contacted the Minister for Housing to get the matter fixed. She contacted the council. There was NO mention in the article that she had tried to keep her body warm on the night in question.

Look, I'm not bashing the poor woman that died, it's the reaction that "the council KILLED her" that annoys me. The second article says she had a "borderline personality disorder". If true,why was she left alone in a freezing flat? Why didn't the HSE step in and get her fast-tracked?

It doesn't say she didn't try to keep herself warm either.

The decision that the council made lead to her death.

Not sure what the following has to do with anything.

The victim, who had a borderline personality disorder, also suffered from back pain.

Kennie1 · 29-01-2011 08:33PM

Caoimhín wrote: »

Would it be cold hearted to suggest that if she had no obvious physical or psychological problems, why is it societies responsibility to keep her warm?

Yes it is cold hearted. We are supposed to live in a civilised country for pitys sake.

RIP and thoughts for her children and family.

dublin99 · 29-01-2011 08:49PM

Dudess wrote: »

If the block was mostly unoccupied though, had she been given a directive to vacate the flat?

She had been on a waiting list to be rehoused by the council but apparently was not a priority case even she had two young children. Anyone with a choice would get out of that place pronto.

Ironically, if she had rented from a private landlord (say with rent allowance) she is legally entitled to certain standards in the flat in terms of heating etc. If heating/water etc if off for an extended period of time, she could have been entitled to alternative accomodation at the landlords expense and any disputes would be dealt with by the PRTB. Unfortunately you have no such rights even to basic heating when your landlord is a public body.

jackiebaron · 29-01-2011 08:54PM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

:mad:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0129/1224288526625.html
I have never before heard of the likes of this, basically someone needs to be done for manslaughter.

Haven't read through the posts but have the usual suspects come out saying she's only got herself to blame?

BostonB · 29-01-2011 09:02PM

dublin99 wrote: »

....If heating/water etc if off for an extended period of time, she could have been entitled to alternative accomodation at the landlords expense....

I don't think thats true. Can you back that up with anything?

Ditto, the heating was deliberately turned off, rather than broken?

maringo · 29-01-2011 09:02PM

a person on their own suffering from hypothermia would be very vulnerable.

The Mayo Clinic describe hypothermia on as follows:
Symptoms By Mayo Clinic staff
Shivering is your body's automatic defense against cold temperature — an attempt to warm itself. Constant shivering is a key sign of hypothermia. Signs and symptoms of hypothermia include:
* Shivering
* Clumsiness or lack of coordination
* Slurred speech or mumbling
* Stumbling
* Confusion or difficulty thinking
* Poor decision making, such as trying to remove warm clothes
* Drowsiness or very low energy
* Apathy, or lack of concern about one's condition
* Progressive loss of consciousness
* Weak pulse
* Shallow breathing
A person with hypothermia usually isn't aware of his or her condition, because the symptoms often begin gradually and because the confused thinking associated with hypothermia prevents self-awareness.

BostonB · 29-01-2011 09:30PM

Hypothermia isn't the question. The question is why did she want to stay in the house with no heating.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-01-2011 09:56PM

banquo wrote: »

or for a contribution to purchase an alternative form of heating.

I missed that bit earlier

Cheap Thrills! · 29-01-2011 10:00PM

BostonB wrote: »

Hypothermia isn't the question. The question is why did she want to stay in the house with no heating.

What makes you think she wanted to stay there?

BostonB · 29-01-2011 11:47PM

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

What makes you think she wanted to stay there?

Don't get hung up on a word. I'll rephrase it. The question is why did she stay in a place with no heating. To say she had no choice, or that she had choice is to make an assumption based on no information.

Its just so sad.

Cheap Thrills! · 30-01-2011 12:03AM

BostonB wrote: »

Don't get hung up on a word. I'll rephrase it. The question is why did she stay in a place with no heating. To say she had no choice, or that she had choice is to make an assumption based on no information.

Its just so sad.

Yes, we don't know if she had a choice.

But the sad thing is no way did she realise she would die by staying there.

Lots of people probably did the same in cold snaps and were ok. You wouldn't reasonably expect to die.

Poor girl

A Dub in Glasgo · 30-01-2011 12:26AM

My God, I have never seen such idiotic postings like some of those in this thread (and I post primarily on politics and soccer forums!!)

Mother died of hypothermia after council turned heat off

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