Information sharing & ideas

reilig · 27-01-2011 11:41AM #1

All reports are that prices across the board are going up. We'll get more for our cattle, sheep and milk. But Fertilizer, oil and feed prices are on the up too and these will cancel out any gains made on farm sales.

I believe that now is the time to plan for the next 3 to 5 years. Stock numbers, crops, fertilizer and fuel usage. I have started to look at different things. First step last week was to get new wheels for the slurry tanker so that I can get out on more land with slurry earlier and reap the full benefit of my slurry and reduce the amount of fertilizer that i use.

One of my biggest expenses lies with buying feed for cattle. I go through between 30 and 40 ton per year. I creep feed heavily in late summer and autumn and I keep half of my weinlings over the winter to be sold in February and March - they also get ration. Reducing the amount of ration that I feed will have a direct effect on my weinling prices.

So what's the solution? I don't have great land - some of it was used years ago for crops, but even if I did grow my own crop, there isn't a harvester within 50 miles to harvest it for me. Is anybody growing kale? What about arable silage - is it any good for fattening cattle??

Forward creep feeding calves on grass is something that i could do a bit better, but it is no substitute for creep.

What do people intend to do, what are your plans???

Pat the lad · 27-01-2011 01:04PM

Reilig - I was thinking something similar over the weekend.
Some of the things that I have done/thinking of doing is
1) Invested Sheds/Slatts - slurry storage - Makes life alot easier for feeding herding etc but also I will have alot more slurry now as opposed to dung (Straw only for beeding calves now:D). Like your self I'll be reviewing when I spread slurry from now on i.e. spread to grow grass as opposed to getting rid of it. Looking at a new slurry tanker with bigger LGP tyres - was having a few points with neighbour/good friend at the weekend - said we would think about sharing 2nd hand tanker/Injection system - could of being the drink talking!!!
2) Genetic's - Trying to get cows to the best quailty possible - thus bred better calves -After all the cow contributes 50% towards the calve - the Poor bull always gets the blame

. Also Continue to use AI to bred calves/weanlings. Looking at going all pure bred cows (Limo and/or some Parthenaise - and a)then bred all pure calves for selling as weanlings or b)crossing 90% of them to BB AI bulls????
3) Silage - will make wrapped silage for the Autumn calves, with possibly going fully baled silage for all stock. I think its more consistent in quailty than pit silage. I have a good mower myself anyway - so can cut with ready/dry and let it wilt etc to get the best quality - not when the contractor can get to me.
4) Up the anti on reseeding - reseed a few acres every year - introduce clover - (less fertilizer needed etc) into pastures and maybe red clover for silage!!!!
5) To get the best prices for weanlings I don't think I'll be cutting back too much on meal - unless I could supplement it with wholecrop/arble silage - the combicrop on another thread looks interesting.
I don't think Kale is a runner with my ground, plus I think there is alot of hidden costs/labour (maybe

) with it too.
6) This year I will be getting the calves out by day from early Feb - and will be grassing them ahead of the cows in spring/summer

Unfortunatly was you see - to make savings - you have to spend!!!!!! Its a Vicious circle!!!! But you have to think long term:rolleyes:

jeff greene · 27-01-2011 01:54PM

Pat the lad wrote: »

Reilig - I was thinking something similar over the weekend.
Some of the things that I have done/thinking of doing is
1) Invested Sheds/Slatts - slurry storage - Makes life alot easier for feeding herding etc but also I will have alot more slurry now as opposed to dung (Straw only for beeding calves now:D). Like your self I'll be reviewing when I spread slurry from now on i.e. spread to grow grass as opposed to getting rid of it. Looking at a new slurry tanker with bigger LGP tyres - was having a few points with neighbour/good friend at the weekend - said we would think about sharing 2nd hand tanker/Injection system - could of being the drink talking!!!
2) Genetic's - Trying to get cows to the best quailty possible - thus bred better calves -After all the cow contributes 50% towards the calve - the Poor bull always gets the blame . Also Continue to use AI to bred calves/weanlings. Looking at going all pure bred cows (Limo and/or some Parthenaise - and a)then bred all pure calves for selling as weanlings or b)crossing 90% of them to BB AI bulls????
3) Silage - will make wrapped silage for the Autumn calves, with possibly going fully baled silage for all stock. I think its more consistent in quailty than pit silage. I have a good mower myself anyway - so can cut with ready/dry and let it wilt etc to get the best quality - not when the contractor can get to me.
4) Up the anti on reseeding - reseed a few acres every year - introduce clover - (less fertilizer needed etc) into pastures and maybe red clover for silage!!!!
5) To get the best prices for weanlings I don't think I'll be cutting back too much on meal - unless I could supplement it with wholecrop/arble silage - the combicrop on another thread looks interesting.
I don't think Kale is a runner with my ground, plus I think there is alot of hidden costs/labour (maybe) with it too.
6) This year I will be getting the calves out by day from early Feb - and will be grassing them ahead of the cows in spring/summer

Unfortunatly was you see - to make savings - you have to spend!!!!!! Its a Vicious circle!!!! But you have to think long term:rolleyes:

Excellent post, not much to add except maybe look in to buying grain off combine as crimp, excellent feed.
Soil testing will make you money by either saving on fert or increasing production
Join a Purchasing Group?

reilig · 27-01-2011 02:20PM

jeff greene wrote: »

Excellent post, not much to add except maybe look in to buying grain off combine as crimp, excellent feed.
Soil testing will make you money by either saving on fert or increasing production
Join a Purchasing Group?

What does crimping involve?? Is it rolling and then spraying with an acid and then making a clamp of it???

Does anyone get value out of a purchasing group?? I was with buyrite for a few years and found little or no value out of it. They have terrible credit terms for fertilizer and I found that if i was willing to pay upfront to my local co-op, they could often do as good as buyrite on price, and I wouldn't be lumped with a full load of fertilizer - almost half of which I would have to convince neighbours or family members to buy off me.

Teagasc recommend that you add protein to grain feed if you are trying to fatten cattle

http://www.teagasc.ie/newsletters/farmingtips/2009/dairy-20090811.asp

How many people are feeding the grain without protein additions and still doing a good job on cattle???

jeff greene · 27-01-2011 02:48PM

reilig wrote: »

What does crimping involve?? Is it rolling and then spraying with an acid and then making a clamp of it???

Everything you need to know about crimping is here.
http://www.kelvincave.com/crimping.html

You can buy it at harvest time ready to clamp.

MfMan · 27-01-2011 03:04PM

reilig wrote: »

All reports are that prices across the board are going up. We'll get more for our cattle, sheep and milk. But Fertilizer, oil and feed prices are on the up too and these will cancel out any gains made on farm sales.

I believe that now is the time to plan for the next 3 to 5 years. Stock numbers, crops, fertilizer and fuel usage. I have started to look at different things. First step last week was to get new wheels for the slurry tanker so that I can get out on more land with slurry earlier and reap the full benefit of my slurry and reduce the amount of fertilizer that i use.

One of my biggest expenses lies with buying feed for cattle. I go through between 30 and 40 ton per year. I creep feed heavily in late summer and autumn and I keep half of my weinlings over the winter to be sold in February and March - they also get ration. Reducing the amount of ration that I feed will have a direct effect on my weinling prices.

So what's the solution? I don't have great land - some of it was used years ago for crops, but even if I did grow my own crop, there isn't a harvester within 50 miles to harvest it for me. Is anybody growing kale? What about arable silage - is it any good for fattening cattle??

Forward creep feeding calves on grass is something that i could do a bit better, but it is no substitute for creep.

What do people intend to do, what are your plans???

In order to make savings, you need to know where your expenses are going. Looking at my own rough figures for year end 2010, I've spent near enough 20k on small and / or non-recurring stuff. Things like gates, fencing supplies, machine and plant hire, even water fittings, nuts and bolts etc. I know you'll always need these, but sometimes I've found that after going out buying something, I've come home to find I already had it hidden away in a shed.

In any event, much of the stuff I've gotten was necessary or used to improve some situation at home. I wouldn't skimp on improvements like better gates, fencing, handling facilities, fixing leaky fittings etc. Equally, I wouldn't leave livestock short of necessary feeding or skimp on land improvements, drainage etc. as these are real investments.

leg wax · 27-01-2011 03:38PM

i have been on 2 farms in the last 3 months both in wexford and i have seen silage saved in bales but covered like a pit, both farms were doing it this way for years ,straight away i was concerned about wastage, but after looking at the bales in the pit i have to say i was very impressed, i can see myself saveing 3000euros on 700 bales.i am going back in two weeks on way home from carnew mart to check the bales again before i make up my mind. i see great saveing in weaning the autumn born calves in april as the cow can go on to bare paddocks for the summer and will be in top condition at calving in aug, a small amount of fert will keep quality grass for the calves plus meal , also this year the spring born calves were taken off the cows in august and when the cows came in they were in top condition and are now only costing me 55 cent a day to feed on hay straw silage, if i had left the calves under them longer they would need a lot more silage which this year cost me 19.50 a bale to make.i have 30 acres more grass this year to graze so cows and calves will start to go outin 2 weeks time a small number at a time but it depends on weather,i am thinking about delaying my first cut of silage till june this year as i am finding that the real grass spurt is getting later and later and if i can hold off spreading fert till mid may for all ground[ except for weaned calves] and try and match silage stopping and autumn born calves been sold.also i am always on the look out for better cows and heifers as in the end of the day they pay the bills , a good cow costs the same to keep as a bad cow on this farm.

reilig · 27-01-2011 03:42PM

a good cow costs the same to keep as a bad cow on this farm

Never a truer word spoken.

vanderbadger · 27-01-2011 03:54PM

leg wax wrote: »

i have been on 2 farms in the last 3 months both in wexford and i have seen silage saved in bales but covered like a pit, both farms were doing it this way for years ,straight away i was concerned about wastage, but after looking at the bales in the pit i have to say i was very impressed, i can see myself saveing 3000euros on 700 bales.i am going back in two weeks on way home from carnew mart to check the bales again before i make up my mind. i see great saveing in weaning the autumn born calves in april as the cow can go on to bare paddocks for the summer and will be in top condition at calving in aug, a small amount of fert will keep quality grass for the calves plus meal , also this year the spring born calves were taken off the cows in august and when the cows came in they were in top condition and are now only costing me 55 cent a day to feed on hay straw silage, if i had left the calves under them longer they would need a lot more silage which this year cost me 19.50 a bale to make.i have 30 acres more grass this year to graze so cows and calves will start to go outin 2 weeks time a small number at a time but it depends on weather,i am thinking about delaying my first cut of silage till june this year as i am finding that the real grass spurt is getting later and later and if i can hold off spreading fert till mid may for all ground[ except for weaned calves] and try and match silage stopping and autumn born calves been sold.also i am always on the look out for better cows and heifers as in the end of the day they pay the bills , a good cow costs the same to keep as a bad cow on this farm.

have never seen that either wax..were the stacked standing upright?

leg wax · 27-01-2011 03:59PM

vanderbadger wrote: »

have never seen that either wax..were the stacked standing upright?

no they were on their side and only 2 bales high.

jeff greene · 27-01-2011 04:06PM

leg wax wrote: »

i have been on 2 farms in the last 3 months both in wexford and i have seen silage saved in bales but covered like a pit, both farms were doing it this way for years ,straight away i was concerned about wastage, but after looking at the bales in the pit i have to say i was very impressed, i can see myself saveing 3000euros on 700 bales.i am going back in two weeks on way home from carnew mart to check the bales again before i make up my mind.

Round bales? Interested to know how they make it work. Bales must be very wet to seal. It not somewhere I would be skimping on, saving €3,000 on €20,000 worth of bales when you could loose the lot, if it all went wrong.

ihatetractors · 27-01-2011 06:20PM

Have gone through projected account there start of January, (though last few years the've beeen a bit different come December, last year was a nice suprise.

-Dairy herd stand to make a decent enough profit as long as weather holds up and don't have too many unexpected changes.
-Grain,.. Taking on another 100 acres this year, plan was to sow abit of oats but since they've gone stone mad for seed i'd say it'll be feed wheat now.
Have done guesstimations on barley and we'll need about €345 to an acre to break even, as long as fert stays somewhere okish, that could push it easily into €375+ region and as for diesel, lets hope machines like fumes.

If this year goes well thinking of trading the tractor in, everything else is grandd for next odd 5-7 years

reilig · 27-01-2011 09:41PM

Years ago we used to put bales into a pit - they were from land that had poor access for a harvester, but we always did it the day before the harvester arrived and we put the grass on top of the bales. It always worked out perfect. Don't know how east ir would be to seal the bales if you hadn't grass between and on top of them to stop air circulating??

leg wax wrote: »

i have been on 2 farms in the last 3 months both in wexford and i have seen silage saved in bales but covered like a pit, both farms were doing it this way for years ,straight away i was concerned about wastage, but after looking at the bales in the pit i have to say i was very impressed, i can see myself saveing 3000euros on 700 bales.i am going back in two weeks on way home from carnew mart to check the bales again before i make up my mind. i see great saveing in weaning the autumn born calves in april as the cow can go on to bare paddocks for the summer and will be in top condition at calving in aug, a small amount of fert will keep quality grass for the calves plus meal , also this year the spring born calves were taken off the cows in august and when the cows came in they were in top condition and are now only costing me 55 cent a day to feed on hay straw silage, if i had left the calves under them longer they would need a lot more silage which this year cost me 19.50 a bale to make.i have 30 acres more grass this year to graze so cows and calves will start to go outin 2 weeks time a small number at a time but it depends on weather,i am thinking about delaying my first cut of silage till june this year as i am finding that the real grass spurt is getting later and later and if i can hold off spreading fert till mid may for all ground[ except for weaned calves] and try and match silage stopping and autumn born calves been sold.also i am always on the look out for better cows and heifers as in the end of the day they pay the bills , a good cow costs the same to keep as a bad cow on this farm.

vincenzolorenzo · 28-01-2011 12:35PM

Never heard of anyone putting bales in a pit before this week. First of all I came across this on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgFhly4b59s

I'd imagine that was very advanced thinking for 1955. Also some lovely footage to look at.:)

I never thought round bales would work. Surely air would get trapped between the bales and cause spoilage? I'd definitely like to hear a bit more about that

Tora Bora · 28-01-2011 01:18PM

reilig wrote: »

One of my biggest expenses lies with buying feed for cattle. I go through between 30 and 40 ton per year. I creep feed heavily in late summer and autumn and I keep half of my weinlings over the winter to be sold in February and March - they also get ration. Reducing the amount of ration that I feed will have a direct effect on my weinling prices.

What do people intend to do, what are your plans???

A neighbour, producing great weanlings, off mainly Lim X cows. AI bred, lim calves and BB. He feeds serious meals though. He was telling me few days ago, he kept a bundle of 5 for a trial run, with minimal creep feed just to figure out if heavy feeding really was paying him.
He figures he has €40 more on average margin wise from the lot which did not get heavy creep feeding.
December / January born animals. Sold October. He is planning cutting total creep feed back by more than 60% this year, and if cost keeps rising as it is now, he will cut further.
Thats just one opionion I heard, from a guy who does his sums carefully.

T

5live · 28-01-2011 01:43PM

leg wax wrote: »

i have been on 2 farms in the last 3 months both in wexford and i have seen silage saved in bales but covered like a pit, both farms were doing it this way for years ,straight away i was concerned about wastage, but after looking at the bales in the pit i have to say i was very impressed, i can see myself saveing 3000euros on 700 bales.i am going back in two weeks on way home from carnew mart to check the bales again before i make up my mind.

How do they separate the net/twine from the bales before feeding? Its hard enough with wrapped bales sometimes but it must be near impossible on squashed bales. I would be interested in it if the net was easily removed

reilig · 28-01-2011 01:45PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

A neighbour, producing great weanlings, off mainly Lim X cows. AI bred, lim calves and BB. He feeds serious meals though. He was telling me few days ago, he kept a bundle of 5 for a trial run, with minimal creep feed just to figure out if heavy feeding really was paying him.
He figures he has €40 more on average margin wise from the lot which did not get heavy creep feeding.
December / January born animals. Sold October. He is planning cutting total creep feed back by more than 60% this year, and if cost keeps rising as it is now, he will cut further.
Thats just one opionion I heard, from a guy who does his sums carefully.

T

I have said on several threads this year that my autumn calved weinlings that got very heavy creep feedings left a lot less money than the spring calved weinlings who only get a small amount of creep. This year, however, was the first year in a good many that lighter calves (that received little or no creep feeding) sold well. I wouldn't bet my house on this being the case next year. But who knows.

leg wax · 28-01-2011 03:26PM

reilig wrote: »

I have said on several threads this year that my autumn calved weinlings that got very heavy creep feedings left a lot less money than the spring calved weinlings who only get a small amount of creep. This year, however, was the first year in a good many that lighter calves (that received little or no creep feeding) sold well. I wouldn't bet my house on this being the case next year. But who knows.

the guys who had the grassland walk in waterford last year are doing blues for export like me and have now came to the same conclusion as me ,they kept their calves until sept.and put 125 kilos of extra weight on the animals and made on average 300 euros less per animal.across all the 52 bulls he lost 15000 euros plus all that he would have saved on have not to basically haveing to feed the cow + calf for 3 months. if you look up you tube suckler ai quality made easy the exporter in this clip bought all my stock at the mart and he wants more of them in april - june.

BeeDI · 28-01-2011 06:22PM

leg wax wrote: »

the guys who had the grassland walk in waterford last year are doing blues for export like me and have now came to the same conclusion as me ,they kept their calves until sept.and put 125 kilos of extra weight on the animals and made on average 300 euros less per animal.across all the 52 bulls he lost 15000 euros plus all that he would have saved on have not to basically haveing to feed the cow + calf for 3 months. if you look up you tube suckler ai quality made easy the exporter in this clip bought all my stock at the mart and he wants more of them in april - june.

Any problems with summer mastitis on cows dried off late spring early summer?

leg wax · 28-01-2011 06:32PM

BeeDI wrote: »

Any problems with summer mastitis on cows dried off late spring early summer?

no

Birdnuts · 28-01-2011 06:40PM

reilig wrote: »

All reports are that prices across the board are going up. We'll get more for our cattle, sheep and milk.

Heard on Bloomberg today that Cattle numbers in the US have hit a 55 year low with prices going sharply the other way in the last 10 months. Should be good times for dry-stock people here if they play their cards right going forwards:)

reilig · 28-01-2011 07:59PM

Birdnuts wrote: »

Heard on Bloomberg today that Cattle numbers in the US have hit a 55 year low with prices going sharply the other way in the last 10 months. Should be good times for dry-stock people here if they play their cards right going forwards:)

Irish farming papers have relayed the same information for several months now. Worldwide beef production has dropped. Big players like the brazilians are trying to target "more profitable" agricultural production. With our green image, our plentyful supply of grass amd our proximity to major markets, we are in a prime position.

Several agricultural economists are also predicting a world food shortages over the next 20 years and their papers can be found all over the internet with a simple google search. China has changed from being a net exporter of rice to being a net importer because a lot of the land and the cheap labour has been soaked up by industry. They have to be a target for our food products in the future.

Your couple of acres could be very valuable yet I tell ya

5live · 28-01-2011 08:07PM

reilig wrote: »

Irish farming papers have relayed the same information for several months now. Worldwide beef production has dropped. Big players like the brazilians are trying to target "more profitable" agricultural production. With our green image, our plentyful supply of grass amd our proximity to major markets, we are in a prime position.

Several agricultural economists are also predicting a world food shortages over the next 20 years and their papers can be found all over the internet with a simple google search. China has changed from being a net exporter of rice to being a net importer because a lot of the land and the cheap labour has been soaked up by industry. They have to be a target for our food products in the future.

Your couple of acres could be very valuable yet I tell ya

Are those the same predictions dusted off from 2008 and edited slightly to bring them up to date, i wonder. Edit And is 2012 going to be 2009 again?

BeeDI · 28-01-2011 09:17PM

Have to hand it to farmers. Give them ten years of diabolical income, followed by a few months of fairly good prices, and he is ready to bull the world with unbridled optimism.:D:D

reilig · 28-01-2011 10:06PM

Jasus lads, don't get carried away. You need to have a bit of optimism - otherwise its time to put all your land into forestry. At least you'll have a guaranteed income for a few years.

Seriously though, if you didn't think and hope that there might be a good future in farming, why would you bother?? Someone had a thread on here about the future of farming and several regular posters commented on how they hoped to give up the day job in the future.

If you're feeling depressed and think that's there's no future, maybe you should have a read of this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feel-Good-Factor-Patrick-Holford/dp/1405509309

He was just on the late late . . . . very interesting

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Birdnuts · 29-01-2011 09:32AM

reilig wrote: »

Irish farming papers have relayed the same information for several months now. Worldwide beef production has dropped.

I was aware prices were rising for several month, I was just surprised at the state of the US herd - must be down to drought etc.

reilig · 29-01-2011 09:48AM

Birdnuts wrote: »

I was aware prices were rising for several month, I was just surprised at the state of the US herd - must be down to drought etc.

Rather than a forced reduction in production caused by drought, the US herd reduction was a choice of the farmers. Quite simply, they can import beef cheaper than they can produce it. There is more money to be made from growing crops - the last 2 years have seen worldwide have a predictable rise. Also, the US has also passed out brazil in the production of ethanol. Brazil was the world leader up to 2008. USA has also seen an increase in Dairy production. Combined, all of these factors have lead to the reduction of teh state herd

Birdnuts · 29-01-2011 10:58AM

reilig wrote: »

Rather than a forced reduction in production caused by drought, the US herd reduction was a choice of the farmers. Quite simply, they can import beef cheaper than they can produce it. There is more money to be made from growing crops - the last 2 years have seen worldwide have a predictable rise. Also, the US has also passed out brazil in the production of ethanol. Brazil was the world leader up to 2008. USA has also seen an increase in Dairy production. Combined, all of these factors have lead to the reduction of teh state herd

I don't know the exact % of the national herd in Texas but that state has been suffering a prolonged drought till recently - the other factors are of course more and more significant and will continue the trend. Stocks linked to dairy products are also booming which suggest the price of milk in the US has also moved sharply higher in the past year

JohnBoy · 31-01-2011 11:58AM

I do wonder about china,

They're growing at a phenomenal rate alright, but they're also farming for themselves on a whole new level.

They're buying up a lot of land in east africa and putting in the irrigation systems needed to work it to it's fullest. Food security is very important to china, I do wonder how long before they start exporting their surplus food that they're growing in other parts of the world?

Just something I wonder about.

reilig · 31-01-2011 12:22PM

JohnBoy wrote: »

I do wonder about china,

They're growing at a phenomenal rate alright, but they're also farming for themselves on a whole new level.

They're buying up a lot of land in east africa and putting in the irrigation systems needed to work it to it's fullest. Food security is very important to china, I do wonder how long before they start exporting their surplus food that they're growing in other parts of the world?

Just something I wonder about.

I may be wrong, but I alway understood that China were buying up the land in Africa in order to reduce the amount of food that they have to import (or pay to import). They have seen such a population growth in the last few years. Combine this with all of the land that they have lost to development and the huge tracts of land that they have lost to pollution that will not grow any crops for hundreds of years and they need an awful lot of land for crops. There was an article about it in the Sunday Indo last year. They had reached a milestone where they could not grow enough rice to feed their growing population and had, over the space of 5 bears, changed from being a net exporter to a net importer of food. Nutritional develpments within china has seen the stable diet of china change also from rice to more nutritious food such as chicken, pork and beef - all of which are helping to increase the life expectancy.

JohnBoy · 31-01-2011 12:30PM

Exactly my point, I don't think they'll be a huge market for very long, in ten years time they'll be self sufficient again. the food mightn't be produced in china, but it will be produced by china, and on land that wouldn't otherwise be supplying the world markets

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