Are they alot of young people not trying hard enough for work?

speedboatchase · 26-01-2011 02:04PM

Everyone's views on this are going to be purely anecdotal but yes, a lot of people I know who are unemployed don't have much drive to do much about it. If you're living with your parents and not paying any rent (or a tiny bit of rent), for a lot of people their isn't much incentive to pound the pavement with CV's in-hand if you're on the dole. Also, the more mates they have that are out of work the more free time they spend with them and both mates' predicaments seem normalised. I've two very close friends who haven't worked in nearly two years and one would come down the country once a week (I moved to a diff county to take a new job, he wanted to come along and look for work down there), collect his dole and head back home on the bus that night or the next morning

daenerysstormborn3 · 26-01-2011 02:26PM

Speaking as someone who spent the past 4 months commuting 5 hours daily let me add my two cents on the comments people have made on commuting.

I live just outside Waterford City and commuted to Baggot Street in Dublin City for 4 months. I was up at 5am and didn't get home until 9pm. Depending on whether the trains were actually running to schedule, more often than not I didn't get home until nearly 10pm. The bus service was no use to me because I had to be in work at 9am and the bus didn't get to Busaras until around 8.45. My train ticket every week cost nearly €150, add on top of this bus fares and/or taxi fares because the train regularly (and by regularly I mean at least three times a week) got in late and my employer was not very understanding if I was a few minutes late because of something out of my control. When the weather was bad during November and December and the trains were severely effected, I didn't get home until 11pm some nights. This was after being on a freezing cold train for over 4 hours and going home to get straight into bed and up at 5am the next day.

Unfortunately I only have my provisional bike license so I can't travel on the new motorway which means that driving time would be relatively similar to the train as well as petrol costs and the additional costs of wear and tear on my bike.

Mr. Loverman · 26-01-2011 02:48PM

newmug wrote: »

Enjoy your career on the dole:D

I'd love to be on the dole :pac: but unfortunately I work for a living!

Every morning I ask myself why...

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 03:08PM

junipergreen wrote: »

They're going to get the money anyway, at least spending it that way they're pumping it back into the economy and the government coffers. They could be saving every penny of the taxpayer's money under their mattress instead - what good would that be doing the economy?

or we could reduce it to a state where they can't afford to buy smoke and drink?

Limerick Bandit · 26-01-2011 03:11PM

ntlbell wrote: »

or we could reduce it to a state where they can't afford to buy smoke and drink?

And take it off the people who cant afford to pay rent and buy food too?

junipergreen · 26-01-2011 03:21PM

ntlbell wrote: »

or we could reduce it to a state where they can't afford to buy smoke and drink?

Who are you to judge what's an acceptable way for people to spend their money? I found out not an hour ago that I didn't get a job because I was overqualified - if I decided that I would like to go out and spend the remainder of this week's dole money on drowning my sorrows, who are you to tell me that I shouldn't? If I decided to go shopping for new clothes instead - just as useless in the grand scheme of things - would that be acceptable? Or paying for a car that I don't really need because I live in the city and there's public transport - would that be acceptable?

Limerick Bandit · 26-01-2011 03:38PM

junipergreen wrote: »

would that be acceptable?

No it would NOT! now go out and have a pint for yourself

junipergreen · 26-01-2011 03:45PM

Limerick Bandit wrote: »

No it would NOT! now go out and have a pint for yourself

If I didn't have rent to pay this week I'd be necking a bottle of vodka right now :mad:

JENNYWREN19 · 26-01-2011 04:20PM

junipergreen wrote: »

If I didn't have rent to pay this week I'd be necking a bottle of vodka right now :mad:

If I wasn't skint myself I'd send you a bottle of vodka. It's bad enough being out of work without being told you're not meant to enjoy yourself as well

JENNYWREN19 · 26-01-2011 04:22PM

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I'd love to be on the dole :pac: but unfortunately I work for a living!

Every morning I ask myself why...

Don't fool yourself. If you've got a mortgage and/or a family to support it's no joke

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 05:10PM

Limerick Bandit wrote: »

And take it off the people who cant afford to pay rent and buy food too?

I think they call it means testing.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 05:13PM

junipergreen wrote: »

Who are you to judge what's an acceptable way for people to spend their money? I found out not an hour ago that I didn't get a job because I was overqualified - if I decided that I would like to go out and spend the remainder of this week's dole money on drowning my sorrows, who are you to tell me that I shouldn't? If I decided to go shopping for new clothes instead - just as useless in the grand scheme of things - would that be acceptable? Or paying for a car that I don't really need because I live in the city and there's public transport - would that be acceptable?

No it wouldn't be acceptable and if the SW payments were adjusted accordingly most people wouldn't be able to afford to make those choices.

I don't mind what people spend their SW payments on really, as long as they don't whine when it's been reduced as they're obviously "overpaid"

junipergreen · 26-01-2011 05:36PM

ntlbell wrote: »

No it wouldn't be acceptable and if the SW payments were adjusted accordingly most people wouldn't be able to afford to make those choices.

I don't mind what people spend their SW payments on really, as long as they don't whine when it's been reduced as they're obviously "overpaid"

Are you ok with people having their wages slashed left, right and centre even though the cost of living has hardly changed at all?

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 05:43PM

junipergreen wrote: »

Are you ok with people having their wages slashed left, right and centre even though the cost of living has hardly changed at all?

I think if you look at the increases over the years and inflation the SW has always been well ahead of the curve.

Even with the decreases when taken deflation into account over all they're probaly about 2-3% better off this year than previous ones. A lot of costs hav reduced depending on your individial circumstances.

If we're talking about SW "wages" I'm happy for them to be slashed to a point where they do what they're designed to do. provide people as a stop gap with a very basic standard of living.

foot/shelter/clothes

junipergreen · 26-01-2011 05:54PM

ntlbell wrote: »

I think if you look at the increases over the years and inflation the SW has always been well ahead of the curve.

Even with the decreases when taken deflation into account over all they're probaly about 2-3% better off this year than previous ones. A lot of costs hav reduced depending on your individial circumstances.

If we're talking about SW "wages" I'm happy for them to be slashed to a point where they do what they're designed to do. provide people as a stop gap with a very basic standard of living.

foot/shelter/clothes

So basically you want to prevent people from being homeless and not to starve? After working and paying taxes until the recession kicked in, I think I'm entitled - yes that's right, entitled - to expect a little more than to avoid being homeless and starving.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 06:03PM

junipergreen wrote: »

So basically you want to prevent people from being homeless and not to starve? After working and paying taxes until the recession kicked in, I think I'm entitled - yes that's right, entitled - to expect a little more than to avoid being homeless and starving.

Sense of entitlement seems to be the main problem, you look like a good example of it.

People seem to think that because they paid taxes they're entitled to them. You don't pay tax so you can take it back at a later point, people seem to think the the I in PRSI is their own personal Income protection plan they can dip into.

If someone has been working for many years I would expect they were prudant enough to have 6-12 months wages saved in an emergency fund. I'm also more than happy for people who have worked X amount of years to have a % of their earnings as part of their SW payment for x amount of months.

But people whining about the amount of money they're getting when the complaints are they can no longer throw away money on drink/smokes/late's etc people need to get a grip and have a look at what's going on in this country. we can no longer fund ourselves and people want to be pampered while they're out of work?

come of it.

Dale Parish · 26-01-2011 06:08PM

I'm 18 and I agree with OP in a majority of cases. I know a fair amount of people 4-5 years older than me and being honest, most of them are just layabouts using the "recession" as an excuse to not bother and get a job. Not interested in getting work experience either. They spent most of their time at the moment drinking, smoking weed, playing Xbox (which tax payers pay for btw) all day long or floating around town. There is 3 people in my 6th year group who work part time and 5 others (including myself) who do work experience in our spare time. Over the last 2 years numerous people have dropped out of school so they can collect "their" €200/week and follow the collective.

junipergreen · 26-01-2011 06:28PM

ntlbell wrote: »

Sense of entitlement seems to be the main problem, you look like a good example of it.

People seem to think that because they paid taxes they're entitled to them. You don't pay tax so you can take it back at a later point, people seem to think the the I in PRSI is their own personal Income protection plan they can dip into.

If someone has been working for many years I would expect they were prudant enough to have 6-12 months wages saved in an emergency fund. I'm also more than happy for people who have worked X amount of years to have a % of their earnings as part of their SW payment for x amount of months.

But people whining about the amount of money they're getting when the complaints are they can no longer throw away money on drink/smokes/late's etc people need to get a grip and have a look at what's going on in this country. we can no longer fund ourselves and people want to be pampered while they're out of work?

come of it.

You must be quite the ascetic if you think that asking for a little more than your food and shelter is asking to be pampered.

Let's take it to the next level:

'Can you believe those unemployed people? They want to eat meat. Can you believe that? They should consider themselves lucky that they can afford potatoes. If I had my way they'd eat nothing but porridge and stale bread.'

How far do you want to take it with your "basic" level?

junipergreen · 26-01-2011 06:36PM

ntlbell wrote: »

Sense of entitlement seems to be the main problem, you look like a good example of it.

People seem to think that because they paid taxes they're entitled to them. You don't pay tax so you can take it back at a later point, people seem to think the the I in PRSI is their own personal Income protection plan they can dip into.

If someone has been working for many years I would expect they were prudant enough to have 6-12 months wages saved in an emergency fund. I'm also more than happy for people who have worked X amount of years to have a % of their earnings as part of their SW payment for x amount of months.

But people whining about the amount of money they're getting when the complaints are they can no longer throw away money on drink/smokes/late's etc people need to get a grip and have a look at what's going on in this country. we can no longer fund ourselves and people want to be pampered while they're out of work?

come of it.

And what exactly do you think the point of PRSI is if not to help people out in this kind of situation? It's shared risk. I lose my job, you help me out. And when you need to have a heart transplant because the one you have has turned to stone, then I help you out.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 07:07PM

junipergreen wrote: »

You must be quite the ascetic if you think that asking for a little more than your food and shelter is asking to be pampered.

Let's take it to the next level:

'Can you believe those unemployed people? They want to eat meat. Can you believe that? They should consider themselves lucky that they can afford potatoes. If I had my way they'd eat nothing but porridge and stale bread.'

How far do you want to take it with your "basic" level?

You can eat very healthily on very little, food is one thing that has dropped a lot over the last two years with lidl/aldi/tesco basically in a race to the bottom you can well very cheaply. butchers a doing enough meat that would last a single person over a month for 20e. that's 5e a week.

So no need for rediclous porridge and stale bread comments.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 07:09PM

junipergreen wrote: »

And what exactly do you think the point of PRSI is if not to help people out in this kind of situation? It's shared risk. I lose my job, you help me out. And when you need to have a heart transplant because the one you have has turned to stone, then I help you out.

Exactly, to help out, a stop gap, it's not to keep the standard of living you're used to while out of work. No one minds helping others out. and if someone is willing to help me with out with a few meals a day keep me warm and a place to sleep. I'm more than happy.

Currently the country is pretty much bankrupt, so as much as ?i'd like to keep pampered spoiled idiots who lived through nothing but the good times of the celtic tiger in late's,mocha's and the latest uggs. we cannot afford it anymore.

junipergreen · 26-01-2011 07:40PM

ntlbell wrote: »

You can eat very healthily on very little, food is one thing that has dropped a lot over the last two years with lidl/aldi/tesco basically in a race to the bottom you can well very cheaply. butchers a doing enough meat that would last a single person over a month for 20e. that's 5e a week.

So no need for rediclous porridge and stale bread comments.

There's nothing ridiculous about it, it's a perfectly logical extension of what you're saying. It's just a matter of scale.

It's the same 'blame the victim' nonsense that always gets spouted. If the dole was a tenner a week there would be plenty of people (you would be among them I'm assuming) arguing that it was too much.

Also, do you understand that slashing the dole to a bare minimum would cause another round of job losses and compound the problem? Your issue with the unemployed would appear to be punative and principle-driven rather than based on economic principles.

Limerick Bandit · 26-01-2011 08:28PM

ntlbell wrote: »

so as much as ?i'd like to keep pampered spoiled idiots who lived through nothing but the good times of the celtic tiger in late's,mocha's and the latest uggs. we cannot afford it anymore.

So are you calling 400K people who are out of work "pampered spoiled idiots"

veryangryman · 26-01-2011 08:39PM

scheister wrote: »

this is one statment i'd go further with and say a good lot of them when they are in work dont try even when they have a job. It seems to be abarely working to make the drink money for the weekend or socialize rather then anything else

110% except for correction

veryangryman · 26-01-2011 08:43PM

Limerick Bandit wrote: »

So are you calling 400K people who are out of work "pampered spoiled idiots"

At least 50% of them...yes. If you want me to back up that statement...

100K have not worked even during the boom
Another 100K or so are either down on their luck or just werent dynamic enough to do something about their situation and looked for government to sort them out

Myself? Got up off arse and did something. Its this survival instinct that i think alot of people just havent got because (shock horror) they have indeed become pampered, spoiled, and indeed, idiots.Country owes them nothing, i repeat, nothing.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 08:58PM

Limerick Bandit wrote: »

So are you calling 400K people who are out of work "pampered spoiled idiots"

a percentage of them, yes.

JENNYWREN19 · 26-01-2011 09:05PM

ntlbell wrote: »

I think if you look at the increases over the years and inflation the SW has always been well ahead of the curve.

Even with the decreases when taken deflation into account over all they're probaly about 2-3% better off this year than previous ones. A lot of costs hav reduced depending on your individial circumstances.

If we're talking about SW "wages" I'm happy for them to be slashed to a point where they do what they're designed to do. provide people as a stop gap with a very basic standard of living.

foot/shelter/clothes

Social welfare isn't a stop gap for a lot of people any more that's the problem

Westwood · 26-01-2011 10:05PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Speaking as someone who spent the past 4 months commuting 5 hours daily let me add my two cents on the comments people have made on commuting.

I live just outside Waterford City and commuted to Baggot Street in Dublin City for 4 months. I was up at 5am and didn't get home until 9pm. Depending on whether the trains were actually running to schedule, more often than not I didn't get home until nearly 10pm. The bus service was no use to me because I had to be in work at 9am and the bus didn't get to Busaras until around 8.45. My train ticket every week cost nearly €150, add on top of this bus fares and/or taxi fares because the train regularly (and by regularly I mean at least three times a week) got in late and my employer was not very understanding if I was a few minutes late because of something out of my control. When the weather was bad during November and December and the trains were severely effected, I didn't get home until 11pm some nights. This was after being on a freezing cold train for over 4 hours and going home to get straight into bed and up at 5am the next day.

Unfortunately I only have my provisional bike license so I can't travel on the new motorway which means that driving time would be relatively similar to the train as well as petrol costs and the additional costs of wear and tear on my bike.

This is unreal any reason why you cant stay in dublin monday night to thursday and travel back friday after work? €150 a week on trains? surely you can pay for accomadation for 4 nights at least.

I agree with comments about the majority on the dole as pampered. cut it in half and watch them work!!! and it wouldnt be a bad idea to cap immigration they're still focking coming in by the boatload everyday I see it.

daenerysstormborn3 · 26-01-2011 10:21PM

Westwood wrote: »

This is unreal any reason why you cant stay in dublin monday night to thursday and travel back friday after work? €150 a week on trains? surely you can pay for accomadation for 4 nights at least.

I agree with comments about the majority on the dole as pampered. cut it in half and watch them work!!! and it wouldnt be a bad idea to cap immigration they're still focking coming in by the boatload everyday I see it.

Going slightly off topic but no, I wasn't able to stay in Dublin. I'm no longer commuting like that (and hopefully will be able to get a job closer to home) so it's no longer an issue, I was just trying to demonstrate to posters who think people should take any job they can get regardless of location that it's not always doable.

newmug · 26-01-2011 10:31PM

junipergreen wrote: »

Also, do you understand that slashing the dole to a bare minimum would cause another round of job losses and compound the problem? Your issue with the unemployed would appear to be punative and principle-driven rather than based on economic principles.

Haha! You're some tulip. Explain that one will you?

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Going slightly off topic but no, I wasn't able to stay in Dublin. I'm no longer commuting like that (and hopefully will be able to get a job closer to home) so it's no longer an issue, I was just trying to demonstrate to posters who think people should take any job they can get regardless of location that it's not always doable.

You demonstrated perfectly that not only can it be done, but thats the reality nowadays! For those jobseekers who actually are spoiled, take note. THIS is the norm you are expected to deal with.

Are they alot of young people not trying hard enough for work?

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