How come its networking in London and cronyism in Ireland.

25-01-2011 01:58PM #1

Had a very interesting discussion with someone about this recently.

When anyone looks for advice about emigrating to the London one of the first thing people will advise is to join a GAA club in London because the networking will help you get a job.. fair enough you might think.

but

If someone dose the same thing in Ireland its cronysim and jobs for the boys, its not what you know its who you know etc.

Why the difference?

stephendevlin · 25-01-2011 02:03PM

It's always who u know,...

enda1 · 25-01-2011 02:03PM

When you get a job its networking.

When someone else does its cronyism.

ejmaztec · 25-01-2011 02:04PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Had a very interesting discussion with someone about this recently.

When anyone looks for advice about emigrating to the London one of the first thing people will advise is to join a GAA club in London because the networking will help you get a job.. fair enough you might think.

but

If someone dose the same thing in Ireland its cronysim and jobs for the boys, its not what you know its who you know etc.

Why the difference?

There isn't any difference.

Sykk · 25-01-2011 02:06PM

It's an Irish sport, so when you play it there it's a big deal and you become part of a tight knit community. When you play it here you're like the average joe soap, it's no big swing.

Typical social outlook.

Donal Og O Baelach · 25-01-2011 02:07PM

For the same reason you can wear shamrock in London on Paddy's day and be proud of yourself - but if you do it here you just look like a tit.

Wompa1 · 25-01-2011 02:10PM

Who goes to London without a job? It's not a very cheap place to loaf about!

ejmaztec · 25-01-2011 02:11PM

There's probably no point trying to find a job through a GAA connection in the UK, as you'd probably end up with an Irish boss. Most of the people that I know, who've worked for Irish bosses in the UK, didn't like being stitched up one bit, and only improved their situation by getting a job with anyone but.

orourkeda · 25-01-2011 02:16PM

Whats in a name?

Rabble Rabble · 25-01-2011 02:18PM

The whole of English Society is based on Networking.

Cronyism - when done by the lower middle classes.
Networking - the rich and public school classes.

Rabble Rabble · 25-01-2011 02:19PM

BTW, getting a leg up in the job market as an immigrant within your own immigrant group is common, and has little to say about the real power of elite networking.

Fremen · 25-01-2011 02:21PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Had a very interesting discussion with someone about this recently.

When anyone looks for advice about emigrating to the London one of the first thing people will advise is to join a GAA club in London because the networking will help you get a job.. fair enough you might think.

but

If someone dose the same thing in Ireland its cronysim and jobs for the boys, its not what you know its who you know etc.

Why the difference?

There's a difference between getting a job in a pub through networking and getting a ministerial position through networking. Or a thirty billion euro bailout, for that matter.

Rabble Rabble · 25-01-2011 02:30PM

Fremen wrote: »

There's a difference between getting a job in a pub through networking and getting a ministerial position through networking. Or a thirty billion euro bailout, for that matter.

Quite. Worrying about working class immigrant "networking" is nonsensical.

As for the Irish rich networkers, no need for them to immigrate.

pickarooney · 25-01-2011 02:32PM

I got a job in London once through a friend, as a cronyism engineer.

Boolean(0) story.

rainbowdrop · 25-01-2011 02:37PM

Why have I never heard the word 'cronyism' before?

Lumen · 25-01-2011 02:42PM

rainbowdrop wrote: »

Why have I never heard the word 'cronyism' before?

Are you congenitally deaf?

That would explain it.

stovelid · 25-01-2011 02:50PM

Because the builder mate of your dad that gets you a start on a buidling site isn't an elected representative that saddles every other fucker and their childrens with billions of euro of debt as a result of helping you out.

strobe · 25-01-2011 02:54PM

Well first you have to ask yourself OP why the people that use the word 'networking' do so.

This is why.

It is because cringe inducing arse lickers do not like to admit to being brown nosing testicle ticklers as they realise that being a pretentious toe sucking worm is a pathetic and detestable thing to be.

This is why this vile, stomach churning, five dollar crack whore like behaviour which is lacking even the facade of self respect is referred to as 'networking' by the scampering, scuttling little bottom feeding gee weasels.

squod · 25-01-2011 02:58PM

rainbowdrop wrote: »

Why have I never heard the word 'cronyism' before?

Welcome to Ireland. Presume you're a tourist, if so please spend freely.

humanji · 25-01-2011 03:44PM

I'd have thought the two terms don't mean the same.

Networking is getting contacts. Cronyism is abusing your relationship with a contact in order to secure position or advantage for yourself that you would not have otherwise obtained.

Rabble Rabble · 25-01-2011 04:05PM

humanji wrote: »

I'd have thought the two terms don't mean the same.

Networking is getting contacts. Cronyism is abusing your relationship with a contact in order to secure position or advantage for yourself that you would not have otherwise obtained.

Very little difference. If we accept that networking gets you a job because you know someone, or because you wouldnt otherwise have got the job, then it is the same as cronyism.

humanji · 25-01-2011 04:45PM

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

Very little difference. If we accept that networking gets you a job because you know someone, or because you wouldnt otherwise have got the job, then it is the same as cronyism.

But networking is just getting contacts. Networking doesn't guarantee you a job. It just opens up a possibility to you. Cronyism guarantees you a job because of the strong relationship you have with those offering it.

For example, say joining the GAA club in London. You get to meet people, some of whom may be in the same line of work as you. They may even be able to give you names or introduce you to other people. This is networking. You now have a list of contacts and no relationship with them.

Cronyism begins when you form relationships with these contacts and it's because of that relationship, and only because of it, that you get a job etc.

That's how I'd define them, anyway.

Cool Mo D · 25-01-2011 05:00PM

humanji wrote: »

But networking is just getting contacts. Networking doesn't guarantee you a job. It just opens up a possibility to you. Cronyism guarantees you a job because of the strong relationship you have with those offering it.

For example, say joining the GAA club in London. You get to meet people, some of whom may be in the same line of work as you. They may even be able to give you names or introduce you to other people. This is networking. You now have a list of contacts and no relationship with them.

Cronyism begins when you form relationships with these contacts and it's because of that relationship, and only because of it, that you get a job etc.

That's how I'd define them, anyway.

Can you explain what the point of networking is, if you can't use the relationship to help get a job?

As far as I can see it, cronyism is giving your friend a job despite knowing that they are either not suited or qualified for it, or so that you can get them to give you another favour back in future.

If you appoint a friend to the job, because you like them, and know that they are capable, and you don't want to take a chance on an unknown stranger, that is not cronyism. Since people are much more likely to give a job to someone they like and know, rather than take a chance on a stranger, you should try and meet as many people you can who might give you a job.

That logic works for interviews too, if you are the interviewers favourite candidate, you will probably get the job over someone with a better CV.

Donal Og O Baelach · 25-01-2011 05:16PM

Lumen wrote: »

Are you congenitally deaf?

Is congenitally deaf when you can't hear people talking bollox?

humanji · 25-01-2011 05:31PM

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Can you explain what the point of networking is, if you can't use the relationship to help get a job?

Well, networking is the act of gaining contacts. It, in and of itself, has nothing to do with getting a job. It's just meeting people. Cronyism is when you gain something simply because of who you know, and only that (just like you described, ie ability means nothing).

The two are different actions. One is meeting people and the other is promotion due to relationships. That's not to say networking can't lead to cronyism, it's just not guaranteed to.

prinz · 25-01-2011 05:38PM

IMO networking is down to making contacts etc and gaining an audience to showcase your talents/merits. Perhaps nothing comes of it.

Cronyism is gaining and audience and benefitting because of who you are/who you know not what you know.

Millicent · 25-01-2011 05:41PM

humanji wrote: »

I'd have thought the two terms don't mean the same.

Networking is getting contacts. Cronyism is abusing your relationship with a contact in order to secure position or advantage for yourself that you would not have otherwise obtained.

Exactly. The job I want in the future isn't known for opening its doors to anyone interested. Consequently, I will have to network, much as I hate to do it. Hopefully, someone will remember me and I will be notified of jobs where I can be hired on my merits.

Cronyism doesn't involve getting ahead on your merits, buoyed by having contacts who can inform you of job developments. Cronyism means looking after people who may be under-qualified, simply because you're in an "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" sort of relationship.

Rabble Rabble · 25-01-2011 06:19PM

Millicent wrote: »

Exactly. The job I want in the future isn't known for opening its doors to anyone interested. Consequently, I will have to network, much as I hate to do it. Hopefully, someone will remember me and I will be notified of jobs where I can be hired on my merits.

Cronyism doesn't involve getting ahead on your merits, buoyed by having contacts who can inform you of job developments. Cronyism means looking after people who may be under-qualified, simply because you're in an "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" sort of relationship.

No necessarily. The back does not have to re-scratched.

In any case I would say that i still think that cronyism is generally applied as a pejorative to the apirational lower middles and not to the top. All nepotism is a form of cronyism, yet is generally understood as normal. Picking people based on the old school tie, and other biases, is a sort of cronyism. Which is why despite the rhethoric I think England to be cronyist.

Interesting map from wiki on this very subject. Ireland is clean as a whistle.

nosey rosie · 25-01-2011 06:22PM

Political power isn't handed down through families in London, the way it is in Ireland. Brian Lenihan ( son of a famous political father ) was my lecturer in Evidence Law back in the nineties. He didn't show up half the time; beyond doubt, the worst lecturer I had in four years at T.C.D. Too busy earning a fortune as a barrister to fulfill his commitments to paying students. The last person, with his attendance record, you'd expect to be running the country in future...

Yet years later there he is, and the brother too, both competing for the leadership. Its not what you know but who you know in Ireland :mad:

Cool Mo D · 25-01-2011 06:30PM

humanji wrote: »

Well, networking is the act of gaining contacts. It, in and of itself, has nothing to do with getting a job. It's just meeting people. Cronyism is when you gain something simply because of who you know, and only that (just like you described, ie ability means nothing).

The two are different actions. One is meeting people and the other is promotion due to relationships. That's not to say networking can't lead to cronyism, it's just not guaranteed to.

So what exactly is the point of getting these contacts if you will never use them for anything? Getting a job because you know someone is not cronyism. Getting a job only because you know someone is.

pigeonbutler · 25-01-2011 06:50PM

nosey rosie wrote: »

Political power isn't handed down through families in London, the way it is in Ireland. Brian Lenihan ( son of a famous political father ) was my lecturer in Evidence Law back in the nineties. He didn't show up half the time; beyond doubt, the worst lecturer I had in four years at T.C.D. Too busy earning a fortune as a barrister to fulfill his commitments to paying students. The last person, with his attendance record, you'd expect to be running the country in future...
:mad:[/QUOTE

Cronyism can't get someone into the Dáil. He was elected in 1996, 1997, 2002 and 2007 by the people of Dublin West. It's an insult to them to suggest they voted that way only because of his surname.
Yet years later there he is, and the brother too, both competing for the leadership. Its not what you know but who you know in Ireland]

How come its networking in London and cronyism in Ireland.

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